#275277 - 30/01/2006 21:23
Death rattle of drive
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new poster
Registered: 04/04/2004
Posts: 16
Loc: Midwest
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If a virgin laptop drive spins but you don't hear the familiar scratchings does that necessarily mean it's dead?
I am attempting to replace a dieing/dead original drive in the Empeg w/another but it seems dead as well. I know it's NOT the IDE header or cable for another works in it's place. I attempted to put the builder upgrade on the new drive, continue to get a 'bad pump response' error. This happened from the start. If I get a laptop to IDE adapter for my WinXP PC would that tell me anything about it being defective? How does one truly know a hard drive is bad when it's new?
Another odd thing is the original dieing/dead drive gave me the same errors even though it worked before I ran the builder upgrade, I wasn't concerned w/the data on it being lost but it seems strange that it won't respond either. I thought it would give me a little more time out of it. Of course I can't test on any other drives as they are keepers. So what I have is a potentially dead new drive & old drive that doesn't respond to the 'builder upgrade'. Does this make any sense?
Edited by Snowshoe (30/01/2006 21:25)
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#275278 - 30/01/2006 21:37
Re: Death rattle of drive
[Re: Snowshoe]
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addict
Registered: 27/10/2002
Posts: 568
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Quote:
... old drive that doesn't respond to the 'builder upgrade...
Remember if the drive is already built that you need to have the Empeg connected up to the serial so you can press Enter somewhere in the process (as per the Empeg FAQ under Step 6 - Formatting the new drive)...
Stig
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#275279 - 30/01/2006 21:47
Re: Death rattle of drive
[Re: StigOE]
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new poster
Registered: 04/04/2004
Posts: 16
Loc: Midwest
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I don't think it ever got built. The builder wizard never gets to where I thought it was finished. The builder upgrade wizard sits dead at selecting pump device until I guess it times out w/the error of 'bad pump response'. I can't get Hyperterminal to connect because the upgrade file is using the connection, I think.
Edited by Snowshoe (30/01/2006 21:48)
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#275280 - 30/01/2006 22:40
Re: Death rattle of drive
[Re: Snowshoe]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31600
Loc: Seattle, WA
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I would suspect serial port issues or other technical issues with the player hardware before assuming two dead drives in a row.
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#275281 - 30/01/2006 23:14
Re: Death rattle of drive
[Re: tfabris]
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new poster
Registered: 04/04/2004
Posts: 16
Loc: Midwest
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The serial port seems to work fine otherwise though I wouldn't think 2 drives would go either, but to be fair one was suspected bad & the other was new & never tried so I thought maybe it's possible. I can communicate w/the player & get a bash prompt. I have also tried this (builder upgrade w/both of my players a Mk2 & a Mk2a mostly w/the 2a. Now I must say at this point that the 2a had a 2beta13 running on it initially (I thought all along it was loaded w/2 final-I don't use it much) I quickly put a ver. 2 final on it & tried some more.
Edited by Snowshoe (30/01/2006 23:16)
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#275282 - 31/01/2006 01:19
Re: Death rattle of drive
[Re: tfabris]
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new poster
Registered: 04/04/2004
Posts: 16
Loc: Midwest
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Is it possible I did something w/the first drive (new) somewhere. I mean can you apply the builder partially or wrong, if the serial didn't work at that particular time as you stated Tony. If so what could be done to rectify the situation? Anything I can try before I send the drive back?
If the drive sounds like it's spinning, i.e. slight buzz & vibrating slightly, but it doesn't scratch is it dead?
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#275283 - 31/01/2006 14:34
Re: Death rattle of drive
[Re: Snowshoe]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31600
Loc: Seattle, WA
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Quote:
I mean can you apply the builder partially or wrong
Yes. If you don't follow the instructions exactly and get hyperterminal working at the right moment, you might miss the "disk appears to be already built" prompt and not be able to press the Enter key at the correct moment to make it format the disk properly.
Quote:
Anything I can try before I send the drive back?
Triple and quadruple-check every single possible known failure mode listed here. For example, I don't recall you saying anything about the serial boot up messages related to the CS4231A chip. How do we know it's good?
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#275284 - 31/01/2006 21:26
Re: Death rattle of drive
[Re: tfabris]
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new poster
Registered: 04/04/2004
Posts: 16
Loc: Midwest
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Quote:
I don't recall you saying anything about the serial boot up messages related to the CS4231A chip
I just couldn't believe it wouyld happen on 2 players so I didn't really check that, but I will. I also figured the player would be bad in another way if the chip WAS bad. Everything else in the FAQ was followed except for that part & passed w/no hitches.
I'll check it now.
Quote:
you might miss the "disk appears to be already built" prompt
That's just it it never said that, I don't think it reaches near that step it flashes the ram then tries to select pump & times out w/error, I watched every step carefully each time. There are a few steps in between 'flash' & 'selecting pump' but they flash by so fast you can't see what they say.
Edited by Snowshoe (31/01/2006 21:32)
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#275285 - 31/01/2006 22:31
Re: Death rattle of drive
[Re: Snowshoe]
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new poster
Registered: 04/04/2004
Posts: 16
Loc: Midwest
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OK here's the serial output on the chip
empeg display initialised.5:59ad.cpp: 180:@@ #37d0
empeg dsp audio initialisedError -4 occurred at disk p
empeg dsp mixer initialised
empeg dsp initialisedhread.cpp: 180:@@ #37
empeg audio-in initialised, CS4231A revision a0
serial_notify_thread.cpp: 180:@@
empeg single channel IDE 0:05:59 Comm
serial_
Probing primary interface...d0 0:05:59
hda: IBM-DARA-212000, ATA DISK drive ff 3f 3f ff 3f a0 00y_thread.cpp: 1
hda: IBM-DARA-212000, ATA DISK drive: 180:@@ #37d0 0:05:59e290 0:01:31
hda: IBM-DARA-212000, ATA DISK drive
serial_n
If something looks strange about a drive it's because one of them wasn't connected when this was done. There's is an error mentioned "error -4 occurred at disk p" not sure what this means.
