If you aren't going to do that, then there's no point in arguing, because you haven't agreed on what you're arguing about yet.

Absolutely true. I'd love clarification from both sides.

My point is that science describes the laws of the universe. Those laws may or may not have been put in place by a creator, but that point is irrelevant. Whether we're determining natural law of the rules put in place by that being is irrelevant. In fact, they may well be the same way of stating the same thing.

In addition, any potential creator does not rig the results of this reality.

My ultimate point is that those of you that beileve that you can depend on said creator to provide you with things, physical or psychological, are mistaken and setting yourselves up for failure. Depend on yourself, not the boogeyman.