Check this out !!!! Damn, yesterday Rob V. said the only display he had seen until now that beats the empeg's display is OEL, by Pioneer... Pioneer's new DEH-P900HDD car stereo has OEL, CD-player, AM/FM tuner, 4x50 watt MOSFET amplifier AND a 10Gb HDD AND a MagicGate Memory Stick slot!!!! It has a preloaded CDDB database and supports MP3 CD-ROMs. Other features are auto-equaliser, auto noise leveliser and 13-band graphic equaliser. Damn, now this is serious competition if you ask me.

Of course, in the end, empeg is better.... It's time to start thinking of a MK3

Edwin de Vaan
mk2 rev.7 # 080000263 (queue 1232) 6+20Gb blue/red

Wow, that is pretty serious!

Questions, though:

- I wonder whether the 10 gigs will be upgradable?
- I assume that if you insert a CD, it'll rip it to the hard disk (otherwise what would be the point of putting a CD and a hard disk in the same box)?
- If so, does it let you control the bit rate/quality?
- And if so, what file format does it use for its ripping? (MP3, wma, proprietary?)

Very interesting looking little unit, though!


___________
Tony Fabris

Wow. It's pretty clear what empeg's advantages are over this one... but still... wow. Definitely time to get crankin' on MKIII.


|| loren.cox ||

Yeah, this is the first one that even comes close, IMHO. Nipping at the empeg's heels!

(Of course, it took 'em two years to get there.)

I forget, was there an MSRP in that article?

___________
Tony Fabris

In reply to:

---

I forget, was there an MSRP in that article?

---

No mention of pricing at all in the article but it does look like a very nice piece of kit. I'm sure we'll find out more about it soon enough.

Marcus (beaker)
32 gig (various colours)

Indeed a cool item if orwhen it comes out. What I want to know is how did they cram tuner,HDD,CD player & amps in same unit?

#695 empeg-car Mk2/Green/Amber/Neon Red/Clear/Smoke-12Gig needs tuner,2.x, VR

"No buyers regret"

I like it! It looks like a unit that will sell well with average people. And it has backlit buttons

It mentions an auto eq feature. I wanted to point out that PaulWay on this board was considering building a DSP system which can be read about in the Projects section. I have also considered doing an auto eq specifically for the empeg which played MP3 tones, chirps, etc. through the empeg. The DSP would then send commands (serial or IR) back to change the empeg eq automatically.

I would definitely enjoy a brighter display. Is the OEL sunlight readable? One other empeg project that I am working on is a display interpreter. Takes the commands/data sent to the EL display controller and converts them to VGA or NTSC (TV). A much better way to go than my other TV output device which had serious drawbacks. Also, leaves lower half of screen for a cool spectrum analyzer.

I agree, Pioneers product is serious competition and I think empeg/Sonic Blue should keep one step ahead by blowing them away with features. (Voice Recog. is a good start)

Alex Lear

After reading more on the Organic EL display Pioneer claims it doesn't washout in sunlight, seeing is believing, I haven't seen many displays that don't. It also looks like a expensive item.
The auto-EQ should easily be a doable thing given the mic input.
Seems like Rio/Sonic Blue can only work on one project at a time for now.

#695- Mk2/Green/Amber/Neon Red/Clear/Smoke-12Gig hasTUNER awaits 2.x & VR

"No buyers regret"

Although it was "unveiled at IFA" it was actually shown at CES in January. We believe it falls short in terms of music organisation, and in being so strongly tied into SDMI.

Fitting all that stuff into a 1DIN box isn't so much the issue any more, but it IS an expensive undertaking (because of the cost of shock protected data capable CD mechs). I'll be interested to find out what the SRP will be.

Rob

As we're exhibiting at IFA (and at CES earlier this year) we've already had a good look at it; they've done a good job to cram it all in there! (both the pioneer and sony units have integral fans) I believe the launch is sometime in 2002, and the rumours about the price are in the $2000 range - though as I said, these are just rumours.

Sony were also showing an in-car jukebox at IFA, though theirs wasn't actually operating - the front panel was just a mock-up with a bulb behind it (come to mention it, neither was the pioneer; it was there behind a bit of perspex but the music library was empty as I found by reaching around and pressing buttons ;) ). The sony one uses a laptop cd-rom, which looked a bit flimsy for an in-car unit.

Both the Sony and Pioneer are SDMI compliant and have magicgate memory stick slots; I wonder what restrictions the SDMI stuff will impose...