I'm not sure what this means as far as the chip being good or bad, would it say bad after the name?
OK- from searching I take it's good, sigh of relief now on to other tries.
Edited by Snowshoe (31/01/2006 22:36)
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#275286 - 31/01/2006 23:16
Re: Death rattle of drive
[Re: Snowshoe]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 24/12/2001
Posts: 5528
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Firstly, the reason why your serial log is so jumbled is that Hyperterminal is crap. It is a terrible app and the only redeeming feature is that it is bundled with most versions of Windows.
"Error -4 occurred at disk p" isn't from the default empeg software. Have you been running smartctl? smartctl will print out errors along the lines of "Error <blah> occurred at disk power-on lifetime: "
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#275287 - 31/01/2006 23:54
Re: Death rattle of drive
[Re: tman]
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new poster
Registered: 04/04/2004
Posts: 16
Loc: Midwest
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Quote:
Have you been running smartctl?
Yes I did run it on the drive that particular serial capture came from.
In the FAQ the disk builder instructions say when the wizard if finished start Hyperterminal. At what point is it finished, I tried to start the .ht profile as soon as it was finished 'Programming Flash (Kernal)' and Hyperterminal complains that another device is using the connection. I've also tried starting the profile as soon as the static logo appears on the screen & get the same response. I've never really seen the player reboot as it does while being regular mode is this normal?
At what point does the builder upgrade file release the connection so Hyperterminal can begin formatting?
Is there a better program to use besides Hyperterminal?
Edited-Is HyperAccess any better?
Edited by Snowshoe (01/02/2006 00:34)
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#275288 - 01/02/2006 00:51
Re: Death rattle of drive
[Re: Snowshoe]
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new poster
Registered: 04/04/2004
Posts: 16
Loc: Midwest
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Does the disk that's being formatted have to be on a particular side of the IDE cable (L/R)?
Per FAQ:
Quote:
If you want to stress test the second disk, you must swap it into the primary drive slot
or is this talking about the drive jumper?
I know, I'm grasping at straws right? I'm just looking for a solution. I've literally swapped drives & players (Mk2&Mk2a) around all night. It can't be an issue w/cables (used 2 different ones & they work when used for playing files), so the IDE headers must work too. The old drive mentioned in an earlier post, when used to play files, wasn't harmed by the builder wizard for it worked when syncing w/Emplode. Except for the complaint of playlists missing but a subsequent sync fixxed that after a database rebuilding. The builder file, I guess isn't corrupt (D/L w/GetRight).
I'm stumped 
Edited by Snowshoe (01/02/2006 02:18)
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#275289 - 01/02/2006 07:04
Re: Death rattle of drive
[Re: Snowshoe]
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addict
Registered: 27/10/2002
Posts: 568
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Since we know that there have been problems using the disk builder, have you tried building the disk manually? Stig
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#275290 - 01/02/2006 07:08
Re: Death rattle of drive
[Re: Snowshoe]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 24/12/2001
Posts: 5528
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It means jumper the drive to primary. It doesn't matter which position you put the drives on the cable as it doesn't have cable select.
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#275291 - 01/02/2006 07:13
Re: Death rattle of drive
[Re: StigOE]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 24/12/2001
Posts: 5528
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Quote:
Since we know that there have been problems using the disk builder, have you tried building the disk manually?
The problems with the disk builder image from what I've gathered are for large drives only i.e. > 60GB. I've used the disk builder successfully with a 60GB drive and didn't need to do anything special.
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#275292 - 01/02/2006 07:15
Re: Death rattle of drive
[Re: Snowshoe]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 24/12/2001
Posts: 5528
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Quote:
At what point does the builder upgrade file release the connection so Hyperterminal can begin formatting?
The builder image actually replaces software on the empeg which you then have to restart. Apply the image and when it is completely finished and exits you should start up your terminal app and then unplug/replug the empeg. Don't try to use the serial port when the firmware utility is still running.
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#275293 - 01/02/2006 20:52
Re: Death rattle of drive
[Re: StigOE]
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new poster
Registered: 04/04/2004
Posts: 16
Loc: Midwest
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No t yet but I might try it. I glanced at the procedure.
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#275294 - 01/02/2006 20:53
Re: Death rattle of drive
[Re: tman]
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new poster
Registered: 04/04/2004
Posts: 16
Loc: Midwest
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That's what I thought but had to ask.
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#275295 - 01/02/2006 21:22
Re: Death rattle of drive
[Re: tman]
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new poster
Registered: 04/04/2004
Posts: 16
Loc: Midwest
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Quote:
Apply the image and when it is completely finished & exits...
See this is what I'm stumbling on, the builder doesn't finish. I get a 'bad pump response error 0x25' after it sits there idle for awhile.
Here's exactly what the upgrade wizard goes through step by step maybe it will help explain:
1)Erasing flash (Boot loader)
2)Programming flash (Boot loader)
3)Erasing flash (Kernel)
4)Programming flash (Kernel)
5)Find pump (preparing first disk)
6)Waiting for pump [this goes very quickly]
7)Selecting pump device [this is where it sits there for several minutes w/no progress on bar]
8)Error "bad pump response" occurred during stage 0x25
[at the bottom are buttons for <back/finish/close]
The static logo will sit on screen until I unplug it. If I plug it back in I get the same staic logo for a few seconds then the dreaded No hard disk found Contact support.
