I've started playing with my Sony wired remote (attached via the new tuner). Is there documentation regarding what each button on the remote is supposed to do?

I notice that if I use the remote to switch functions (i.e. tuner FM -> tuner AM -> aux -> player), then the tuner forgets the name of the preset station it is set to (the frequency stays where it was, but the preset name is gone).

Also, I've noticed inconsistent behavior. The "decrease volume" button works correctly every time, but I have to tap on the "increase volume" button several times before the empeg seems to recognize it. Although I realize it's possible that the remote is defective, the behavior seems to be more indicative of the empeg simply not noticing the signal sometimes. The same is true of the "next/previous track" buttons. Is there a way for me to test the remote itself (or possibly some debug output I can view on the empeg)?

I wonder if you've got some kind of a wiring problem. This might be related to your volume drop-outs you reported in the other thread?

___________
Tony Fabris

It's certainly sounding like I've got wiring issues.

I'd like to know if anyone else has the station preset name problem with the remote, though (I doubt that's a wiring issue).

And I still want to know what all the buttons are supposed to do!

There's a text file on the CD that came with the tuner that lists all the button mappings. This was supposed to go into the printed documentation. But it didn't.

--
David
// I'm probably not speaking on behalf of empeg/SONICblue here...

Wait until 1.04, this will be out soon and extends the ranges of acceptable adc values for stalk button presses (this is the only change). This could be the problem you're seeing.

Hugo

I have no idea what Hugo's comment means in Enlish :) but I am having the same problem increasing the volume with the stick - there is a slight delay.

Also, I really wish there was an easy way to change presets with the stick instead of jumping into the menus. I am getting a bit frustrated with the UI now. Each interface (stick, remote & empeg controls) has it benefits and shortcomings but none does the job quite well for me.

oh well.

pete

Track up/down should change preset - they do on the front panel. I don't have a stick in my car, so...

If it doesn't, it's a bug - please report it to bugs@empeg.com

Hugo

What Hugo means is that the Sony Remote controller outputs a analog value [its actually output as a resistance which is read/processed as a analog value and changes according to what buttons on the remote are pressed - this keeps the Sony stick remote cheap to make but not necessarily as reliable as say a all digital stick remote would be (if there was such a thing)].

The Tuner module in the empeg then turns this analog value from the stick remote into button presses.

Now the resistance values output by the Sony remote are not always exactly the same for all Sony stick remotes and/or everytime you press the buttons - the resistance changes a bit depending on the weather and other things like temperature etc.

This therefore means that sometimes the empeg will either not see the button press(es) or will see them but return the wrong button(s) presses.
Neither of which is particularly useful in most cases.

Hugos comment about changing the ADC values in 1.04 simply means that the 1.04 software will try and be more forgiving about the range of analog values it allows for each button [within the very real limits of the Sony stick remote] and thus try and be more accurate in working out what button(s) are being pressed to help eliminate the problem of missing or mis-assigned button presses.

Having played with the Sony stick remotes myself on a small microprocessor with a ADC interface I can tell you these Sony remotes are not very consistent all the time with regards to being able to 100% all the time determining the correct buttons being pressed [you can get close e.g. 99.95% but that 0.05% is still annoying!].

As far as the various input devices and their short comings - your comments are correct.

Once the 2.0 release comes out we have been promised that we will be able to have more flexible button assignments for the Sony remote controller according to our own preferences.

I think once you have a reliable [and customisable] stick interface on your empeg you will find that will answer nearly all your common user input requirements.

Short of a full touch-screen interface, no one interface will probably ever be able to do all user input requirements.

Still how many car stereos do you know of that do mp3 playback and support 3 (or more) user interface devices? - the common 3 being the head unit, the remote control and a wired/stick interface [The empeg supports these AND ethernet and serial as well!]

Very few mp3 players can do even 3 interfaces & even fewer do a good job of making them work well in a consistent and usable way.

Usually its often that the interface on the devices is dumbed down to the lowest common denominator [e.g. head unit buttons with remote and other inputs being the same as the head unit buttons].

I'm just glad that there are zillions more functions than buttons on my empeg - I've had plenty of consumer equipment where the number of available functions is severely dumbed down to fit the small number of buttons the device supports and this makes for a truly frustrating device with very limited capabilities and appeal.

So, keep it up Hugo and everyone else.

Maybe one day we will all arrive in the promised land of 100% user definable control of our empegs.

For now, I'll take the (may be) imperfect empeg just as it is over any number of perfect available "real soon now"TM devices.

I know this won't make the 2.0 release but is it possible to have a learn function in the empeg?

you put it into a learn mode and tell it what actions do what function. Maybe a matrix of this could be editable in emplode.

This would allow any irregularities in the controller (stalk or other) to be recorded as the 'normal' output of that device.



Murray
I made a conscious descision in a semi-conscious state

I doubt there will be a mode which allows assignment of more buttons than a standard stalk has - the spacings were already carefully chosen by sony - but post 2.0 definable stalk buttons is a possibility.

Hugo

Ahhhhhh. PRESS DOWN and TWIST!

Thanks!