Hugo

It's about time for Rio to consider MK3 :)

Maybe OEL, new facia with backlit buttons and more proffessional look. I't should be allso cheaper to manufacture in volume for more affordable price. I'ts possible to keep existing users happy with software updates, but possible future clients can easily go for Pioneer.

Does anyone know what the coyright protection is about? Just hearing the phrase "copyright protection" is sure turnoff for me:)



Veiko
veiko@lc.ee

MK1 #317 - 20GB green

Just hearing the phrase "copyright protection" is sure turnoff for me:)

Why? With copyright protection "consumers can enjoy music without having to worry about copyright issues." Heh. Don't you just love it when they do that?

Borislav

Why? With copyright protection "consumers can enjoy music without having to worry about copyright issues." Heh. Don't you just love it when they do that?

Yeah, sure:) The DVD players are allso quit worry free here:) You know some of them has some region specific thing. But in Estonia they sell DVD-s and players designed for different regions as Estonia is sort of between east and west. So it's only two options when buying a dvd, it will work on my player or not.

Veiko
veiko@lc.ee

MK1 #317 - 20GB green

I've had a pioneer DEG-9000R headunit for a year now, with the organic-EL display. It's GREAT. Sharp as a knife, and VERY well viewable, at night AND in direct sunlight! It's hands down the best display in a headunit I've ever seen. If only empeg would use 'em. Oh well, maybe in mk3 (BTW, does anybody know anything about a possible date of release ? This year? Next year? In two years?)

Here are some pics some guy took at CES early this year of the pioneer mp3 unit booth.

Pic 1
Pic 2
Pic 3
Pic 4

We looked at OEL displays; problem is, at the moment only pioneer make anything useful in terms of size (everyone else is in pre-production stage). This is very unusual - even Sony don't make their own LCDs in their car audio products, despite having LCD manufacturing capability.

Pioneer will sell them to us, but they're not cheap and have pixel life problems (early displays had around a 50% failure rate in a year; even the current displays invert themselves periodically in order to equalise pixel life!). Kudos to pioneer for pushing ahead and selling technology which noone else can get ready for the market, though.

In a year or two OEL will be everywhere, when life improves and prices get a bit better. Pioneer obviously have a slight advantage when it comes to cost as they make the displays themselves...

Hugo

Hmm Estonia what kind of language do you speak there??

Finninsh, Russian og Estonian?? Do you understand Russian?

TommyE

We speak Estonian (its a little similar to Finnish and quite many people mostly in nothern Estonia can speak Finnish too). Russian was required second language in Estonian schools when Estonia was occupied by Soviet Union. So most of Estonians speak or at least can understand Russian.

Veiko
veiko@lc.ee

MK1 #317 - 20GB green

So Hugo, I gather from this that you've actually considered using them?
So it's still possible we'll see an OEL display in a future Empeg product?

I can't say I've had problems with pixel life on my headunit. I haven't noticed any dead pixels yet and it's (contrary to what I've said before - time flies) almost two years old. I did notice this inverted display syndrome you mention, but this is simply an option which is easily turned off. I have to admit, the first time I saw this I thought my display was broken. After actually reading the manual (ugh!) this option was turned off fast. I haven't had any problems with my unit since, AND I've already dropped it a few times. (yeah I know...I was blessed with two left hands...)

It's about time for Rio to consider ( . )
new facia with backlit buttons
Yeah. I would love to have the button hack applied to my Mk2, but can't solder that well :(

and more proffessional look
you must be joking!
IMHO the beauty of the MK2 shows in its looks: simple, elegant, functional
To me, that Pioneer is an example of an engineer designed products where it is believed that a good design has been achieved all airplane cockpit's controls have been cramped onto the face of a car radio! I bet that that Pioneer display is *multi* coloured too :( . Too many of these around already.

For me, the looks of the Mk2 fascia fits in beautifully with the concept of the player itself, the superb playlist management, extra's as visuals, and the sheer joy that must have gone in to designing the hardware.

I won't trust any 'car radio, CP/MP3 player, amplifier, CDDB database' for which they haven't worked out a simple user interface.



Henno
mk2 6 nr 6

you must be joking!
IMHO the beauty of the MK2 shows in its looks: simple, elegant, functional
To me, that Pioneer is an example of an engineer designed products where it is believed that a good design has been achieved all airplane cockpit's controls have been cramped onto the face of a car radio! I bet that that Pioneer display is *multi* coloured too :( . Too many of these around already.