Does any of help?
I tried another hard drive that already had some music on it, I get the same results using the builder wizard. Strangely when I reapplied the developer image to the player & synced it w/Emplode the music files were pretty much unharmed except the playlists were munged a bit, another sync solved that.
Edited by Snowshoe (01/02/2006 21:27)
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#275296 - 02/02/2006 15:20
Re: Death rattle of drive
[Re: Snowshoe]
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enthusiast
Registered: 11/06/2003
Posts: 384
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Are you using a dock of some kind?
--Nathan
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#275297 - 03/02/2006 00:58
Re: Death rattle of drive
[Re: Mataglap]
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new poster
Registered: 04/04/2004
Posts: 16
Loc: Midwest
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#275298 - 03/02/2006 13:11
Re: Death rattle of drive
[Re: StigOE]
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new poster
Registered: 04/04/2004
Posts: 16
Loc: Midwest
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It looks like from the instructions on the manual build version I would need to be able to get a bash prompt is this correct?
If so I'm screwed for I can't reached this point on the disk. Is there any other ways?
My ? now would be is it possible that the first time I attempted to use the builder wizard that it/I did a partial job & now the disk is toasted?
Edited by Snowshoe (03/02/2006 13:13)
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#275299 - 03/02/2006 13:49
Re: Death rattle of drive
[Re: Snowshoe]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 15/08/2000
Posts: 4859
Loc: New Jersey, USA
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Greetings!
Sorry - it has been a busy week at the office, so I haven't been paying attention.
Can you recap your exact status?
You have 1 or 2 new drives...
What is their capacity?
What model empeg do you have?
What is the status of the drives relative to running builder or attempting manual builds?
Do you have a working / reliable serial link?
It might be possible to step you through from there.
_________________________
Paul Grzelak
200GB with 48MB RAM, Illuminated Buttons and Digital Outputs
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#275300 - 03/02/2006 14:42
Re: Death rattle of drive
[Re: pgrzelak]
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new poster
Registered: 04/04/2004
Posts: 16
Loc: Midwest
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Hello I appreciate the response, luckily I have a backup player or I think I be going nuts right now 
Quote:
You have 1 or 2 new drives...
Trying to build 1 new drive 40G Hitachi Travelstar.
Quote:
What model empeg do you have?
Tried on both a Empeg & Rio branded player as well as different cables that were known to work when using players normally.
Quote:
What is the status of the drives relative to running builder or attempting manual builds?
Brand new drive. I had tried an existing drive (empeg software/music) loaded that I knew worked but didn't mind if the builder fryed it, just to see if there was something wrong w/the new drive. After trying to use the builder on it I reinstalled developer w/same drive & synced it to Emplode. The playlists were mangled a bit after re-syncing once more they were fine. Seems like the builder didn't do anything? I'm not sure.
Quote:
Do you have a working / reliable serial link?
Yes, I can reach a bash prompt using an existing (playlists/developer v2.0 installed on it) drive in same spot player. I can also get output via serial port while the builder is on player but unresponsive to my commands.
If this helps here's the serial output I get when connecting to Empeg after a unplug/plugin after the builder wizard has had a go at building disk and returned the error -"bad pump response" occurred during stage 0x25.
#======================= Connected 10:39 AM 2/3/2006 =========================#
empeg-car bootstrap v1.00 20000601 (hugo@empeg.com)
If there is anyone present who wants to upgrade the flash, let them speak now,
or forever hold their peace...it seems not. Let fly the Penguins of Linux!
e000 v1.04
Copying kernel...
Calling linux kernel...
Uncompressing Linux..................................... done, booting the kerne
l.
Linux version 2.2.14-rmk5-np17-empeg49 (mac@aphex.internal.empeg.com) (gcc versi
on 2.95.3 20010315 (release)) #130 Mon Oct 22 18:52:07 BST 2001
Processor: Intel StrongARM-1100 revision 11
NetWinder Floating Point Emulator V0.94.1 (c) 1998 Corel Computer Corp.
empeg-car player (hardware revision 7, serial number 90000695)
Command line: mem=12m
Calibrating delay loop... 207.67 BogoMIPS
Memory: 10968k/12M available (964k code, 20k reserved, 332k data, 4k init)
Dentry hash table entries: 2048 (order 2, 16k)
Buffer cache hash table entries: 16384 (order 4, 64k)
Page cache hash table entries: 4096 (order 2, 16k)
POSIX conformance testing by UNIFIX
Linux NET4.0 for Linux 2.2
Based upon Swansea University Computer Society NET3.039
NET4: Linux TCP/IP 1.0 for NET4.0
IP Protocols: ICMP, UDP, TCP
TCP: Hash tables configured (ehash 16384 bhash 16384)
IrDA (tm) Protocols for Linux-2.2 (Dag Brattli)
Linux-IrDA: IrCOMM protocol ( revision:Tue May 18 03:11:39 1999 )
ircomm_tty: virtual tty driver for IrCOMM ( revision:Wed May 26 00:49:11 1999 )
Starting kswapd v 1.5
SA1100 serial driver version 4.27 with no serial options enabled
ttyS00 at 0xf8010000 (irq = 15) is a SA1100 UART
ttyS01 at 0xf8050000 (irq = 17) is a SA1100 UART
ttyS02 at 0xf8030000 (irq = 16) is a SA1100 UART
Signature is 20706d65 'emp '
empeg display initialised.
empeg dsp audio initialised
empeg dsp mixer initialised
empeg dsp initialised
empeg audio-in initialised, CS4231A revision a0
empeg remote control/panel button initialised.
empeg usb initialised, PDIUSBD12 id 1012
empeg state support initialised 0089/88c1 (save to d0005b80).
empeg RDS driver initialised
empeg power-pic driver initialised (first boot)
RAM disk driver initialized: 16 RAM disks of 4096K size
empeg single channel IDE
Probing primary interface...
