I'm wondering. Because whatever car I purchase will undoubtedly have some type of head unit in it, I need to do something with that. The car I'm looking at also does not have a 4" DIN so I don't have the option of just adding the empeg, although I'd like that.

So I'm curious. I'm considering getting this professionally installed. Do you think the installer would buy the existing head unit off of me or at least give me a reduced price? And if I don't bring it to an installer, what would I do with the replaced unit?

In case you're wondering, I'm looking into buying a Honda Odyssey. I can't seem to find out whether or not it has an amp though. Anyone know? By the way, this will be a very cool automobile if we can get it for the price we want. Just imagine: an empeg below a navigation system (ahhhh, my dream gadgets in one place!!!

So I'm curious. I'm considering getting this professionally installed. Do you think the installer would buy the existing head unit off of me or at least give me a reduced price?

Not if it's a plain-old factory radio. Professional stereo shops have no interest in radios that say "Honda" on them. About the only place you could pawn off one of those is at the swap meet next to the car thieves.

what would I do with the replaced unit?

Save it. When you trade in or sell the car, you can put the factory radio back in. Improves the resale value.

I'm looking into buying a Honda Odyssey. I can't seem to find out whether or not it has an amp though.

Rarely, if ever, do factory stereos include an external amplifier. Plan on getting one. And while you're at it, upgrade the factory speakers to some really nice ones...

Tony Fabris (http://www.jps.net/tfabris)
Empeg #144

If you're really determined to sell it, ebay would probably be your best bet.

But, before you go counting all your chickens before the barn door is closed (or something like that...), I seem to remember hearing or reading something to the effect that Honda radios are very much integrated into the electronics of the vehicle itself, and that this may not be as easy a swap as you are hoping. Or maybe it was difficulty with aftermarket remote-start/keyless entry/alarm systems....

Tony just put an empeg into his new Accord... he would probably know more about this than I.

tanstaafl.

"There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch"

I seem to remember hearing or reading something to the effect that Honda radios are very much integrated into the electronics of the vehicle itself, and that this may not be as easy a swap as you are hoping... Tony just put an empeg into his new Accord... he would probably know more about this than I.

There was nothing special about the factory radio system in my Accord. Just like any other factory car stereo... unscrew the factory radio, unplug the harness. An adapter harness from Crutchfield allowed me to access the factory speaker wires without splicing directly into the car's wiring.

Note that I can't stress enough how helpful it is to have the Crutchfield "master sheets" for your make and model of car. These things are a work of art, I tell you. It showed exactly how to dismantle my dash and doors to get to the stereo and the speakers. Right down to careful instructions on how to pry out the clock assembly by using a soft cloth to wedge the screwdriver against (so you don't mar the dash bezel). Fantastic stuff.

Of course, I didn't get the "high-end" factory stereo with the car, just the single-DIN-size tape player. I don't know what the radios are like in the... what was it... the "Odyssey"? But if they're anything like the Accord, there's a pretty standard DIN mounting space available, and you'll probably have no trouble, especially if you're paying a professional to do it.

I had to drill a couple of holes in the sleeve to securely mount it to the brackets, and I had to cut a small piece of black plastic to cover a 1cm gap around the Empeg sleeve, and running the cables from the dash to the trunk (for the amps and the subwoofer) wasn't a walk in the park, but there's nothing special about any of that- it was all pretty standard aftermarket installation stuff.

In fact, I'm pretty impressed with how the Empeg looks in the car. The black of the plastic on the dash bezel perfectly matches the black of the Empeg handle. I keep thinking I'm going to take pictures and document the install here on the BBS, but I've been pretty lazy lately... would anyone really benefit from such a documentation project, or would I just be wasting time and energy to do it?

Or maybe it was difficulty with aftermarket remote-start/keyless entry/alarm systems...

Now THAT I wouldn't know about. The car comes with a keyless entry/alarm system already, and I'm not planning on replacing that.

