In the early 1990s, we got the parents-in-law a Mac. It's been replaced since then, in 2001, with a $100 PowerMac. Then, about four years ago, I replaced it again with a $100 G3 Blue&White.

Still runs OS9, still works great, and support is perhaps 2-3 telephone conversations a year. Except when the printer hardware died -- that took a little longer to resolve, but OS9 compatible USB printers still exist, thank goodness.

If/when the mother-in-law finally gives in and wants more compatibility with the web and/or email attachments, we're going to put Ubuntu onto the G3, and tell her it's Mac OS/X.

Cheers

Not built in, but you can set up this applescript with a trigger in Quicksilver:

Classilla will apparently help with that...

Sorry, I should have said suckered into paying more if your buying 3 copies. Looks like the family pack upgrades do exist as the part numbers are starting to show up at various online sites. So even if you got the $50 home premium upgrade for 3 systems, MS still managed to get more money out of you compared to the family pack pricing.

Downright deceptive, and not a good way to treat your users. But hey, gotta protect that monopoly somehow.

Alt, F, W.

Well: Alt, F, W, F/Enter

In the short time I've been using Windows 7, I've used the Ctrl+Shift+N shortcut at least a dozen times.

Wow, I can't believe it only took MS some 20 years to create a real keystroke shortcut to create a new folder. And one that uses a decent mnemonic too. I'm not sure how they're going to get people to forget and lose muscle memory for "Alt, F, W, F/Enter" though.

What used to bug me was that navigating context and other menus with the keyboard were used in place of proper keyboard shortcuts. On top of everything, for creating a new folder, this navigation isn't the same when you're on the "Desktop" since its context menu doesn't have the same hierarchy.

But I'll say it again, why on earth would I press "w" to get to a menu item labeled "New?"

I learned all my keyboard shortcuts from back in the days before they had dedicated windows-specific keys on keyboards. What if you've got an old keyboard, or you're controlling a windows remote desktop from a Macintosh or Linux system?

True; it just sounded to me like you hadn't realized you could do that with a keyboard at all.

I thought this issue came up because MacOS doesn't have a similar shortcut. Or was I misunderstanding that post? And I didn't say I used that set of keystrokes myself. I tend to use the mouse to create new folders, which brings me to:


If you right-click on the desktop, you can then hit W, F. What are you talking about?


I'm all with you on that one. I'm not sure why they don't just use "n".

Command-Shift-N, so basically the same keystroke Windows 7 introduced.

Thats usually one of the bigger misunderstandings about the Mac. People assume it's all about the GUI with a mouse, but it's had very consistent keyboard shortcuts well before the Windows key and Windows 95. Though, GUI navigation via the keyboard is not a Mac strength.

You have always been able to create new folders in Mac OS from the keyboard. In Windows I've always used the mouse as well because I don't like navigating the file menu with the keyboard - likely because you don't get the menu item you'd expect you you press keys on the keyboard.

Right-clicking the desktop and then pressing W and then pressing F is not the same thing as pressing ALT,F,W,F which is the point I was trying to make. You have to use your mouse and then the keyboard - which defeats the purpose. Or use the context key, which is not the ALT key, which used to only be available on the right side of the keyboard (probably still is) and then you have to omit pressing F. It's equally non-intuitive as the other key sequence, but it's different, which makes it even a bigger PITA. Non-intuitiveness plus lack of consistency.

Though don't think that I'm trying to say everything's roses in Mac OS. Apple still hasn't gotten their shit together in figuring out multi-selection using the keyboard or mouse. They've somewhat got it in Mail, and we'll see if the new OS brings it elsewhere. Still needs work though, even in Mail.

Like I said, I guess I just misunderstood the post where that new folder issue was brought up.

And technically, Bruno, you said the desktop's "context menu doesn't have the same hierarchy." That is incorrect. Isn't the context menu what is referred to by the right-click on a mouse? That is identical. The file menu is different, and everything about the desktop is handled differently, almost entirely through the context menu. I don't really find that unintuitive because there is no "File" menu on the desktop, so you wouldn't expect that anyway. What's unintuitive was when I was using someone's Mac this past week and for a particular reason I needed to find something analogous to Windows' device manager. Why would I expect it to be on what is essentially an"About" screen?

Man, I really didn't want another religious war when I started this thread. I mostly just hate this debate, which is never going to be settled because it's more subjective than either side wants to admit (which I think is where Tony was coming from).

All I can say is that I'm using Windows 7, I'm happy about it, and I'm happy that you like your operating system of choice.

Matt, I think you're taking things the wrong way and definitely misreading what I was trying to say in both cases. I simply said that the context menu doesn't have the same items as the app menu. This is certainly expected and makes perfect sense. I wasn't arguing that at all. There's nothing bad about that. But it means you can't use exactly the same key sequence to achieve the "new folder" command because you're navigating two different menus.

If you were to record one specific macro it would only work in one place. My point is that this "sequence" is not a keyboard shortcut and not a substitute for one. That's why, as you have found, MS has finally included a real shortcut in Windows 7. That's good news, but not enough to get me to change over any of my XP systems. At home right now I have two Macs (three if you count one that's at a friend's house right now) and two Windows systems. I use both OSes all the time, mostly for different tasks.