Probing primary interface...
empeg-flash driver initialized
smc chip id/revision 0x3349
smc9194.c:v0.12 03/06/96 by Erik Stahlman (erik@vt.edu)
SMC9194: SMC91C94(r:9) at 0x4008000 IRQ:7 INTF:TP MEM:6144b MAC 00:02:d7:12:02:b
7
RAMDISK: ext2 filesystem found at block 0
RAMDISK: Loading 320 blocks [1 disk] into ram disk... done.
EXT2-fs warning: checktime reached, running e2fsck is recommended
VFS: Mounted root (ext2 filesystem).
empeg-pump v0.03 (19980601)
Press Ctrl-A to enter pump...VFS: Cannot open root device 03:05
Kernel panic: VFS: Unable to mount root fs on 03:05
Edited by Snowshoe (03/02/2006 15:07)
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#275301 - 03/02/2006 14:56
Re: Death rattle of drive
[Re: Snowshoe]
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addict
Registered: 27/10/2002
Posts: 568
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If you have one Empeg with one drive with developer image, then just install the new drive as a secondary drive. Then you shouldn't have any problems getting a bash prompt and can follow the instructions for a manual build...
Stig
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#275302 - 03/02/2006 15:07
Re: Death rattle of drive
[Re: StigOE]
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new poster
Registered: 04/04/2004
Posts: 16
Loc: Midwest
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That won't fry the existing disk when the new one is formatted?
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#275303 - 03/02/2006 15:14
Re: Death rattle of drive
[Re: StigOE]
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new poster
Registered: 04/04/2004
Posts: 16
Loc: Midwest
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I had actually thought about that but was afraid the loaded drive would get zapped/fryed also, in the process.
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#275304 - 03/02/2006 15:36
Re: Death rattle of drive
[Re: Snowshoe]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 15/08/2000
Posts: 4859
Loc: New Jersey, USA
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Actually, if you have a fully functional boot drive (already built), you should install the second drive and NOT user the builder image. Boot into the empeg developer version and partition and then format the second drive manually. The links in these steps assume just this configuration - a fully functioning boot drive and the addition of a second drive.
_________________________
Paul Grzelak
200GB with 48MB RAM, Illuminated Buttons and Digital Outputs
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#275305 - 03/02/2006 15:39
Re: Death rattle of drive
[Re: pgrzelak]
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new poster
Registered: 04/04/2004
Posts: 16
Loc: Midwest
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OK, I'll try it now, thanks.
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#275306 - 03/02/2006 17:34
Re: Death rattle of drive
[Re: pgrzelak]
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new poster
Registered: 04/04/2004
Posts: 16
Loc: Midwest
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Ughhhh I haven't begun the process of partitioning the new drive for now I have a hangup getting serial to connect to the original master drive, when it worked before it's either dead now or I don't know what.
Using the manual method can an existing master drive come from another player or is there a way to use the manual method w/only the new drive?
The reason I ask is now the drive that was working as the master, the drive that the new drive is going to replace in the player I want to add the new drive to, isn't responding to Emplode. Only the original slave is working but Emplode crashes when checking the media for I think the master is failing.
This thing is really getting frustrating. I guess I only have a working slave drive.
Edited by Snowshoe (03/02/2006 18:44)
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#275307 - 03/02/2006 18:04
Re: Death rattle of drive
[Re: Snowshoe]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 15/08/2000
Posts: 4859
Loc: New Jersey, USA
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Yes. As long as there is a bootable master drive (ignore emplode for the moment) in the player, you should be able to partition and format a new secondary drive.
_________________________
Paul Grzelak
200GB with 48MB RAM, Illuminated Buttons and Digital Outputs
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#275308 - 04/02/2006 02:48
Re: Death rattle of drive
[Re: pgrzelak]
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new poster
Registered: 04/04/2004
Posts: 16
Loc: Midwest
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Quote:
(ignore emplode for the moment)
It would connect w/Hyperterminal but it would fall short of a bash prompt. Instead there disk error issues, I wish I had captured it now so as to post.
***I'll try the boot drive from the Rio or perhaps try the whole operation in the Rio instead of the Empeg.
Thanks for all help so far, the others may have given up on me for my rather ham-handed attempts @ getting this to work. In my eagerness to get the drive to work before the return time is over my posts have been lacking in good details for trouble shooting. I had checked everything the FAQ mentioned to look for when problems arose. Including the use of penlights, magnifying glasses, new cable & triple checking connections. A few years back I successfully added the second drive w/no problems whatsoever so this really baffling me.
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#275309 - 04/02/2006 05:29
Re: Death rattle of drive
[Re: pgrzelak]
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new poster
Registered: 04/04/2004
Posts: 16
Loc: Midwest
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I gave up on the new drive it just won't let Hyperterminal connect so I tried another older drive. When attempting to trash the existing partition table I get the response 'device not configured'. Is this good/bad, should I proceed to next step or is there somethingelse I'm going to have to do first before continuing?
and what does Tried to mount /dev/hdc4 but got error 6 mean?
Edited by Snowshoe (04/02/2006 05:29)
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#275310 - 04/02/2006 11:20
Re: Death rattle of drive
[Re: Snowshoe]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 15/08/2000
Posts: 4859
Loc: New Jersey, USA
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I know that some of the errors are okay, and I would expect them under your current situation. What did you want your end result to be? A one drive player with the new drive in it? A dual drive player with the old drive as the master and the new drive as the slave? Let me know what you want the final configuration to be, and I will try to step you through it. Example: new 40GB master, old 10GB slave.
