#258312 - 15/06/2005 22:45
time for a new laptop?
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 30/04/2000
Posts: 3810
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My HP Omnibook 510 (from the now defunct HP laptop division that was dropped when they merged with Compaq) has given me good service, but the built-in 802.11b wireless basically sucks. It's got short range and the lame driver (which shows no signs of being updated) has a habit of wedging my machine. That and I recently dropped it, causing an ugly but cosmetic-only crack in a corner. Time for something new.
Critical features I have to have:
- 3 pounds or maybe less (sadly, no Apple products fit the bill)
- 3 year comprehensive warranty (to fix it after I abuse it)
- normal pitched keyboard (knocks out many of the cool Japanese models)
- 1GB of RAM
- CompactFlash (either native or via PCMCIA adapter) for my digital camera
- 802.11b/g
- USB 2.0, maybe firewire, definitely Ethernet and modem
- VGA out (for PowerPoint presentations)
Bonus points for bigger hard drives or longer battery life. I don't need any kind of CD/DVD support.
Poking around, the Dell Lattitude X1 comes pretty close. $2231 gets me 1.2GB of RAM and a 60GB disk (is anything larger available that's 8mm thick?). It's got a CF slot. That includes three years of CompleteCare warranty coverage. Could well do the job.
An IBM/Lenovo X41 tablet PC is also an intriguing option. You get a faster CPU and the whole tablet thing, which I guess could be cool for Photoshop use, but it's a little heavier and you end up spending a little more money ($2486) for the same sort of warranty. Plus, you only get a 40GB disk. The fingerprint reader seems like a gimmic.
Edit: you can get a 60GB disk, but only from a reseller. The IBM/Lenovo web site only sells the 40GB model. CDW.com, for one, has some 17 different variants to choose from, but no custom configurator, and no way to know what the specific features are for many of these variants. Very frustrating.
Toshiba has the Portege M200 (tablet) and R200 (notebook) computers. The tablets are 4.4+ pounds, so they're out of the running. The notebooks are much lighter (2.7 or 2.8 pounds), have a magnesium case, and a 60GB disk. To get a configuration similar to the Dell, including warranty, you end up paying $2516, but you get a free Epson Stylus C86 printer and a free Netgear wireless DSL router (after mail-in rebate). I could probably get some use out of the printer, but the router doesn't do much for me.
The Sony Vaio T-Series has a smaller 10.6" screen, although it's apparently very bright. You get integrated EDGE (i.e., high-speed GSM data) and a MemoryStick slot. Not very interesting to me. You get a built-in CD or DVD burner, depending on the model. Don't need it. It's much more expensive than the competition. Probably not the right laptop for me.
HP, so far as I can tell, doesn't offer a single laptop anywhere near three pounds. They'll sell you a ~3 pound tablet PC, but to get it near my specs, it becomes far too expensive.
So, based on what I've seen so far, the competition seems to be between the Dell X1 and the IBM/Lenovo X41.
Meta-observation: each of these vendor web sites is just awful. It's quite difficult to answer even basic questions like "is there a PCMCIA slot?"
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#258313 - 15/06/2005 23:34
Re: time for a new laptop?
[Re: DWallach]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 29/08/2000
Posts: 14496
Loc: Canada
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Well the 4lb limit knocks my (superb!) Dell Inspiron 9300 out of the running. But for anyone else wanting a (relatively) cheap 1920x1200 display in a Linux compatible (BIG) 8lb notebook..
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#258314 - 15/06/2005 23:44
Re: time for a new laptop?
[Re: DWallach]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 12/11/2001
Posts: 7738
Loc: Toronto, CANADA
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Too bad you need something smaller/lighter. Because I've yet to see or hear of any notebook that comes close to an Apple for look, feel and usability. The sub-notebook is definitely a market where Apple has missed out on a great opportunity.
Bruno
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#258315 - 16/06/2005 08:51
Re: time for a new laptop?
[Re: DWallach]
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member
Registered: 06/04/2000
Posts: 158
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I had a similar kind of spec sheet last year, with the extra that I did want a DVD player. I couldn't find anything, and decided eventually to compromise on the keyboard. Got a Fujitsu P7010. Love it, thoroughly recommended.