Mac OS doesn't really have a "device manager." The System Profiler is an application that gives you details about your hardware and software, but it doesn't allow you to make driver and other changes. It's just a reporting app. Because you can't make any changes on the Mac's System Profiler or general about screen, it's not included in System Preferences. The argument can be made that both are access from "sort of" the same place though. After all, the "System Properties" in Windows is also its "About" window.

I actually enjoy religious wars on this BBS. For the most part, the discussions are interesting and civil and give me interesting information that I wouldn't otherwise get.

It is definitely subjective, however it's easier to talk about when everyone discussing it has experiences with both sides. I've lived with Windows, Mac OS X, and Linux daily for years now. Were as you said it right at the start "Just months after planning a break for the world of Mac, I'm planning on diving further into Windows." If thats what keeps you happy, thats good. It just pains me a little to see that you came really close to making the leap of at least trying a Mac as a personal machine, then backed off and now have issues. Sure, the upgrade situation isn't that big of an issue, but to me, it's one more minor thing that is added to the mountain of issues I see on the Microsoft side. I don't directly want Microsoft to fail, but their bad decisions affect me daily. Be it their horrible security that led to hours of my time wasted when people used Microsoft products to browse these boards, or the bad decisions that lead to frustrations dealing with Microsoft servers at work.

The reason your decision pains me a bit is that it mirrors my situation about 8 years ago. I was a big Microsoft only person, shrugging off Linux and Mac OS. I was happy, even when Windows 98 would blue screen on me. After all, 2000 was right around the corner, and it was so much better. What changed my situation though was wanting to be legitimate, as well as running a home server. Windows Server licenses are pricy. Software to add more functions to Windows is pricy. So I decided to get my feet wet with Linux, and eventually learned enough to have a home server that ran as a router and file server. It grew over time into much more. I then got a job supporting servers, and my Linux knowledge allowed me to grow into other Unix systems as well. When OS X was released, I looked into it due to the Unix underpinnings, and was pretty much sold on the spot. It took some time, but I saved up to buy a refurb iMac to try it out. Over time, I found myself using the iMac more then my custom built PC, and ended up buying another more powerful Mac. And from there, I just started replacing machines with Macs as I needed.

Some of my posts are also of the venting nature. For that, I apologize for the parts that came across rude. Tech is a major part of many of our lives, mine included. And at times, I can get very passionate about it. In the end, if your really happy with your situation, thats good. I still urge you to try out the Mac side at home some day, and I'll even offer what advice and support I can if you do.

Yeah, I was close, but you know what kept me from it? Price. I know Apple makes really fantastic hardware that's beautifully designed and all works together with the OS, but I'm sorry, you pay a premium for that. I totally understand someone wanting to pay that premium, and I don't fault them for it, but at this point I wasn't willing to pay the premium. I wanted a Core i7 system for under $1500, and Apple can't do that for me.

Sorry, I went down another classic Windows defense angle, but I can only speak to my own experience, and I'm one of those people looking for the non-existent, mid-range, monitor-less Apple computer.

But all of this is moot. I reiterate that I'm happy with my operating system, and I don't need/want people feeling sorry for the poor little guy with the Windows OS

Not to rehash past discussions here too much, I will reiterate that there isn't a price premium for Apple computers when compared to another OEM providing a complete system and warranty. They do lack the same variety of different computer models that other vendors offer, and they do lack a midrange expandable monitorless system. That market is a shrinking one though, and at this point I don't think it's a market segment Apple will address now.

To answer your original question, it looks like you have to have an activated install of Windows XP, Vista or 7 RC present to use an upgrade disc.

Ouch, not as good as I'd hoped. I mean, the first installation will be fine, as all three computers in our home now have 7 RC on them, but I'll have to figure something out if I want to reinstall after spring of next year.

I do think it's highly annoying that, in the future, I'll need to completely install an old OS, then install the upgrade.

Maybe the pending Windows 7 family pack is something for you then? Licence for 3 computers in one household: $150. Only home premium edition though, but that should be enough for most. (apologies if this has been mentioned before ; I didn't read the entire thread)

Interesting, though I don't see anything official from Microsoft saying it'll be $150. That would be the same price as three copies (until yesterday), though I ordered Professional for my own computer to get XP virtualization and some other features. I still have a couple important programs that don't work in 7, most notably Apple's Airport control software (I really despise that software - why couldn't they make it a web interface like everyone else?).

The same price? Oh, then I'm confusing US pricing with European pricing. (which has already popped up on a couple of websites). But the idea was that a family pack licence (for 3 pc's) would cost you about half of what it would cost if you'd buy the licences separately. I'm guessing the US deal will be similar. And it's a nice deal I reckon... the only downside being it'll only exist for windows 7 Home Premium and only for a 3 PC licence, not less, nor more).

It's about the same price for now, with the 50% off deal that will expire at a random time.

So long term, the family pack will be a deal for people needing 2 or 3 licenses. For now, not much of a deal (US prices are showing $130-$150), and it probably explains why the family pack isn't out yet.

Yeah, that's what I meant, sorry. It wasn't a deal if I purchased on Saturday (which I did).

Ok now today I put a roll on and I actually thought about which way to put it on. Great thanks