I think I am getting confused, because I am counting at least four drives in play (possibly five) throughout your thread.
Also, is there any music on the old drive(s) that you wish to save and do not have backed up? Not that any of the steps are lethal to the old data if we are careful, but I want to make sure of it before we go on.
Edited by pgrzelak (04/02/2006 11:24)
_________________________
Paul Grzelak
200GB with 48MB RAM, Illuminated Buttons and Digital Outputs
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#275311 - 04/02/2006 17:26
Re: Death rattle of drive
[Re: pgrzelak]
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new poster
Registered: 04/04/2004
Posts: 16
Loc: Midwest
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My original plan was to replace the master drive (IBM Travelstar 12.7G), the players original drive w/a new drive (Hitachi Travelstar 40G). I think it's on it's way out, but not sure. This same player (Empeg) had a slave drive (IBM Travelstar 30G) that I had added a year or two later w/no problems. I also have a Rio player that has only one drive (Fujitsu 10G). But now if I could just get any of them (new 40G or old 12.7G) dirves to work w/any other drives I have (the Empeg slave 30G, Rio master 10G). The drives are all IBM Travelstars except for the Rio stock Fujitsu, one Travelstar, the new one, is Hitachi.
So there is four drives in play here, one is still working as a master, in the Rio, the others work but won't boot in players. One should work as a slave for I haven't messed w/it it has music loaded but replacing any of the music while not fun certainly possible if it means getting things to work.
Have I explained it enough to help?
Thanks.
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#275312 - 04/02/2006 19:18
Re: Death rattle of drive
[Re: Snowshoe]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 15/08/2000
Posts: 4859
Loc: New Jersey, USA
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Okay... That was perfect. This works...
Let's try to get the new 40GB drive working as a master, solo, in one of your players.
Select a player.
Remove all drives from it.
Install the new 40GB as master (no jumper).
Open a hyperterm session.
Capture the information to a file, not just to the screen.
Boot the player.
Post the boot log.
- This will show me exactly what image is in your boot eeprom and what kind of OS (if any) is left on the 40GB drive and how best to proceed.
_________________________
Paul Grzelak
200GB with 48MB RAM, Illuminated Buttons and Digital Outputs
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#275313 - 04/02/2006 19:53
Re: Death rattle of drive
[Re: pgrzelak]
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new poster
Registered: 04/04/2004
Posts: 16
Loc: Midwest
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Here's the new 40G capture file, from the Empeg player.
Attachments
275727-capture.txt (238 downloads)
Edited by Snowshoe (04/02/2006 19:57)
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#275314 - 04/02/2006 19:59
Re: Death rattle of drive
[Re: Snowshoe]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 15/08/2000
Posts: 4859
Loc: New Jersey, USA
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Okay. This looks kind of bad, because the player is not detecting the hard drive. (See >s below) This could be caused by a loose cable (either end) or a bad drive. If all of your connections look correct, feel for vibration or spinup of the drive as you power on. It could be DOA.
> empeg single channel IDE
> Probing primary interface...
> Probing primary interface...
_________________________
Paul Grzelak
200GB with 48MB RAM, Illuminated Buttons and Digital Outputs
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#275315 - 04/02/2006 20:09
Re: Death rattle of drive
[Re: pgrzelak]
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new poster
Registered: 04/04/2004
Posts: 16
Loc: Midwest
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The drive does feel like it's spinning but no scratching. I'll try another cable from the Rio.
Edited by Snowshoe (04/02/2006 20:10)
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#275316 - 04/02/2006 20:10
Re: Death rattle of drive
[Re: Snowshoe]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 15/08/2000
Posts: 4859
Loc: New Jersey, USA
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Okay. If it still fails, try swapping back your original 12GB and 30GB (in original master/slave configuration) and we will make sure that we can get those two back on line.
Edit: Please make sure you keep capturing your sessions, just as a double-check and so I can see what is happening. Thanks.
Edited by pgrzelak (04/02/2006 20:19)
_________________________
Paul Grzelak
200GB with 48MB RAM, Illuminated Buttons and Digital Outputs
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#275317 - 04/02/2006 20:32
Re: Death rattle of drive
[Re: pgrzelak]
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new poster
Registered: 04/04/2004
Posts: 16
Loc: Midwest
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Similiar capture from Hyperterminal w/Rio cable.
Quote:
> empeg single channel IDE
> Probing primary interface...
> Probing primary interface...
So I take it the single should be a dual channel, I had never noticed in previous captures, when it worked, it was a dual.
I'll try your suggestion.
As a side note I did have to replace the display fuse that blew when plugging it in one pin off. You know the fuzzy display problem described here display fuse
The 'single IDE' wouldn't have anything to do w/it would it? I didn't think so I didn't mention it initially.
Edited by Snowshoe (04/02/2006 20:45)
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#275318 - 04/02/2006 20:38
Re: Death rattle of drive
[Re: Snowshoe]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 15/08/2000
Posts: 4859
Loc: New Jersey, USA
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Well, the boot log you mentioned is normal. Any laptop IDE drive should work fine with this configuration (assuming it is not S-ATA, but the connector would not fit anyway). It is not that there are two test messages or the single vs. dual channel that is the issue - it is that the drive never responded at all. Typically, the drive will respond and correctly identify itself. Given that this is not the case, I suspect either cabling problems or a bad drive.
As for the fuzzy display - ouch! That is annoying, and I strongly recommend getting someone to replace that fuse.
_________________________
Paul Grzelak
200GB with 48MB RAM, Illuminated Buttons and Digital Outputs
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#275319 - 04/02/2006 20:47
Re: Death rattle of drive
[Re: pgrzelak]
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new poster
Registered: 04/04/2004
Posts: 16
Loc: Midwest
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I replaced the fuse & the display is fine that doesn't cause what's happening now does it?