I decided in the end to give up on the keyboard because that was the thing that seemed to be the overall size determinant - seems that the manufacturers work it as "ok, if we're going on a full size keyboard, that gives us lots of empty space in the chassis, so we might as well shove it full of stuff".
My reasoning was that if I am really going to be doing a lot of typing in a fixed place I can plug in an external keyboard and mouse for $40 or less.
Regards
Mark
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#258316 - 16/06/2005 13:34
Re: time for a new laptop?
[Re: DWallach]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 10/06/1999
Posts: 5916
Loc: Wivenhoe, Essex, UK
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I haven't seen an X41, but I did play with an X40 for a few hours the other day (which I believe is very similar apart from the rotating screen). I am a bit of a Dell fan, but I was impressed by just how much better built the IBM was than my current Dell.
_________________________
Remind me to change my signature to something more interesting someday
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#258317 - 16/06/2005 14:30
Re: time for a new laptop?
[Re: andy]
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old hand
Registered: 27/02/2003
Posts: 777
Loc: Washington, DC metro
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We have fleet of about 75 Thinkpads, and with few exceptions, they just keep going. About a third of them are 4 (or more) years old. They are not used lightly, either - they are "desktop replacements" for the users. We've replaced a couple dozen keyboards over the years - the letters are just painted on, not an inlay, and do wear off. Well, OK, there was the time the employee showed up at the gate with one too many carry-ons, and checked the briefcase with the laptop... Idiot.  She got a replacement desktop. I just hope Lenovo keeps the standards up. -jk
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#258318 - 16/06/2005 15:02
Re: time for a new laptop?
[Re: hybrid8]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 30/04/2000
Posts: 3810
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Quote:
Too bad you need something smaller/lighter. Because I've yet to see or hear of any notebook that comes close to an Apple for look, feel and usability. The sub-notebook is definitely a market where Apple has missed out on a great opportunity.
Yeah, tell me about it. Part of me wants to tough it out for a couple more months to see if Apple releases a subnotebook or their rumored tablet PC. Most likely, Apple would wait until they had the low-power Pentium M's, which means a year wait.
Stupid ThinkPad question: what are the two keys above the arrow keys mapped to? One has a left-ish arrow and the other has a right-ish arrow. Is there some easy way to just make those be page-up and page-down? I use page-up/page-down all the time and having those keys up in the corner just seems lame.
Random Apple speculation: if Apple were going to do some sort of tablet PC based on Intel, then the IBM X41 would be an obvious development and testing platform, particularly with IBM standardizing components to the point that you can move system images across their different laptops. That means that OS X for Intel could well have all the driver support necessary to run (eventually) on the X41. The question is what sort of gross hackery would be necessary to install it there if Apple tries to lock OS X to their own hardware?
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#258319 - 16/06/2005 15:28
Re: time for a new laptop?
[Re: DWallach]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 12/02/2002
Posts: 2298
Loc: Berkeley, California
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The arrow keys are by default mapped to backwards and forwards in your web browser. I'm not sure how dificult it is to change, I'll check next time I'm on my girlfriend's laptop if no one else has mentioned it. The lack of page up/down is one of the more frusterating things about my powerbook. (Anyone know how to make my enter key a fn key?)
Matthew
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#258320 - 16/06/2005 16:14
Re: time for a new laptop?
[Re: DWallach]
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old hand
Registered: 27/02/2003
Posts: 777
Loc: Washington, DC metro
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You can remap single key presses in the registry in XP or 2003. There's a guy who wrote a key scanning/registry editor to simplify it. I haven't used it myself, but I hear it's pretty good. -jk
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#258321 - 16/06/2005 16:35
Re: time for a new laptop?
[Re: jmwking]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31602
Loc: Seattle, WA
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Okay, that's a cool trick. I just killed my caps lock key with extreme prejudice. Me like.
Very very cool. Thanks for that link.
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#258322 - 16/06/2005 16:37
Re: time for a new laptop?
[Re: tfabris]
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old hand
Registered: 27/02/2003
Posts: 777
Loc: Washington, DC metro
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Oops. Just don't kill a key you need in your login password. Good thing I have a spare login...
-jk
Edit: hit the damned button too soon.
Edited by jmwking (16/06/2005 16:39)
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#258323 - 16/06/2005 16:56
Re: time for a new laptop?