Tony Fabris (http://www.jps.net/tfabris)
Empeg #144

A great many factory stereos are security coded into the vehicle - if you remove them won't work in another car. At least, that's the case in the UK.

Rob

Here's a new dilemma. The navigation system of the car basically "talks" to the radio head unit.

This is a conversation between me and some people on an Edmunds bulletin board:

#182 of 187: Audio Unit Question (dignan17) Fri 19 May '00 (08:32 PM)

Hi. Tomorrow (Saturday the 20th), I will go to a
Maryland dealer to put the down payment on my very
own Honda Odyssey EX w/ Navigation System :)
I'm getting it at MSRP, but hey, for a June 25th
delivery date, I don't mind.

I have a question though about the audio system.
Here's what I want to do.

I want the empeg car MP3 player. For those of you
who don't know, this is a DIN head unit designed
and manufactured in England. You can find more
info about it here: www.empeg.com (this is an old
site. they are coming out with a new player and
the new site with most of that info is scheduled
for June). I'm not getting the CD changer in this
automobile, so I won't have too much that I don't
use.

My question is: Will I be able to uninstall the
Honda radio and install this one without much
difficulty? I've been told that Honda radios are
somewhat integrated into the vehicle, and diffucult
to uninstall. I'm also worried about the
navigation system. Does anyone know if it has
controls for the stereo? I seem to remember other
navi systems I've seen that did control the stereo.

So basically my question is whether or not it is
difficult to take out the Honda head unit (and how
much, if any, it is used with the navi). The
installation for the empeg is the same as any
regular 2" DIN head unit, so that's not a problem
if the audio system on the Odyssey is normal.

Also, what does everyone think of the stereo
system in their Odyssey? I'm mainly interested in
how well the speakers perform, but if this plan
doesn't work, I'll be interested in the quality of
the head unit it'self.

Thanks for your help!

(ps-for those who have the navigation system, is
it really as cool as I think it is?)



#183 of 187: Nav system response to dignan17... (capecodder) Sat 20 May '00 (05:12 AM)

If you live in an area for which the Nav system
provides detail, it is nothing short of a wonder.
We just moved to Cape Cod and it is a treat to find
things so simply. For example, if you realize you
need to get something from a hardware store (which
seemingly happens every day when you've just
bought a house) you just ask it where the nearest
hardware store is to the location you happen to be.
Same if you're hungry and are looking for a
restaurant. Or your Ody is thirsty and needs a gas
station. Works great and has a very good user
interface.

Now for the bad news. My sense is that there's a
pretty good degree of integration between the Nav
and the radio (which is adequate but nothing more,
by the way), in that the Nav "talks" to you via the
radio, even to the point of shutting down the
front speakers when the sweet little voice is about
to tell you to make a "slight right turn in 500
feet." I'd check very carefully before replacing
the head unit with an after-market unit.



#184 of 187: Audio Unit Question (dignan17) (arbarnhart) Sat 20 May '00 (01:21 PM)

I have the LX, so you are getting "heresay" info,
but...

The EX has steering wheel mounted audio controls
and apparently very few systems other than Honda
factory systems work with them.

Do you know how cheap CD recorders are now? You
might want to look into that. There are conversion
programs out there that will put your downloaded
music onto CDs, and recordable CDs are very cheap
in quantity. I would give this some serious thought
before I tore into the dash of a new van to take
out a component that is pretty tightly integrated
into the NAV and the steering wheel controls.





#185 of 187: About Stereo Placement... (dignan17) Sat 20 May '00 (09:29 PM)

Thank you for your responses capecodder and
arbarnart. Those are things to think about.

capecodder. Do you have the CD changer? Even if
not do you know where it goes? Is it a standard 2"
DIN? (the size of the stereo) Can you control the
basic functions of the stereo via the navigation
system (radio controls, tape controls (is there a
tape deck in it?))?

My idea is that I could put the stereo where the
CD changer goes and put the empeg into the slot for
the stereo. The empeg it'self has the means to
support a secind head unit so the actual
installation in those terms wouldn't be too
difficult.