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#275320 - 04/02/2006 20:49
Re: Death rattle of drive
[Re: Snowshoe]
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new poster
Registered: 04/04/2004
Posts: 16
Loc: Midwest
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Here's the capture from the original setup 12G master 30G slave. The boot stops where you see at the end it's not a capture cutoff.
Attachments
275734-capture2.txt (235 downloads)
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#275321 - 04/02/2006 20:56
Re: Death rattle of drive
[Re: Snowshoe]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 15/08/2000
Posts: 4859
Loc: New Jersey, USA
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Hmmm... Okay... And you have the master/slave configuration okay, where the jumper is on one drive? I have not seen this type of failure before.
Try disconnecting the slave drive and run only with the 12GB master. I am wondering if there are other problems on your mainboard, or if the drives do not want to coexist.
_________________________
Paul Grzelak
200GB with 48MB RAM, Illuminated Buttons and Digital Outputs
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#275322 - 04/02/2006 21:00
Re: Death rattle of drive
[Re: pgrzelak]
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new poster
Registered: 04/04/2004
Posts: 16
Loc: Midwest
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Quote:
or if the drives do not want to coexist.
These two drives worked flawlessly together before I tried to mess w/the master (12G) drive i.e. builder file.
Quote:
And you have the master/slave configuration okay, where the jumper is on one drive?
Yes, I'll check the jumper again.
Quote:
Try disconnecting the slave drive and run only with the 12GB master
Trying it now.
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#275323 - 04/02/2006 21:05
Re: Death rattle of drive
[Re: Snowshoe]
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new poster
Registered: 04/04/2004
Posts: 16
Loc: Midwest
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Here's the capture from the 12G drive by itself. This is the drive I think is screwed up.
Attachments
275737-capture.txt (256 downloads)
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#275324 - 04/02/2006 21:10
Re: Death rattle of drive
[Re: Snowshoe]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 15/08/2000
Posts: 4859
Loc: New Jersey, USA
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Okay. I see what you mean - the 12GB is certainly not a happy drive. But I am surprised at the location of the error. And you said that the 30 was a slave drive.
I know it will not work, but disconnect the 12GB and put the 30GB as master. This will fail, but you should basically see the drive respond to the IDE query, and you should see it fail with a panic at the end. At least this will prove that the player hardware is okay.
_________________________
Paul Grzelak
200GB with 48MB RAM, Illuminated Buttons and Digital Outputs
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#275325 - 04/02/2006 21:14
Re: Death rattle of drive
[Re: pgrzelak]
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new poster
Registered: 04/04/2004
Posts: 16
Loc: Midwest
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OK it seems like this one works, strange. But I'm sure it was the slave maybe I have the jumper on the wrong one?
Here's the capture. 30G by itself master pos.
Attachments
275739-capture.txt (238 downloads)
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#275326 - 04/02/2006 21:18
Re: Death rattle of drive
[Re: Snowshoe]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 15/08/2000
Posts: 4859
Loc: New Jersey, USA
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Position??? Um. No. Position is only important if you set your drives with a jumper using the "cable select" option. This can work, in theory. In practice for the empeg, I have always found it easier to set it by using a jumper to set a drive to slave, no jumper to set a drive as master. The position of the jumper on the drive may be different for different manufacturers and models.
This is certainly a master drive, with a fully bootable image on it. Okay. Does it have any jumpers on it? If so, remove it. This should force it as master.
Now, about that 12GB and 40GB - did either have jumpers on them when you were testing? Based on your posted logs, I am not sure it will matter. The 40GB did not respond to the probe and the 12GB seemed to lock up the boot cycle.
_________________________
Paul Grzelak
200GB with 48MB RAM, Illuminated Buttons and Digital Outputs
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#275327 - 04/02/2006 21:20
Re: Death rattle of drive
[Re: pgrzelak]
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new poster
Registered: 04/04/2004
Posts: 16
Loc: Midwest
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By pos. I meant as the master 'no jumper'.
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#275328 - 04/02/2006 21:24
Re: Death rattle of drive
[Re: pgrzelak]
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new poster
Registered: 04/04/2004
Posts: 16
Loc: Midwest
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Quote:
Now, about that 12GB and 40GB - did either have jumpers on them when you were testing?
To tell the truth I don't know for sure, don't think I did but can try again.
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#275329 - 04/02/2006 21:26
Re: Death rattle of drive
[Re: pgrzelak]
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new poster
Registered: 04/04/2004
Posts: 16
Loc: Midwest
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I tried the 12G as the slave this time w/the 30G as the master and emplode shows some of the playlists that the two of them had but yet some are missing.
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#275330 - 04/02/2006 21:29
Re: Death rattle of drive
[Re: Snowshoe]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 15/08/2000
Posts: 4859
Loc: New Jersey, USA
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Do you have a boot log? Curious to see if it saw both drives.
_________________________
Paul Grzelak
200GB with 48MB RAM, Illuminated Buttons and Digital Outputs
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#275331 - 04/02/2006 21:30
Re: Death rattle of drive
[Re: pgrzelak]
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new poster
Registered: 04/04/2004
Posts: 16
Loc: Midwest
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I suppose I could try the manual build method again now that I know that I have the right master.
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#275332 - 04/02/2006 21:31
Re: Death rattle of drive
[Re: pgrzelak]
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new poster
Registered: 04/04/2004
Posts: 16
Loc: Midwest
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#275333 - 04/02/2006 21:33
Re: Death rattle of drive
[Re: Snowshoe]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 15/08/2000
Posts: 4859
Loc: New Jersey, USA
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I agree with the manual build option for the 40GB. But make sure you watch that boot to make sure the empeg sees and recognizes both drives before you try.