[Re: jmwking]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 19/01/2002
Posts: 3584
Loc: Columbus, OH
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Two of the guys in our office have the Latitude X300 (last year's version of the X1) and they adore them! They both have the media base that includes the DVD drive and all the extra ports. When they leave the office, it's simply a matter of popping it off the base and walking away, with no cords to unplug ever.
For some inconceivable reason, there doesn't seem to be a media base for the X1.
If it were me, I'd buy an X300 and upgrade the memory and hard drive. The only downside to that is the warranty.
EDIT: It looks like you can get an X300 from the Dell Outlet with 60gig and 1128meg with Dell's 3 year warranty.
Edited by JBjorgen (16/06/2005 17:24)
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#258324 - 16/06/2005 17:05
Re: time for a new laptop?
[Re: JBjorgen]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31602
Loc: Seattle, WA
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Quote:
the media base that includes the DVD drive
Which misses the coolest thing about a laptop with a DVD drive... roadtrip movie player...
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#258325 - 16/06/2005 17:16
Re: time for a new laptop?
[Re: tfabris]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 19/01/2002
Posts: 3584
Loc: Columbus, OH
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There's an external that comes with it as well...same as the X1.
The major advantage of having the second one in the media base is that the majority of the time when you're using CD's to install software, rip music, etc...you're doing it from your desk, and you don't have to fish out your external drive. Plus you don't have to pack your drive up whenever you leave, you can just leave it in your notebook bag.
Then again...for someone who's truly mobile (no single place where they use the notebook often enough to justify a port replicator), there are certainly better solutions.
_________________________
~ John
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#258326 - 16/06/2005 17:28
Re: time for a new laptop?
[Re: JBjorgen]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 30/04/2000
Posts: 3810
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If the laptop is your sole computer, then you clearly need a DVD drive. If you've got a desktop, then you can share the DVD over the network. To watch movies on the road, you can always rip the movie. (For me, I'd rather spend the extra disk space on music, not movies.)
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#258327 - 16/06/2005 17:40
Re: time for a new laptop?
[Re: JBjorgen]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 30/10/2000
Posts: 4931
Loc: New Jersey, USA
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Quote:
Two of the guys in our office have the Latitude X300 (last year's version of the X1)
I have the X200 (even older version than X300). Best laptop I have ever owned and it's one of the slowest (as far as clock speed). I don't have the media bay, but I do have the external combo drive. I bought the laptop almost 3 years ago as a refurb and haven't had a single problem. It even still has the stock Windows XP install on it (never re-installed!).
The only problem is hard drive upgradeablility. It looks like a total pain in the ass and you can only use drives of a limited thickness.
The X200 is made by Samsung (their model number is Q-10). I don't know if Samsung also makes the X300 and X1.
_________________________
-Rob Riccardelli
80GB 16MB MK2 090000736
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#258328 - 16/06/2005 18:13
Re: time for a new laptop?
[Re: robricc]
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addict
Registered: 23/09/2000
Posts: 498
Loc: Virginia, USA
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Quote:
The X200 is made by Samsung (their model number is Q-10). I don't know if Samsung also makes the X300 and X1.
Yes, Samsung makes the X1. Nice machine from what I've read.
Notebook Review is a good site for doing research. Also, Mobile magazine did a roundup of subnotebooks in the current issue. (The print magazine had more info then the web site I believe.)
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#258329 - 16/06/2005 19:09
Re: time for a new laptop?
[Re: DWallach]
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enthusiast
Registered: 11/06/2003
Posts: 384
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Quote:
Meta-observation: each of these vendor web sites is just awful. It's quite difficult to answer even basic questions like "is there a PCMCIA slot?"
For Thinkpads there is the "Personal Systems Reference Thinkpad Notebooks", which the June 2005 version is available on the IBM site. I hope Levono continues to maintain it.
The key to thinkpads is the model-type number, which is four digits-three letters. The X41 tablet (1866) contains "One Type I or one Type II / CardBus Plus 32-bit / PCMCIA 2.1 / integrated door"
--Nathan
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#258330 - 16/06/2005 21:00
Re: time for a new laptop?