The issues therefore, are:
1-level of control via the navigation system
2-whether the internal wiring can accomodate the
downward displacement of the factory installed head
unit
3-whether the location available for a CD changer
installation can accomodate a normal head unit.


Also, does anyone know if there is an amp that
comes with this van?

Thanks for all your help.

I have found out who makes the navigation system. There is an Odyssey web page with this info:

"The Honda Satellite Link Navigation system uses GPS satellites, a gyroscopic compass and a DVD-based map database to determine location, direction, and approximate speed. The system is very similar to the one used in 2000 Acura models, and is the first DVD-based system, covering the entire continental US on one disc. The hardware is manufactured for Honda (with custom Honda features) by Alpine (http://www.alpine1.com/promo/nav_0_1.html), and the map database comes from Navtech (http://www.navtech.com/), who produces the map database for virtually all navigation systems that provide turn by turn directions to the driver. The system has an integrated TFT touch screen color display that allows menu choices, shows maps, upcoming turn information, and other information."

THe unit is an Alpine OEM. The stereo routes into the navigation unit and the navigation unit cuts off the sound. When you install the empeg, you can do the same thing, route the empeg outputs into the Alpine. I think just about any stereo shop should be familiar with the technique.

Calvin

Thanks, that's what I had hoped. I had initially thought that the nav system controlled some of the stereo functions, making me worried that it wouldn't be possible to install the empeg.

A couple more questions. Where in the "circuit" does the amp go? directly after the empeg? The nav?
How much power do I need in the amp? I saw one at Circuit City for about $80. It appears to be all I need. The factory head unit has 80W of output, and I believe that there are 4 speakers and 2 tweeters (although there may be 6 spekers. it's a long vehicle).

Thanks for all the help! I only had 3 things keeping me from buying an empeg. Getting a car (very important), getting the money (on my way), and getting it shipped (out of my control :)). Now I need: the car delivered, my paycheck to come in, and the empeg to start shipping.

I think it goes like this Stereo -> Line Out -> Nav -> Line Out -> Amp(s) -> Speakers.

That way the Nav can do cool stuff like mix the navigation voice into the music. Or mute it.

Thanks for the help.

One last issue. The stereo controls on the steering wheel. I assume these will become useless. Do I assume correct? Or do these controls not have anything to do with the installed head unit, but rather something further down the line?

Of course, there's always the option that I put the factory installed head unit under the driver's seat, but I doubt all the wiring required to connect to that would reach that far.

I'm really hoping this works out, because I've had my mind set on getting this cool product for months and months, as I know most of you have. (any idea when they'll start shipping?)

The stereo controls on the steering wheel. I assume these will become useless. Do I assume correct? Or do these controls not have anything to do with the installed head unit, but rather something further down the line?

The steering wheel controls are usually proprietary and only work with the factory stereo. So your assumption is, for the most part, correct.

However, there is hope.

You could check out the product line at PAC (anyone have that link again?) which includes an interface for various vehicles which will turn the steering wheel buttons into IR remote signals, allowing you to use aftermarket stereos with your steering wheel controls.

Better yet, remember that the Empeg, even when docked in the car, has a serial plug in the back. It's designed to respond to ASCII commands on the serial port for things like volume and track change. Intrepid persons on this BBS have already created little interface boxes which will convert steering-wheel-buttons into these ASCII commands. Go to the BBS forum titled "Projects" and check out the threads. I think this will be my next project, too.

___________
Tony Fabris

You could check out the product line at PAC (anyone have that link again?) which includes an interface for various vehicles which will turn the steering wheel buttons into IR remote signals, allowing you to use aftermarket stereos with your steering wheel controls.

Pacific Accessory Corporation can be found at: http://www.go2pac.com/news.htm

The above link takes you to the page about steering wheel controls.

tanstaafl.



"There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch"

I saw one at Circuit City for about $80. It appears to be all I need.