I don't say that MK3 should look like Pioneer. Actually i would like it to have even more simple look. I like Sony BlackPanel design when the panel is turned black side out. And i would not want more buttons. And multicolor .. no way. I just think that current facia with grey buttons looks kind of cheap.

Veiko
veiko@lc.ee

MK1 #317 - 20GB green

And i would not want more buttons.

I don't know about the buttons... I like the current minimalistic design but on the other hand I would like more functions to be available (or more easily accessible) without the remote.

BTW, here is the other end of the spectrum (the Bose stereo in Audi TT).

Borislav

I just think that current facia with grey buttons looks kind of cheap

I have never seen an empeg player in real life, so I can't judge.

But this could also be considered a practical feature. Every potential thief (who doesn't know the empeg player) simply won't bother ever breaking into your car to steal it.

Have you read Sven's (aka smu) story about when he left his empeg player in the car secured with a notebook lock I believe. Someone broke into his car, took out another head unit, but left the empeg, even writing a note, asking why he would ever put something this cheap on a chain.

Georg

Yes, we've considered using OEL. The failure rates I quoted were from a dealer I was talking to about the products - ie, these are the display failures from his customers.

I'm not sure if it was pixel life or display driver life, as some failures involved large sections of the screen. They can't be *that* bad, otherwise pioneer would go out of business!

Hugo

Hi.

Here is the link to the story Schorschi is refering to:
http://empeg.comms.net/php/showthreaded.php?Cat=&Board=install&Number=28415&page=1&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=365&vc=1

cu,
sven

proud MkII owner (12GB blue/green/smoked, was #080000113 is #090001010)

Someone broke into his car, took out another head unit, but left the empeg, even writing a note, asking why he would ever put something this cheap on a chain.

That proves it looks cheap. I'm just saying this could be turnoff for wider range of potential customers. Of course real empeg fans consider it as a feature but when Rio wants sell more to the larger target group then then it's not.

Veiko
veiko@lc.ee

MK1 #317 - 20GB green

Hi.

I just feel that I should point out my opinion on the looks of an empeg (MkII that is). I really love the way my empeg looks while in dash, it simply integrates very well with my standard VW dash (you know, this dark grey, if not black plastic with that surface relief that should resemble leather).
Still, the empeg does not look quite as expensive as it is. This is a big plus for me, though it actually seems to be a minus for most people. For me though, I really wouldn't want the empeg at all if it had the looks of that pioneer unit.

cu,
sven

proud MkII owner (12GB blue/green/smoked, was #080000113 is #090001010)

You now I still have a MKI.
The main reason I still have one (appart of i don't really need the new features of MKII) is that i don't like the faceplate of the MKII. I simply love the simple and flourishless faceplate of my MKI.

Daniel
very proud MkI owner (10GB + 30GB amber) #00107

Edited by pache on 31/08/01 04:13 PM.

The main reason I still have one (appart of i don't really need the new features of MKII) is that i don't like the faceplate of the MKII. I simply love the simple and flourishless faceplate of my MKI.

Same here. Actually i would like more smoother one like sony black panel with simple black jog dial or modest buttons but MK1 is quite close, especially with blue screen. I don't like the wing design on MK2. The Pioneer look would'nt be that bad allso when it had black dials and buttons instead of metallic ones and decent one colour screen.

Veiko
veiko@lc.ee

MK1 #317 - 20GB green

I find this interesting. The reason I have my Rio Car now is because of Pioneer. Let me explain. I first heard about Empeg a few years ago when the MK1 was hot and the MK2 was in development. (I still rember the rendered pic of the new face design) I was on the waiting list to get one but when my number came up, I didn't have the funds. Fast forward to the present and after switching jobs 3 times, I'm making quite a bit more money. I went to purchase a new system consisting of one of Pioneers top Head Units, the Premier DEH P930. It lasted exactly 22 days before it malfunctions and ate my CD. When I went to exchange it, the store had just recieved there first Rio Car. I had to have it and I've been very happy since.

Yes, we've considered using OEL.

Is it still an option for a future product (when it gets cheaper), or did the idea got entirely wiped under the carpet?

About the "simple" look of the Empeg. I actually like that simplicity. I'm also not for a headunit which looks like a christmas tree. But I do think it would be a good idea to implement the OEL displays with the empeg player, if only for the higher resolution and the (even more) exclusive look it would get by doing so.