[Re: Mataglap]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 30/04/2000
Posts: 3810
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Quote:
For Thinkpads there is the "Personal Systems Reference Thinkpad Notebooks", which the June 2005 version is available on the IBM site. I hope Levono continues to maintain it.
That's exactly what I was looking for! Among other things, I didn't realize that the Thinkpad X41 comes in a tablet and a non-tablet variant. Why don't they have this information presented in any sort of useful way on their normal web site?
Sadly, it looks like they don't provide a number of options that you might reasonably want. Once you've decided you want the 60GB disk, you can't get the "educational" version any more (meaning I might be giving up on a discount of some sort) and you've only got two configurations to choose from. Hmm....
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#258331 - 16/06/2005 21:07
Re: time for a new laptop?
[Re: DWallach]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 12/02/2002
Posts: 2298
Loc: Berkeley, California
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I've got to agree, I convinced my girlfriend to buy a thinkpad, only to find that IBM's website and priceing structure were far more arcane than Dells, which I thought was bad enough. With Dell, you price out your laptop in the four available stores, apply all coupons and see where you are. With IBM, there's only one store, but every model has who knows how many different variants, and each variant allows different things to be customized. The different variants are not all centrally linked.
I didn't deal with them on the phone, but I hear the salespeople are helpfull, so you might as well give them a call. The telephone support post-purchase was very quick and helpful on the only minor issue the machine has had so far. Why more companies don't go to the "submit request online, get a call back in half an hour from the support rep" I don't know.
In short, good machine, good support, bad website.
Matthew
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#258332 - 16/06/2005 23:34
Re: time for a new laptop?
[Re: DWallach]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 19/09/2002
Posts: 2494
Loc: East Coast, USA
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I'll be ordering an X1 for one of my staff members, so I'll let you know how it is. Of course, my only other experience with a sub notebook (besides endless Toshiba Portiges that I've drooled over) is an HP Omnibook 600C. The built in mouse is the coolest laptop feature ever, next to the lift-up keyboard of the IBM ThinkPad 760XD. Man, I never should have sold that.....
_________________________
- FireFox31 110gig MKIIa (30+80), Eutronix lights, 32 meg stacked RAM, Filener orange gel lens, Greenlights Lit Buttons green set
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#258333 - 16/06/2005 23:56
Re: time for a new laptop?
[Re: FireFox31]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 23/09/2000
Posts: 3608
Loc: Minnetonka, MN
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No way the coolest feature ever was the butterfly keyboard. 
_________________________
Matt
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#258334 - 17/06/2005 00:53
Re: time for a new laptop?
[Re: FireFox31]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 30/04/2000
Posts: 3810
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My first laptop was an HP Omnibook 300 or 400 or something along those lines. No screen backlight. Greyscale only. It has the cool pop-out mouse, and they somehow smashed Win3.1 into a PCMCIA read-only memory card that it could boot from. I then bought a 200MB or thereabouts PCMCIA type 3 card. This was enough for me to run Quicken and a terminal emulator. It was small, tough, and a great laptop. After that, I had the same Omnibook 600-series. Color screen. Real hard drive. Ran Win95 and friends. I added in some kind of cheesy Ethernet card and that machine got me all the way through graduate school. The only major screwup was that the VGA output tried to auto-detect if you had a projector, which didn't work with about half of the projectors at the time. Otherwise, a fine machine.
Once I finished grad school, it was on to the Sony Vaio 505G or GX. Basically, Sony's first and still amazing subnotebook. The only stupidity was the big ugly dongle you needed to get VGA output. That eventually crapped out and I got the Omnibook 500 and later 510 after the 500 had self-destructed enough times. In many respects, the Omnibook 500-series really got things right. Nice rubberized pads for your hands. No sharp corners. Very clever design, just dumb, crapola device driver support, and now lost in the HP/Compaq merger.
I definitely want to hear how that Dell X1 works out. I'm not buying tomorrow or anything, but if I did, I'd be leaning toward the ThinkPad X41 Tablet. The tablet functionality, at no extra weight, seems worth getting to play with.
Amusing footnote: shortly after I got to Rice, I went along on a research pitch to Dell (hitting them up for money to support our work). They never gave us any money, but they were remarking at my Sony 505. "Don't you need a CD?" "Naah, I've got all that back in the office." At the time, the lightest Dell laptop was stil in the 6-7 pound range. A few years later, they finally caved and started offering subnotebooks.