I am going to be away from the computer for a little while, so you may not see an immediate response.
_________________________
Paul Grzelak
200GB with 48MB RAM, Illuminated Buttons and Digital Outputs
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#275334 - 04/02/2006 21:37
Re: Death rattle of drive
[Re: pgrzelak]
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new poster
Registered: 04/04/2004
Posts: 16
Loc: Midwest
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Here's the capture both drives connected, 12G slave & 30G master.
It looks like to me it shows the 30G, correct?
Attachments
275748-capture.txt (219 downloads)
Edited by Snowshoe (04/02/2006 22:10)
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#275335 - 04/02/2006 22:35
Re: Death rattle of drive
[Re: Snowshoe]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 15/08/2000
Posts: 4859
Loc: New Jersey, USA
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Actually, it looks like both are there... Quote:
Probing primary interface...
hda: IC25N030ATCS04-0, ATA DISK drive
hdb: probing with STATUS(0x50) instead of ALTSTATUS(0xff)
hdb: IBM-DARA-212000, ATA DISK drive
ide0 at 0x000-0x007,0x038 on irq 6
hda: IC25N030ATCS04-0, 28615MB w/1768kB Cache, CHS=58140/16/63
hdb: IBM-DARA-212000, 11513MB w/418kB Cache, CHS=23392/16/63
Both drives responded to the probe, and...
Quote:
Mounting first music partition
Tried to mount /dev/hda4 as reiserfs but got error 19
Mounting second music partition
Remounting first music partition read-only
Remounting second music partition read-only
Both music partitions were mounted. Ignore that error - it is normal.
Do you see everything on the player at the moment? If so, now would be a really good time to back up your music with emplode to your local machine.
_________________________
Paul Grzelak
200GB with 48MB RAM, Illuminated Buttons and Digital Outputs
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#275336 - 04/02/2006 22:49
Re: Death rattle of drive
[Re: pgrzelak]
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new poster
Registered: 04/04/2004
Posts: 16
Loc: Midwest
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It did sync w/Emplode fine like nothing had happened, however some of the playlists are gone. The playlists have changed quite a bit.
I tried to use the manual method of partitioning w/the 30G as master & the new 40G as the slave.
It doesn't look good here's the capture part of it anyways. After the capture I tried to connect w/Emplode & the player is stuck on syncing it won't stop.
Attachments
275751-capture.txt (214 downloads)
Edited by Snowshoe (04/02/2006 22:50)
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#275337 - 04/02/2006 23:00
Re: Death rattle of drive
[Re: Snowshoe]
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new poster
Registered: 04/04/2004
Posts: 16
Loc: Midwest
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I'm under the impression that the new drive IS BAD do you agree?
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#275338 - 04/02/2006 23:17
Re: Death rattle of drive
[Re: pgrzelak]
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new poster
Registered: 04/04/2004
Posts: 16
Loc: Midwest
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Got to leave for an hour. I might be picking up a drive since this one might be going back to TigerDirect.
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#275339 - 05/02/2006 12:49
Re: Death rattle of drive
[Re: Snowshoe]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 15/08/2000
Posts: 4859
Loc: New Jersey, USA
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Greetings!
Sorry for the delay. Like I said, I was away from the computer last evening.
Yes, I agree that the 40GB drive seems to be toast. It might be worthwhile to try it in another player, but even then I am not sure I would trust it. If you can replace it, great!
_________________________
Paul Grzelak
200GB with 48MB RAM, Illuminated Buttons and Digital Outputs
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#275340 - 05/02/2006 12:55
Re: Death rattle of drive
[Re: Snowshoe]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 29/08/2000
Posts: 14496
Loc: Canada
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Quote:
I'm under the impression that the new drive IS BAD do you agree?
The only way to know for sure (apart from observing smoke), is to view the S.M.A.R.T. data from the drive, either using smartctl, or the IBM Drive Fitness software, or whatever S.M.A.R.T. program the manufacturer supplies for it.
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#275341 - 05/02/2006 14:17
Re: Death rattle of drive
[Re: mlord]
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new poster
Registered: 04/04/2004
Posts: 16
Loc: Midwest
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OK, I don't have a laptop computer to try that in can smartctl be done in the Rio if it won't boot properly?
I suppose I could get one of those adapters so I could use it in my PC WinXP.
Edited by Snowshoe (05/02/2006 14:20)
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#275342 - 05/02/2006 14:54
Re: Death rattle of drive/birth of a new one
[Re: Snowshoe]
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new poster
Registered: 04/04/2004
Posts: 16
Loc: Midwest
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Well the new drive I bought last nite has just been successfully, manually partitioned, now on to formatting the disk.
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#275343 - 05/02/2006 16:10
Re: Death rattle of drive
[Re: pgrzelak]
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new poster
Registered: 04/04/2004
Posts: 16
Loc: Midwest
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Well succes on partitioning & formatting the new new drive not the old new drive, Emplode shows a total of 67G now. I used the Rio instead of the Empeg since the display fuse I soldered had a cold joint & needs resoldering. Thanks a lot Paul for the step by step help I know it must've been frustrating trying to help someone who doesn't really understand whats behind the steps needed but can follow them.
Now I do have one more ?
I noticed on a post/FAQ? somewhere that you can't swap drives back & forth from a Empeg to a Rio. Is this still true or is there a work around? For my original plan was to put the new drive in the Empeg. If I was to fill this drive w/music/playlists in the Rio could I have the same music/playlists in the Empeg when the drive is switched over or would I have to just get a new drive for the Empeg as well?
