I have been expecting this since the mk1 got into the market: Car Stereo Review reviewing the empeg. I usually trust their articles, as many people do, and if you go to their site www.m-emag.com (sorry, for some reason i can't get html working), you will see they liked the empeg very much, demonstrating that all those reviews from computer zines were missing the real points, that these car-fi guys realized immediately.Congratulations to empeg, this is the article you really needed to get in the spotlight.

Edited by reggie on 04/02/01 04:48 AM.

This reviewer is cool! He even coined a new name for the Empeg... (ie EC)

Tom

Reg #2845: Mark 1 #00173, Mark 2 #119

In reply to:

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Car Stereo Review reviewing the empeg

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There are a couple of quibbles with this:

1 - "I'm thinking the reason that the rotary knob is on the right side is because the EC 6Gb is made in Britain, bastion of right-hand-drive cars"

Oh, for God's sake. It's an extra 6 flaming inches. Does it really matter? As a point of information, I use the buttons more than I use the knob anyway.

2 - "The manager software missed some of the song titles I downloaded to the player"

More likely the tags weren't created correctly (i.e. user error). I rather suspect that if Emplode did this on a regular basis it would have been the subject of much discussion here.

3 - "Maximum unclipped output was 1.3 volts; while certainly workable, many folks prefer a higher voltage these days. (The company rates maximum output level at 3.6 volts without clipping.)"

Sounds like the WAV wasn't normalised before it was encoded.

4 - "Using test files coded at 192 kbps, frequency response was good, but there was some high-frequency droop."

Err. Yes. What do you expect? MP3 is a lossy encoding mechanism. Earlier in the review he states that he can hear the difference at low bit rates, so why bother doing the lab measurements on (relatively) low bit rate files?


As for calling it the "EC", is the concept of company and product going under the same name really that difficult to grasp?


All in all though, an interesting review.

It is amusing to see that when reviewed in computing magazines the quality of the audio side of the unit is not commented on, and yet here, when reviewed in an audio magazine, there isn't any appreciation of the computing (ripping, normalisation, encoding etc.) side of the equation.

The more I think about this, the more I believe that if Empeg/Rio/WhateverThey'reCalledToday want to sell to the mass market, they need to produce a booklet which goes into the dos and don'ts of MP3s, explains bit rates, ripping, normalisation and explains quality and high frequency dropoff and also provides instructions on getting the best quality music into the Empeg.

Nick.

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18Gb blue (now AR red) - s/n 080000299 (original queue position 8724)

1 - "I'm thinking the reason that the rotary knob is on the right side is because the EC 6Gb is made in Britain, bastion of right-hand-drive cars"

Oh, for God's sake. It's an extra 6 flaming inches. Does it really matter? As a point of information, I use the buttons more than I use the knob anyway.

Calm down a bit, I see nothing in the review that says that it matters one way or another. It's just a bit unusual and they made a good guess why that might be.

2 - "The manager software missed some of the song titles I downloaded to the player"

More likely the tags weren't created correctly (i.e. user error). I rather suspect that if Emplode did this on a regular basis it would have been the subject of much discussion here.

It was.

A agree with your other comments.

Regards,
Borislav

In reply to:

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Calm down a bit

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OK. [FX takes deep breath] I just get a little fed up with people whinging over whether the empeg was designed for left or right hand drive cars. Sorry. I'll shut up now.

In reply to:

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It was.

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Whoops. Sorry. I missed the bit in the review where he said he was using version 1.0. Mea Culpa.

Nick.


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18Gb blue (now AR red) - s/n 080000299 (original queue position 8724)

A very good article.
The reviewer was honest and to the point.
And that is the point.
If any reviewer writes in this fashion, then the empeg speaks for itself... An awesome unique high quality product.

12Gb MKII 080000516 Blue

OK. [FX takes deep breath] I just get a little fed up with people whinging over whether the empeg was designed for left or right hand drive cars. Sorry. I'll shut up now.

He wasn't whining, just like borislav said. He just made an observation.

Anyways, I thought it was a good article. He makes a few observations that he doesn't continue with, which is kinda odd. For instance, he points out that there's a connector for an optional tuner, but doesn't mention that the tuner doesn't exist yet. He also talks about how great it will be when devices like this offer wireless connectivity. I guess he doesn't read the message board

The thing I like best is that, from what I can see, he didn't make the same glorious blunders that other reviewers have made. By this I mean reporting without research. He includes several quotes from empeg, either from the company or the website. He made an observation about the metal's finish, but included a contrary quote from empeg. After he said he had problems with the rotary knob on his unit, he mentioned that empeg was replacing knobs to people who experienced problems. Over-all, I think he did a good reporting job and had no really glaring errors.

I also think that this is a better approach to reviewing the empeg if they intend to sell to non-techies. The computer people who review it, as we have seen, spend time on their own personal preferences and prejudices (ie: why is it that every thing that's Linux these days gets ooo's and ahh's?), and they tend to loose sight of the intent of the product. This guy did a good job of reviewing it for the things people will want to buy it for. At least, that was my opinion.