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#258335 - 17/06/2005 05:16
Re: time for a new laptop?
[Re: DWallach]
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veteran
Registered: 01/10/2001
Posts: 1307
Loc: Amsterdam, The Netherlands
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Quote:
My first laptop was an HP Omnibook 300 or 400 or something along those lines.
...
After that, I had the same Omnibook 600-series.
...
Once I finished grad school, it was on to the Sony Vaio 505G or GX.
Interesting ! I went Omnibook 300 -> 600 -> Vaio 505 as well, but then unfortunately stuck with Sony (now on a PCG-6), but I am pretty sure this will be my last Sony... Loved the pop-out HP mouse!
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#258336 - 17/06/2005 06:00
Re: time for a new laptop?
[Re: DWallach]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 17/12/2000
Posts: 2665
Loc: Manteca, California
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I'd recomend one of the sony S series. It seems to meet the requirements.
I have the s150, one of the first of the line. I've had no problems with it.
_________________________
Glenn
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#258337 - 17/06/2005 06:46
Re: time for a new laptop?
[Re: gbeer]
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veteran
Registered: 01/10/2001
Posts: 1307
Loc: Amsterdam, The Netherlands
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The problem with Sony is that their stuff gets obsoleted rather quickly, and support for older models is poor.
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#258338 - 17/06/2005 20:17
Re: time for a new laptop?
[Re: DWallach]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 12/02/2002
Posts: 2298
Loc: Berkeley, California
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Quote:
Once you've decided you want the 60GB disk, you can't get the "educational" version any more (meaning I might be giving up on a discount of some sort) and you've only got two configurations to choose from. Hmm....
Oddly enough, my student store is stocking the 1866-6SU configuration, which apperently isn't an "educational" model. It's $2299, which doesn't look like much of a deal. Sure looks like a nice bundle of features, however. The other thing of note was that the specs listed say the base model weighs 3.5lbs and the 1866-6SU weighs 4lbs.
Matthew
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#258339 - 18/06/2005 00:43
Re: time for a new laptop?
[Re: julf]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 17/12/2000
Posts: 2665
Loc: Manteca, California
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Quote:
The problem with Sony is that their stuff gets obsoleted rather quickly, and support for older models is poor.
Yeah, Sony does tend to discontinue models quite quickly. But the difference in specs of my S150 are not all that different from the current model.
Thing is all the other brands I've bought, died before they had a chance to be obsolete. The Sony's are still running. One had it's PCMCIA socket smashed off the motherboard. I removed all the bits and except for that not working, it still runs fine. My neice uses it around the house for web browsing.
In terms of support, I'm curious what is it about Sony's support for older models that you find a problem? Repair? Parts? Driver updates?
Edit: I kind of think obsolete and Laptop are redundant. I don't think I've seen one that wasn't obsolete, in some aspect, within days of their debut.
Edited by gbeer (18/06/2005 00:46)
_________________________
Glenn
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#258340 - 18/06/2005 02:31
Re: time for a new laptop?
[Re: DWallach]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 19/09/2002
Posts: 2494
Loc: East Coast, USA
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I ordered the X1 today through educational pricing for $1800, but that's using a discount from late-May that I'd locked in using an E-quote, and it has less options than you wanted.
However, I priced an X1 through the Dell Educational Purchase Plan (EPP) which allows people affiliated with a Dell-purchasing university to get decent discounts. The same X1, was $1700 or something, thanks to 12% discount and $150 mail in rebate (and $100 instant rebate for purchasing online?). A call to Dell regarding all the confusing rebates revealed: They are running back-to-school specials now, which, as the sales rep said, "is like Christmas for computer sellers."
Try the Dell EPP Customer Sales at 1-800-695-8133 - Option 2 to see if you can get a deal. Then, for the better online pricing, buy through the EPP via: dell.com > Higher Education > "Faculty, Students & Staff Personal Purchases" > "If you do not know your member ID..." > Notebooks > X1 > amazingly low "starting" price. Good luck.
_________________________
- FireFox31 110gig MKIIa (30+80), Eutronix lights, 32 meg stacked RAM, Filener orange gel lens, Greenlights Lit Buttons green set
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#258341 - 18/06/2005 06:52
Re: time for a new laptop?