I've just installed my Sony stalk & am having a similar problems with my rotary controls (MKII). All my buttons work, but the only rotary control that works is the Volume down (but not up). No controls from the Seek/AMS or Preset/Disc work on either the tuner or the player. I've got the 1.03 kernel with the overlay, IRHack, voladj and single drive patches from Riocar.org (excellent work btw) Could installing the stock developer 1.03 kernel help? The post mentions 1.04 (not present at the empeg site). Will this version exist or will I have to wait for 2.0?

Also, I've run my control line right through the rats nest behind my player, could interference contribute (I don't have any undue noise in my system) to the missed commands? Also, the stalk is probably not that warm, as it's been in a box at about 40 degrees Farenheight all afternoon (getting chilly in NH; had snow on the way into work yesterday morning).

Any comments appreciated.


-Zeke

just say you weren't paying much attention...

I had the same issues when I plugged it in, but I noticed that everytime I used it, after a few minutes of playing with it, it would *warm up* to working correctly for everything including volume up and track up ... which previous to this warm up time, wouldn't function at all...

I noticed I could accelerate this *warm up* period by doing a series of tasks on the wired remote .... then once these are completed all works fine ... after softly powering down the player and letting it rest, then turning off the ignition, I could later come out to the car and everything will remain working fine, even days later ... Like the player had to "remember" that it had a remote attached, it needed to softly power down and save it's information ... now I no longer need to do this series of wired remote actions ... ... let me see if I can duplicate those now for you ... :

1. ignition on + player boot
2. power on player via small round button on face
3. attempt to increase track via wired remote (didn't work)
4. attempt to decrease volume via wired remote (works)
5. mute player via wired remote (top dimpled button)
6. power off player via wired remote (bottom round button)
7. power on player via little round button on player face
8. increase volume via wired remote (works)
9. increase track via wired remote (works)
10. softly power down player by holding down little round button of radio face.
11. wait about 15 seconds.
12. power it back up via any means and try track up via wired (works)
13. power down via any means.
14. wait 15 seconds.
15. ignition off.
16 all is normal for remaining trips in the car.

Sounds quite a bit rediculous, but it works for me.

g

--
Rio Car (40Gig) Blue/Red/Green/Amber Face (Looking for 2.0!)
'01 Audi A4 2.8 Quattro

That's INSANE.

I HOPE that the codes that Hugo was working on eliminate this behaviour in 2.0

I was just about to order one of these, but there isn't ANY way in hell I'd do this to get the damn thing working....

Please let us know if the 2.0 beta solves this issue.

That sounds like some crazy ritual that a professional baseball player would go through before batting. Wow. At least there aren't any animal sacrifices or Eye of Newt involved... or are there?

-Tony
MkII #554

Hell, I'll try anything once! God knows I've done weirder rituals trying to make WIndows behave....

-Zeke

just say you weren't paying much attention...

It's not that bad, once I figured it out, I only had to do it once :)

--
Rio Car (40Gig) Blue/Red/Green/Amber Face (Looking for 2.0!)
'01 Audi A4 2.8 Quattro

I've got it all printed out for the AM. I'll let you know if it is strong voodoo.

-Zeke

just say you weren't paying much attention...

Eye of gnewt comes in whenever you've just added an additional hard disk to your empeg and discovered you "did something" which caused "bad things" to happen when trying to boot up the player again.

I almost experimented in human sacrifising to get it working again. It turned out (I hope) to be a loose connection on that short/tight fitting IDE cable ... after the nineth time of disassembly/reassembly it started working again and hasn't failed me since.

I still carry it around like a little baby kitten so as not to jar anything loose (especially that IDE cable), but I think it's fixed for good.

g

--
Rio Car (40Gig) Blue/Red/Green/Amber Face (Looking for 2.0!)
'01 Audi A4 2.8 Quattro

after the nineth time of disassembly/reassembly...

Shame. You could have got a job at the assembly plant.

Murray
Go-Wit-Da-Fro

No go on the sequence outlined. Maybe I should've used a chicken head while doing it...

-Zeke

just say you weren't paying much attention...

That's too bad. I'm pretty sure it has nothing to do with your wiring or the remote itself, which is good.

I recommend turning it on and fiddle with the buttons on the remote that DO work, including mute and power off, as well as the menu system, shuffle, etc.

Then hopefully as in my case, the buttons that don't work will come to life .... if this ever happens, soft power down the player and wait, then power it back up and see if they're still working.

I also noticed that at least for now, the duration for which you hold the command on the remote does matter. A short sharp one doesn't usually work ... You need a firm press, about a 1/4 to a 1/2 second ... from memory it feels like you press in on the word "one" and release on the sylable "sec" out of "one-second".

g

--
Rio Car (40Gig) Blue/Red/Green/Amber Face (Looking for 2.0!)
'01 Audi A4 2.8 Quattro

I did quite a bit of fiddling with it (I've an hour an the highway each way) this morning, with no change. Some of the buttons took a few presses to respond, but I didn't get anything working that wasn't working last night. I also put the heater on & aimed the vent at the stalk, but there was no change in behavior with temperature (it was about 35 degrees when I started the car this morning). I'm sure I'll goof with it more on the way home, but hopefully all will be well in 2.0.

-Zeke

Addendum: At lunch hour the Volume Up started to work, but still nothing that uses the inner rotary control. FWIW
just say you weren't paying much attention...

Edited by Ezekiel on 10/10/01 06:49 PM.

2.0 beta 3 made my stalk work perfectly. I'm one happy camper.

-Zeke

just say you weren't paying much attention...