Please don't do that. You have a $2000 empeg, and you're gonna run it through a $80 amplifier... If sound quality (as opposed to just quantity) is at all important to you, and it should be if you're spending the kind of money we're talking about here, you need better than an $80 amplifier. Now, bigger (i.e., more powerful) is not necessarily better when it comes to amps (unless you're running boxes full of subwoofers and trying to get maximum SPL), but as a general rule more expensive is better. Do some comparison shopping, check out the specifications, and be prepared to spend at least $200 on a quality amplifier. You will regret it if you do otherwise.

I believe that there are 4 speakers and 2 tweeters.

OK, but more important than the number of speakers is the size (and quality) of the speakers. To have sound quality that will make you really happy, you will need at least one 10" subwoofer. You don't need big boxes full of giant speakers filling up the back of your Odyssey; but you do need to find some clever, unobtrusive place to put at least a single 10. I promise you you will not regret doing this.

The empeg is a really neat toy -- but it is only one piece in the audio chain. Try and build the whole system to the same standards of quality as the empeg, and you will have a system to really brag about.

tanstaafl.

"There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch"

You could check out the product line at PAC (anyone have that link again?) which includes an interface for various vehicles which will turn the steering wheel buttons into IR remote signals, allowing you to use aftermarket stereos with your steering wheel controls.

Better yet, remember that the Empeg, even when docked in the car, has a serial plug in the back.

OK, I know I'm new to this, but isn't there a mix in connections? I don't exactly understand how to connect an IR port to a serial port.

You wouldn't have to plug it into the port of the empeg, if it's IR, then you position the transmitter in front of the empeg unit so that it can talk to the IR sensors on the EMPEG head unit

Proud owner of #161

I suspected those were two different options. Just wasn't clear on that.

There's one problem with the IR thing though. Wouldn't that look pretty ugly having wiring coming out of the steering wheel? There is virtually no information on that web page for their product (it's poorly designed. no real specifications and more importantly, no prices). I assume that you connect the remote wires to this thing. But I have no idea what happens after that. What, do you just have this box sitting somewhere in your car so it can "ses" the IR port, with wires trailing into your dash? That seems kinda strange to me.

Also, could you explain, in simple terms, how I would go about finding/installing software for the empeg to translate these signals?

There's one problem with the IR thing though. Wouldn't that look pretty ugly having wiring coming out of the steering wheel?

I think you're putting too much thought into this. I'm sorry I even brought up the PAC thing... It looks like their interface will only work with American cars, anyway, and you're getting a Honda. But just to clarify... It's a pretty simple concept- you open the dash and plug their interface into the factory wiring harness. Then there's a tiny little infrared LED on the end of a long extension wire. You run that wire somewhere in your car that's unobtrusive but still shines out enough so that it activates the aftermarket radio (it doesn't even necessarily have to be line-of-sight to the radio- infrared can sometimes bounce off of objects in the car and still work). Then, when you press the steering-wheel radio buttons, this thing converts those proprietary button-pushes into infrared signals which are compatible with aftermarket stereos.

In other words, it works like this:

Steering wheel--->PAC Interface--->IR LED- - -(IR Signals)- - ->Radio

This is all completely unrelated to the Empeg. Although such a scheme would work with the Empeg, provided that the interface rendered Kenwood-style IR signals. You don't need to do any programming for the Empeg or anything. Seems like a lot of trouble to go to, though (and PAC's interface only works for American cars anyway). What this world really needs is a standard for steering wheel controls so that aftermarket radios can use the steering wheel buttons on every car.

A more straightforward approach for the Empeg would be to skip the IR signals altogether and wire an interface directly into the RS-232 serial plug on the back of the unit. It would go like this:

Steering wheel--->RS-232 Interface--->Empeg

This is a project that's been successfully done, and you can find its documentation at Big John's page.

This is a more involved project because the electronics are not trivial. But the result is that the RS-232 interface renders serial commands that the Empeg is already programmed to respond to, so again, there's no programming needed on the Empeg side.


___________
Tony Fabris