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#255968 - 10/05/2005 22:56 Classical music on radio vs. empeg - VolAdjust
FireFox31
pooh-bah

Registered: 19/09/2002
Posts: 2494
Loc: East Coast, USA
After 625 songs in my Pop playlist, I finally switched to Classical to hear the Mendelssohn Violin Concerto on my empeg. I know it's just range compression and all, but it's so quiet! I had to increase volume to the unheard of -5db from the typical -17.5db. The dynamic range was very drastic. I had to crank the empeg to 0db to hear the pianissimo solo passages.

This is not at all how the piece sounded on my radio a few mornings earlier. Sure, they played a different recording, but still. Yet when I dropped the volume to -10db and turned on VolAdj to Low, the dynamic range matched what I heard on the radio. VolAdj gave readings between 1.5 and 2.87 (the max for Low setting?), so it wasn't adjusting too drastically.

So, I wonder, do radio stations use dynamic range compression when they send their music? Probably more likely for classical and jazz pieces than average pop radio. I drive to work every morning, windows down (yes, even often in snow and rain), and can hear radio classical music rather well at a slightly increased volume.

Is there a trick to getting my empeg Classical music to sound comfortably audible? Sure, use VolAdj, but maybe something when I rip the CDs? Despite reading the FAQ about this, I still can't imagine that my classical CDs ever hit the volume peak even once. Maybe once per CD and every track (movements of larger works) are normalized relative to that one instance. Heh, I'd take a clip or two if it'd just "sound louder". Sorry, Tony, if I'm causing you a headache.
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FireFox31
110gig MKIIa (30+80), Eutronix lights, 32 meg stacked RAM, Filener orange gel lens, Greenlights Lit Buttons green set

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#255969 - 10/05/2005 23:18 Re: Classical music on radio vs. empeg - VolAdjust [Re: FireFox31]
BAKup
addict

Registered: 11/11/2001
Posts: 552
Loc: Houston, TX
Quote:
So, I wonder, do radio stations use dynamic range compression when they send their music? Probably more likely for classical and jazz pieces than average pop radio.


Yes, even more so with classical and jazz, FM radio only has so much dynamic range, so it has to be compressed. I'll let someone who knows more about radio give details, since they are very fuzzy right now to me.
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--Ben
78GB MkIIa, Dead tuner.

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#255970 - 11/05/2005 06:12 Re: Classical music on radio vs. empeg - VolAdjust [Re: FireFox31]
andym
carpal tunnel

Registered: 17/01/2002
Posts: 3995
Loc: Manchester UK
Quote:
So, I wonder, do radio stations use dynamic range compression when they send their music?


Like you wouldn't believe, most stations will have at least a 5 band compressor plus AGC across their outputs. Companies like Omnia, Inovonics, Orban are the most popular.
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Cheers,

Andy M

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#255971 - 11/05/2005 08:39 Re: Classical music on radio vs. empeg - VolAdjust [Re: andym]
pgrzelak
carpal tunnel

Registered: 15/08/2000
Posts: 4859
Loc: New Jersey, USA
I am waiting for Doug (tanstaafl) to respond here. He has an extensive classical library and can give some pointers...
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Paul Grzelak
200GB with 48MB RAM, Illuminated Buttons and Digital Outputs

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#255972 - 11/05/2005 13:16 Re: Classical music on radio vs. empeg - VolAdjust [Re: pgrzelak]
tfabris
carpal tunnel

Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31570
Loc: Seattle, WA
Doug has a competition-class stereo, and hates dynamic range compression. He merely turns his stereo up incredibly loud.

Actually, he works at a radio station, too, and will tell you that, yes, all radio stations use generous helpings of multiband compressor/limiters.
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Tony Fabris

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#255973 - 11/05/2005 21:54 Re: Classical music on radio vs. empeg - VolAdjust [Re: tfabris]
FireFox31
pooh-bah

Registered: 19/09/2002
Posts: 2494
Loc: East Coast, USA
Interesting, thanks for the tips. I never realized my daily dose of classical radio was so compressed. Oh well, it still sounds good... as good as it can as I drive with my windows down.

I'm starting to ponder reripping my entire collection, so any tips on ripping classical will help. Those year 2000, AudioCatalyst, 128kbps rips just aren't holding up any more.
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FireFox31
110gig MKIIa (30+80), Eutronix lights, 32 meg stacked RAM, Filener orange gel lens, Greenlights Lit Buttons green set

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#255974 - 12/05/2005 00:04 Re: Classical music on radio vs. empeg - VolAdjust [Re: tfabris]
tanstaafl.
carpal tunnel

Registered: 08/07/1999
Posts: 5539
Loc: Ajijic, Mexico
Doug has a competition-class stereo, and hates dynamic range compression. ... he works at a radio station, too, and will tell you that, yes, all radio stations use generous helpings of multiband compressor/limiters.


Uhhh, yeah. What he said...

tanstaafl.
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#255975 - 12/05/2005 02:06 Re: Classical music on radio vs. empeg - VolAdjust [Re: tanstaafl.]
canuckInOR
carpal tunnel

Registered: 13/02/2002
Posts: 3212
Loc: Portland, OR
It seems that Tony isn't satisfied with being a FAQ bot -- he's starting to replace board members now, too!

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#255976 - 12/05/2005 10:21 Re: Classical music on radio vs. empeg - VolAdjust [Re: FireFox31]
rob
carpal tunnel

Registered: 21/05/1999
Posts: 5335
Loc: Cambridge UK
Around here the commercial classical stations compress the hell out of everything, but the BBC don't seem to be nearly as bad. I guess it helps that the BBC are the DAB broadcaster left with decent bandwidth!

Rob

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#255977 - 13/05/2005 01:12 Re: Classical music on radio vs. empeg - VolAdjust [Re: rob]
FireFox31
pooh-bah

Registered: 19/09/2002
Posts: 2494
Loc: East Coast, USA
To sidetrack this thread; bandwidth? Does dynamic compression have something to do with radio bandwidth? The term "bandwidth" always confuses me. Is it a data transmission rate? Is it a ... length? Is it a broadcast radio frequency?

/me goes to check wikipedia.org before he gets wiki'd (instead of FAQ'd)
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FireFox31
110gig MKIIa (30+80), Eutronix lights, 32 meg stacked RAM, Filener orange gel lens, Greenlights Lit Buttons green set

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#255978 - 13/05/2005 09:38 Re: Classical music on radio vs. empeg - VolAdjust [Re: FireFox31]
andym
carpal tunnel

Registered: 17/01/2002
Posts: 3995
Loc: Manchester UK
Rob is talking about DAB (ie Digital Radio) so he means bandwidth as in data rate. In audio bandwidth terms DAB should theoretically pass everything up to 20k depending upon the coder used to generate the MP2 stream whereas FM brickwalls at 15k.
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Cheers,

Andy M

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