[Re: gbeer]
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veteran
Registered: 01/10/2001
Posts: 1307
Loc: Amsterdam, The Netherlands
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Quote:
In terms of support, I'm curious what is it about Sony's support for older models that you find a problem? Repair? Parts? Driver updates?
Parts mostly. Things like new batteries, plugs, accessories etc.
I tend to run Linux, so drivers are not here nor there...
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#258342 - 19/06/2005 13:47
Re: time for a new laptop?
[Re: julf]
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addict
Registered: 23/09/2000
Posts: 498
Loc: Virginia, USA
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Quote:
Quote:
In terms of support, I'm curious what is it about Sony's support for older models that you find a problem? Repair? Parts? Driver updates?
Parts mostly. Things like new batteries, plugs, accessories etc.
I tend to run Linux, so drivers are not here nor there...
Sony really ticks me off with their price gouging on accessories. $250 for a battery! $100 for an AC adapter! It's a big reason why I won't buy Sony laptops.
And they make other customer unfriendly choices. My friend has a nice Centrino class Sony laptop he bought about 18 months ago. In most ways the machine is still up to date and there isn't a reason to upgrade. But he would like to change the 802.11b to Intel's 802.11b/g chip. Nope. It's soldered on the motherboard instead of being mini-pci card. He also tried to upgrade the hard drive and OMG was that an ordeal. Many vendors (Dell, Compaq) put their hard drives behind easily accessible panels. Sony buries it in the machine and the reassembly is nearly impossible because of a very fragile ribbon connector that must be reattached. He broke it and Sony wanted something like $100 to just look at the machine before they would even give him a price for the repair. And Sony wouldn't send him just the part. He had to spend way too much time tracking this part down from a local service center. What would have been a 5 minute job on a Dell cost many, many hours of time and 2 weeks of not having a working laptop.
Unfortunately, Sony has brought their planned obsolescence model from consumer electronics to computers.
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#258343 - 19/06/2005 19:01
Re: time for a new laptop?
[Re: Dylan]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 17/12/2000
Posts: 2665
Loc: Manteca, California
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I guess the concept of upgrading a laptop just eludes me. Especially the smaller light weight models I prefer. The parts are just so tightly integrated, nothing is really interchangable. Customized batteries are one of my pet peaves. I don't think I've seen two model laptops that used a common battery pack.
Not being able to run LInux, that's a problem I can respect.
_________________________
Glenn
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#258344 - 20/06/2005 13:08
Re: time for a new laptop?
[Re: gbeer]
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addict
Registered: 23/09/2000
Posts: 498
Loc: Virginia, USA
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Quote:
I guess the concept of upgrading a laptop just eludes me. Especially the smaller light weight models I prefer. The parts are just so tightly integrated, nothing is really interchangable.
I'm not expecting to change the CPU or video chip in my notebook (although some high end desktop replacements are starting to make that easier), but upgrading the hard drive and RAM are the key to extending the usable lifetime of a computer. I don't think I've ever gone for more than a year before I'm ready to increase both of those.
My point about Sony compared to Dell/Compaq/IBM is that those latter vendors often make it a design goal to allow the user to perform the basic upgrades. Sony's designs regarding upgrades often range from not caring to seemingly going out of their way to make it difficult.
Sony makes customer unfriendly choices in other ways, too. I remember reading complaints that Sony didn't make XP drivers for their proprietary hardware which shipped with Windows ME even though these were still relatively new machines when XP became MS's consumer OS.
I also happen to be a bit annoyed at Apple right now as I look at the difficulty of replacing the HDD in my PowerBook. Fortunately, with Apple products you can find step by step instructions with pictures while my friend had to largely wing it with his Sony.
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Customized batteries are one of my pet peaves. I don't think I've seen two model laptops that used a common battery pack.
Yeah, wouldn't that be great? At least they don't have to blatently rip you off because they've got you trapped. Dell/Compaq tend to be in the range of $100 for a battery and $40 for A/C. Apple is like $130 and $80 I believe. Then there is Sony giving the big FU with their $250 batteries.
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#258345 - 20/06/2005 14:18
Re: time for a new laptop?