DiGNAN

"The manager software missed some of the song titles I downloaded to the player"

More likely the tags weren't created correctly (i.e. user error). I rather suspect that if Emplode did this on a regular basis it would have been the subject of much discussion here.

I'm sure it was a classic case of the V1/V2 tag precedence bug, which has been discussed at length on this BBS already. Emplode takes the V2 tags as gospel, even if they're wrong and a correct V1 tag exists.

Personally, I would like to see Emplode optionally prompt for action if it senses un-synched V1 and V2 tags.

"Maximum unclipped output was 1.3 volts; while certainly workable, many folks prefer a higher voltage these days. (The company rates maximum output level at 3.6 volts without clipping.)"

Sounds like the WAV wasn't normalised before it was encoded.

Actually, if that were the case, I think the reviewer would have found the opposite effect. More likely, he was using a combination of loudness settings and EQ presets which brought some of the digital waveforms past 0db? I dunno. I'm not entirely clear on what that meant.

"Using test files coded at 192 kbps, frequency response was good, but there was some high-frequency droop."

Err. Yes. What do you expect? MP3 is a lossy encoding mechanism. Earlier in the review he states that he can hear the difference at low bit rates, so why bother doing the lab measurements on (relatively) low bit rate files?

Well, you have to understand that (a) this is a consumer-audio product review, and frequency response characteristics are a necessary part of the review, and (b) the Empeg's advertised capacities are based on that lower bit-rate so it's a fair cop.

I think the root of the problem is that the reviewer may not have been "up" on encoder technology, and didn't realize that it was his chosen encoder software which caused the so-called "high-frequency droop". The Empeg isn't responsible for it.

Still, it's fair to state it in a review because all a consumer cares about is how it sounds coming out the speakers. Doesn't matter at what stage the frequency loss happened, he still has a duty to report it.



Overall, I liked the review a lot. I think he definitely "got it", and it's obvious that he did all his fact-checking and spent some quality time with the unit before writing the review.

___________
Tony Fabris

I liked it too, and it was this knd of review that turned me onto the empeg in the first place...I never knew about the player before December....

Technoweenie
12 GB Blue / Red MK2

As a result of feedback from the review, small improvements have been made to the audio output circuitry - later versions have improved channel separation and less high frequency roll-off; hopefully we'll get one of the later units to them for a small retest soon. Some of what they saw may well have been encoder performance though; without WAV playback it's hard to do definitive audio tests.

Hugo

Ok, the real reason for the rotary control being on the right:

The plastics for the Mk2 were done very late - and we couldn't afford not to ship the mk2, as rather a lot of money had gone into the production (Steve was looking particularly white for those few months, but managed to hold it all together :) ). So, as a last-ditch backup plan, we planned to be able to switch to a slightly modified mk1 panel if required. The only spare space on the mk1 was to the right of the display.

You'll notice that the hex standoffs and the buttons are in *exactly* the same place as they are on the mk1, which is why some people have managed to pretty successfully fit mk2 panels onto mk1 players :)

Hugo

I think Ken made a good job of the review, definitely the best I've seen so far. He "got it" far better than most reviewers, probably because he went to the effort of installing the unit in his car. He is also very knowledgable on the audio side of the technology.

I was amazed he printed my responses to his early comments and fact checking - very impressive. The only thing he didn't move on was the maximum output voltage, which we strongly disagree with.

Rob

I'll point out that I talked Hugo and Steve into backing the moulded panel as a direct result of feedback from the BBS. What you guys have to say does count!

Then again if I'd realised at the time how much work I was taking on...

Rob

"backing the moulded panel as a direct result of feedback from the BBS"
Yes! it would be right thing to do!
Even better, you could do like my Blaupunkt Las Vegas unit, which has a pair of diamond button arrangements on the left side... that would be PERFECT.

Umm.. backing as in agreeing to develop it.

Rob

Rob,

Can you clarify the maximum voltage statement. I thought the empeg has 4V in car outputs, and 1V at home. What's the truth here?

Calvin

5)"Gigabyte is usually abbreviated as GB, with both letters capitalized, but empeg's style is to go with "Gb.""

Can't say i've seen GB used much, besides B is for Bit, b for byte. I'd feel pretty ripped if empeg were selling their models by GigaBit capacity.

The car outputs are 3.6V peak but in the car audio industry this is generically refered to as 4V outputs. Ken claimed to observe that the outputs distorted above 1.6V - if this was true then you would not be able to turn the volume above about half way without getting distortion.

I don't know why he observed this. Perhaps he had a large +ve EQ adjustment or loudness setting, or perhaps his player was faulty. Whatever the reason, we stand by our 3.6V figure.

Rob

Actually, sounds like they measured the pair of RCA home outputs, rather than the outputs intended for use in the car. You might want to contact the testers and verify that they used the car outputs, as last I heard they were quite different.

I don't get distortion at full volume (I believe that's +10 dB), and that's with crappy factory Honda speakers. In fact, that's with crappy factory Honda minivan speakers.

DiGNAN

They did claim to have measured the appropriate outputs, but I would wonder if that's the case.

Rob