I have DirecTV and I just ordered one of these PVRs yesterday, but I am now having second thoughts about which brand I should have went with. I'm sure there are those of you out there that probably have opinions on which product/service is better now and going forward. My decision is pretty much locked, but I need reassurance my decision was okay and therefore I welcome your thoughts. Thanks,

Duane

Tivo is my personal favorite, but that recommendation is based off of their SA model, not the Directivo.

I can't see trusting Microsoft to write stable code.... Those two words should never be in the same sentence.

Their previous venture (the dishplayer from DishNetworks) had some REAL damn buggy code, in my opinion. Damn thing would reboot on changing channels about once every 50 changes. Very annoying.

I'm sure that they have fixed that particular bug in the UltimateTv, but I personally can't see trusting ANY code that came from Mickeysoft.

They've always been far too concerned with Marketing than coding.

I haven't used microsoft's recorder, but I'm extremely happy with my Tivo.. (actually just got it working again by adding a network card for it so that it can use my broadband to get data... I don't have a phone line in my house so that was my only option..)
-mark

This space used in memory of the victims from 09/11/01

TiVo all the way. Wish Lists work better, and better all around. Also if you buy a DirectTiVo (DirecTV w/ tivo built in) and the newest software release you can record 2 shows at once while watching a third, at least so I've read. I've currently for a Standalone unit and love it to death, the 2nd I can get a DirecTiVo you better belive I'm walking down that road.

Future Blue MK2 20 GiG owner.

TiVo rules. I have a Sony SAT-T60 and Philips DSR6000 DirecTiVo units. Both have the newest software that enables dual tuner. TiVo is the best TV related invention since the TV itself. And, dual tuner TiVo is almost as revolutionary.

One thing to note about UltimateTV is that in the on-screen guide, you get 2 ad banners shoved down your throat. Thanks MicroShaft!

While DirecTiVo units are generally slower than a regular DirecTV receiver, UltimateTV units are slower still. By slow I mean changing channels and navigating menus.

There are pros to UltimateTV though. AFAIK UTV can encode analog inputs to the hard drive and UTV is able to do picture in picture. The first is not important to me as I get my locals through DirecTV. The second is compelling, and it is likely that TiVo would not be able to implement it on the current hardware.

UltimateTV is expensive (I think $500). I got my Philips unit for $99 NEW alla this thread. If there was ever a time to get TiVo it is now!

-Rob R
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12GB MK2 Blue 090000736 (6166 in the queue)
10GB "Backup" MK2a Blue 030102953

After I turned my ReplayTV into a coaster last May (hard disk upgrade gone bad, somehow fried the modem, cost $199 plus postage to ReplayTV to have it fixed), I needed an immediate solution for PVR duties; since I have DirecTV, and don't much like Microsoft, I chose DirecTiVo. After using it for a few months, and upgrading it to have a ridiculous amount of recording time (about 150 hours), I can wholeheartedly recommend it - especially given the prices of the units at this point. The only downside is that my area (Los Angeles) doesn't have a UPN on DirecTV yet, so I still use my ReplayTV to record "Buffy the Vampire Slayer" and "Enterprise". :)

I haven't played with the UltimateTV, so I don't know how it compares; but from what I've heard, it takes a somewhat different approach to the problem. Certainly its software is far less mature, and there have been several serious bugs over the past few months as they've been doing upgrades. I do know that, like the DirecTiVo, it cannot record any input other than DirecTV's satellite signal - neither UltimateTV nor DirecTiVo has an MPEG encoder built in.

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Daniel M. Zimmerman, Caltech Computer Science
Mk.2 #060000058, 36GB
Mk.1 #00101, 10GB

I have to cast my vote for Tivo as well. The units are fairly cheap, and you can upgrade your hard drives to ridiculous size very easily. With the new tools out, you can even upgrade your already upgraded hard drives. Currently I only have a 60+ hour Tivo, but am adding a 100GB HD to it in a couple of weeks.

-Trevor

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Mk 2, Green 12GB, Tuner 080000349

My preference would be to go with Tivo but not because of the service it provides. I hate the idea of having to pay $4.95 for "Tivo Service" and the fact that they are watching everything you watch to sell you stuff.

What I do like is that hackability of the units. One of my friends works for Tivo and sent me a bunch of links on how to open up and hack the crap out of it.
10 Hours of record time not enough? Open it up and add a 60 Gig drive so you now have 240 Hours. Don't like them snooping you? Write a small ksh script to stop sending extra info. They basically are just Lynux boxes with MP2 decoders on them. When I get back to work on Monday, I will forward the links to you.