[Re: Dylan]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 24/12/2001
Posts: 5528
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Quote:
I'm not expecting to change the CPU or video chip in my notebook
I've upgraded the video card on a Dell laptop before but that was because it was a daughterboard which could be swapped in about 5 minutes.
Quote:
My point about Sony compared to Dell/Compaq/IBM is that those latter vendors often make it a design goal to allow the user to perform the basic upgrades. Sony's designs regarding upgrades often range from not caring to seemingly going out of their way to make it difficult.
Dell appear to have the design goal that it's easy to upgrade purely because the system is built to order and only happens when you place the order. It makes it easier for their staff to construct the laptop from the various interchangable bits.
Very few laptop manufacturers actually make the laptop. They usually contract it out to one of the big laptop manufacturers like Compal. Unless they want a specific design like Apple then they can buy an off the shelf kit as it were. Nearly all the Dell models are off the shelf. You can find no name ones which look nearly identical.
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Sony makes customer unfriendly choices in other ways, too. I remember reading complaints that Sony didn't make XP drivers for their proprietary hardware which shipped with Windows ME even though these were still relatively new machines when XP became MS's consumer OS.
No problems like that for my old VAIO. Took a month or two after XP to come out and they released a new BIOS and a set of drivers and applications for XP. Just need to log into the Club VAIO site and download it.
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#258346 - 01/07/2005 22:06
Re: time for a new laptop?
[Re: DWallach]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 19/09/2002
Posts: 2494
Loc: East Coast, USA
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I got my two new X1's at work and got to play with one for a short while. Wow, it is very light (2.5 lbs?) and quite compact. It wasn't running your fully loaded specs, but I can still make some general observations about it:
The left and right track pad buttons take some getting used to. I kept tapping the track pad because they are so thin.
The words on the screen at the default resolution are pretty hard to read. You'd be quite hunched over while working on it.
Not much connectivity. No PCMCIA, only SD and CF. No PS/2, only one USB and a questionable kind of USB. But, bluetooth and WiFi work.
The DVD and floppy use an external drive bay with some crazy USB+proprietary connector. The bay adds bulk and is one more thing to worry about.
The keyboard is nice. The screen doesn't latch shut. It doesn't run too hot. It seems pretty darn fast for being 1.1ghz Pentium M. It did the Office 2003 install in no time.
That's about all I can think of. Nice little laptop. Too bad about no PCMCIA though; not sure how I'll get cellular internet (for remote places where WiFi is not available). Maybe using a cell phone as a modem.
_________________________
- FireFox31 110gig MKIIa (30+80), Eutronix lights, 32 meg stacked RAM, Filener orange gel lens, Greenlights Lit Buttons green set
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#258347 - 01/07/2005 22:56
Re: time for a new laptop?
[Re: FireFox31]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 17/12/2000
Posts: 2665
Loc: Manteca, California
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What happened to those ultralight Sony, what was it x505 laptops? They seem to have dropped off the face of the Sony website.
_________________________
Glenn
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#258348 - 02/07/2005 18:14
Re: time for a new laptop?
[Re: gbeer]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 30/04/2000
Posts: 3810
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Dynamism still offers it, but for almost $3000 after you've added the 802.11g card. And, that's only got a 10.4" screen, a 20GB disk, and 512MB of RAM. I played with one at a Sony store when they were (briefly) available domestically. It's a marvel of engineering, but I disliked the keyboard feel. If I could get one for $1000, I'd buy it in a snap. You're paying an extreme premium for, in effect, is only a single pound of weight reduction relative to the competition.
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#258349 - 02/07/2005 19:37
Re: time for a new laptop?