Edited by Snowshoe (06/02/2006 01:33)
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#275344 - 05/02/2006 16:12
Re: Death rattle of drive
[Re: Snowshoe]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
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You can swap them around without problem, with the exception that if you have some massive number of extra programs running on the IIa (RioCar), you might not get them all to run on the II (empeg), due to the lesser amount of memory.
_________________________
Bitt Faulk
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#275345 - 05/02/2006 19:29
Re: Death rattle of drive
[Re: wfaulk]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 19/01/2002
Posts: 3584
Loc: Columbus, OH
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to clarify further, you cannot swap drives between an Empeg Mk1 and an Empeg Mk2 or RioCar (Mk2a) without rebuilding them. But as Bitt noted, between an Mk2 and an Mk2a is fine.
_________________________
~ John
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#275346 - 06/02/2006 01:31
Re: Death rattle of drive
[Re: wfaulk]
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new poster
Registered: 04/04/2004
Posts: 16
Loc: Midwest
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Excellent, I only have two programs on it, that I run w/any regularity. Emphatic & tts clock which I guess the latter only runs when booting. I also have Empire but haven't used it a lot.
I plan on checking the apparently dead drives to see if they are indeed dead.
Can anyone tell me if smartctl can be run on a dead drive or does it still have to have some life in it? I had run it on the suspected old drive previous to the drive swap fiasco & it did show some errors. So I didn't check it any further, but the playlists did continue to work & show up. As far as the new drive that's apparently dead also, I don't even think it runs at all to be able to check it.
Edited by Snowshoe (06/02/2006 01:32)
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#275347 - 06/02/2006 01:42
Re: Death rattle of drive
[Re: Snowshoe]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 29/08/2000
Posts: 14496
Loc: Canada
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smartctl won't be allowed (by Linux) to even attempt to talk to the drive unless the Linux IDE driver sees (successfully probes for) the drive at boot time.
cheers
Edited by mlord (06/02/2006 01:43)
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#275348 - 06/02/2006 09:27
Re: Death rattle of drive
[Re: mlord]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 15/08/2000
Posts: 4859
Loc: New Jersey, USA
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Given that, it is unlikely to work on that 40GB drive. I am glad you were able to get it running though!!!
_________________________
Paul Grzelak
200GB with 48MB RAM, Illuminated Buttons and Digital Outputs
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#275349 - 06/02/2006 14:31
Re: Death rattle of drive
[Re: pgrzelak]
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addict
Registered: 18/08/2002
Posts: 544
Loc: New Jersey
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I am just sooooooo happy that my new HDD install and copy went flawless!!!!
sorry to hear about all ur problems
Ed
p.s. ...paul...loading up well!
_________________________
...One man gathers what another man spills
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#275350 - 06/02/2006 21:38
Re: Death rattle of drive
[Re: pgrzelak]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 25/06/1999
Posts: 2993
Loc: Wareham, Dorset, UK
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Paul, this is a spot on question set. Well said. This is what should be asked when the only real advice is re-format and start from scratch.
_________________________
One of the few remaining Mk1 owners...  #00015
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#275351 - 06/02/2006 21:41
Re: Death rattle of drive
[Re: Snowshoe]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 25/06/1999
Posts: 2993
Loc: Wareham, Dorset, UK
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Hardware OK, drive not formatted.
_________________________
One of the few remaining Mk1 owners... #00015
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#275352 - 06/02/2006 21:42
Re: Death rattle of drive
[Re: Snowshoe]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 25/06/1999
Posts: 2993
Loc: Wareham, Dorset, UK
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No, it has no effect. Don't get diverted off track.
_________________________
One of the few remaining Mk1 owners... #00015
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#275353 - 06/02/2006 21:43
Re: Death rattle of drive
[Re: Snowshoe]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 25/06/1999
Posts: 2993
Loc: Wareham, Dorset, UK
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This is not a complete boot log.
_________________________
One of the few remaining Mk1 owners... #00015
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#275354 - 06/02/2006 21:44
Re: Death rattle of drive
[Re: Snowshoe]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 25/06/1999
Posts: 2993
Loc: Wareham, Dorset, UK
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Again, an incomplete boot log.
_________________________
One of the few remaining Mk1 owners... #00015
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#275355 - 06/02/2006 21:47
Re: Death rattle of drive
[Re: pgrzelak]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 25/06/1999
Posts: 2993
Loc: Wareham, Dorset, UK
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Quote:
This can work, in theory.
No, it won't work. You *have* to hard jumper the drives, and not rely on CS functionality - it's not supported in the host.
_________________________
One of the few remaining Mk1 owners... #00015
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#275356 - 03/03/2006 02:13
Re: Death rattle of drive
[Re: Snowshoe]
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new poster
Registered: 04/04/2004
Posts: 16
Loc: Midwest
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As a followup to this thread the NEW 40G Hitachi Travelstar drive was found to be defective it wouldn't even show up for the Drive Fitness Test. Hitachi sent a new one back to me & will soon be installed.
The old drive it was replacing is showing errors using smartctl but amazingly still works so I'll keep it til it dies.
Thanks to all for the help w/this, great board but I knew that coming in.
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#275357 - 06/03/2006 12:33
Re: Death rattle of drive
[Re: schofiel]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 18/01/2000
Posts: 5683
Loc: London, UK
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Quote:
You *have* to hard jumper the drives...
...or hard not-jumper the drives. As Rob says, cable select is not supported by the empeg. These days, hard drives often come out of the box jumpered for cable select, and you need to check that the jumpers are on the correct pins (or that you've taken the jumper off completely, as appropriate).
_________________________
-- roger
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#275358 - 06/03/2006 20:56
Re: Death rattle of drive
[Re: Roger]
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new poster
Registered: 04/04/2004
Posts: 16
Loc: Midwest
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I never even considered using Cable Select at that time, I knew it wasn't an option.
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