Also, I try to be an anti-Microsoft kinda guy so buying UltimateTV just wouldn't apeal to me. I also don't like Msoft knowing what I watch.

Greg

I hate the idea of having to pay $4.95 for "Tivo Service" and the fact that they are watching everything you watch to sell you stuff.

Tivo service is $9.95 monthly, $99 yearly and $249 lifetime. Your viewing habbits are anonymous, but DirecTV will give you a number to call if you want to opt out.

-Rob R
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12GB MK2 Blue 090000736 (6166 in the queue)
10GB "Backup" MK2a Blue 030102953

TiVo, definitely, purely due to the hackability aspect of it.

I have a stand alone tivo. I bought the "20 hour" version (which in actuality is a 6 and a half hour version.. TiVo likes to give the recording time based on the worst-quality encoding bitrate), and already have a 100GB drive on order. Some people have gotten their TiVo's up to about 260 hours (worst quality) encode time, which is insane.

It runs linux. I have ssh running on mine on my LAN. I can grab the MPEG-2 streams from the hard drive onto my PC, and reencode them to whatever format I want (SVCD, VCD, etc) and back up that way.

AFAIK, the DirecTiVo units haven't been hacked in this way yet. You can grab the streams, but since they are basically saving the raw feeds that DTV broadcasts, it is missing some MPEG-2 data that is required by most encoders/players to mess with it. Plus, at least with my SA unit, I at least know that it would be illegal for Tivo to send DirecTV my viewing habits.

Hackability.... if I could install ssh on my coffee maker, I would. :)

(O|||||O)

This is awesome that Tivo units can transfer the MP2 files to a PC. I had read somewhere that the manufacturers were trying to avoid this capability so as to avoid people redistributing programs on the network or something. Are ALL Tivo units capable of this? I would love to get a standalone unit and start recording episodes and putting them on CD... I just thought the manufacturers had been "smarter" about enabling transfer from the PVR to a PC. Guess not. :)

-Tony
MkII #554

Yes, it seems all are able to do this now. Check the link below.

TiVoNET

-Rob R
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12GB MK2 Blue 090000736 (6166 in the queue)
10GB "Backup" MK2a Blue 030102953

TiVo is clearly superior and I have no bias against MS. With ReplayTV vs. TiVo I'll concede that it's a matter of personal preference (though I strongly prefer TiVo). But with UltimateTV I don't think it's even close.

See this thread for all the reasons why.

-Dylan

Like I said, the TiVo stand alone units all can do this. It isn't necessarily something that TiVo intended to happen. The DirecTiVo units do not support this (yet? hopefully?) as the DirecTiVo units just store the raw DirecTV MPEG-2 stream on the hard drive, which is not standard MPEG-2. So if you are even able to Extract it to a hard drive, you won't be able to watch it/re-encode it with any "traditional" MPEG tools. Give it some time, I'm sure someone will figure it out with the DirecTiVo units.

(O|||||O)

Yeah I don't have DirecTV and I won't be getting it because they don't carry the Philadelphia sports channel. So I'm stuck with whatever the cable company is offering. Maybe I'll look into getting one of the standalone units used or something.

-Tony
MkII #554

TiVo, definitely, purely due to the hackability aspect of it.

My (and a friends) slowly ongoing hack project for this has been trying to get my hands on a PCI satelite TV card. DishNetworks was working on one to be used in Gateway Destination computers, but that fell through, and trying to find one of the Adaptec cards from that deal is near impossible. I'm seeing a few possible cards being released in Europe, but none show definite support for the encryption used here.

My ideal solution would be a web based control center for setting things to record, and a simple interface on the TV to watch things, or on my laptop, etc... The web based part exists, just not a card to tie into it.

This was my biggest concern with TiVo. I would hate to invest in a product where the future of the company is uncertain, especially when the product's functionality relies on the existance of that company to continue. I know it's probably nothing to worry about, but with the way things have been going recently, nothing can be taken for granted.

Duane

I wouldn't be too concerned.. IF Tivo does close their doors, their customer base is loyal and knowledgable enough to continue with some sort of their own hacked service - in fact they would have probably done this already if Tivo the company wasn't there :)
-mark

This space used in memory of the victims from 09/11/01

Yep, the knowledge of the database that the guide is stored in is already known. People already maintain DirecTV PPV (channels 101-199 on DirecTV) guides that you can download each week or so, because the TiVo service doesn't include them. You can import them into your own DB relatively painlessly too.

(O|||||O)

You know, if the Tivo is THAT hackable, I'm surprised someone hasn't hacked it to control my 4DTV satellite receiver yet. That's the only thing stopping me from getting a Tivo.

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Tony Fabris