[Re: Mataglap]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 30/04/2000
Posts: 3810
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I went back and checked that comprehensive PDF, and it seems that IBM/Lenovo is now offering two different wireless solutions. Their default uses an Intel miniPCI card (with either b/g or a/b/g support), but now they offer a brand new variant with an Atheros AR5004X board (a/b/g support) versus the Intel 82533 Centrino chipset. If you Google for either chipset, you don' t come up with very much, although Atheros claims support for various draft standards (e.g., 802.11n), which means it might actually be a vaguely more future-proof solution. Further confusing matters, if you actually want to buy the Atheros model (1866-6tu), things get even weirder. Google was able to find me an order page for all the tablet variants that there appears to be no other way to reach. Next week, I'll try getting somebody on the phone who can explain this all to me. Among other mysteries is what kinds of discount is available on the "educational" models. While some machines have significant discounts, most others have less exciting discounts, typically $100-$200 off a $2000 laptop. Nothing is published yet about X41 tablet discounts, but if you look at the specs of the educational models and their list prices versus the normal models and their list prices, you get more features for the same money on the non-educational models. My guess is that the "discounts" merely get the prices back down to where they should have been in the first place, and the only actual benefits of buying from the educational program are that you get Microsoft OneNote and some kind of encyclopedia/dictiionary/etc. software.
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#258350 - 02/07/2005 19:55
Re: time for a new laptop?
[Re: DWallach]
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enthusiast
Registered: 11/06/2003
Posts: 384
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Well, part of it used to be that IBM made up larger quanties of certain variants and used those variants and supplies for things like "get it tomorrow", extended support lifetimes, different supply chains and distribution channels, corporate supply offers (so you could get the exact same model for years, after it normally would be end-of-lifed), and the educational discounts. I don't know what Levano is doing.
Not every model is available through every channel, which would effect the discount at various points.
--Nathan
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#258351 - 02/07/2005 23:26
Re: time for a new laptop?
[Re: DWallach]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 17/12/2000
Posts: 2665
Loc: Manteca, California
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Quote:
Dynamism still offers it, but for almost $3000 after you've added the 802.11g card. And, that's only got a 10.4" screen, a 20GB disk, and 512MB of RAM. I played with one at a Sony store when they were (briefly) available domestically. It's a marvel of engineering, but I disliked the keyboard feel. If I could get one for $1000, I'd buy it in a snap. You're paying an extreme premium for, in effect, is only a single pound of weight reduction relative to the competition.
For the same reasons you noted, I never really wanted one. Now if they had built one the size of the S series but as sharply thin. I'd give it more than one look.
No the thing that suprised me was that after having recieved so much noise, it has so completly dissapeared from Sony's web site. Not even the support areas show it. Almost as if it was banished.
_________________________
Glenn
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#258352 - 03/07/2005 15:04
Re: time for a new laptop?
[Re: Dylan]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 24/01/2002
Posts: 3937
Loc: Providence, RI
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Quote:
I also happen to be a bit annoyed at Apple right now as I look at the difficulty of replacing the HDD in my PowerBook. Fortunately, with Apple products you can find step by step instructions with pictures while my friend had to largely wing it with his Sony.
Try it with a clamshell iBook sometime. I had to break it down to parts.
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#258353 - 03/07/2005 19:11
Re: time for a new laptop?
[Re: Daria]
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addict
Registered: 10/11/2000
Posts: 497
Loc: Utah, USA
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Quote:
Try it with a clamshell iBook sometime. I had to break it down to parts.
I've got this year's iBook, but I don't think it's any easier. I tried to count the screws that I took out, but I lost track around forty-something.
_________________________
-Aaron
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#258354 - 05/07/2005 21:34
Re: time for a new laptop?
[Re: Mataglap]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 30/04/2000
Posts: 3810
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Quote:
Not every model is available through every channel, which would effect the discount at various points.
To further confuse matters, there's now some kind of "kit" that includes the top-of-the-line X41 Tablet, Microsoft One Note, and some kind of sleeve that you can put the computer in. The price for the kit, sold under the "express" label, is about $2000 -- fully $250 less than the same laptop, by itself, sold under the "normal" label. But wait... I clicked the "options" button, where you might normally tweak things, like buying an extended warranty, but it didn't work; however, it would happily add the kit to my shopping cart.
So, I decided to call them up. The main 800-number guy said "oh, you're educational / government, so you need to call this other number." Fine. The guy answering that line said "I'm new here, so I'll forward you to the rep. for Texas." Then, an answering machine. Who knew that buying a laptop from IBM/Lenovo was so difficult?
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#258355 - 18/08/2005 12:51
Re: time for a new laptop?
[Re: DWallach]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 30/04/2000
Posts: 3810
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Continuing our story...
Last month, we ordered the X41 Tablet, top of the line model with all the gadget and gee-gaws. The educational price came out to $1750 - a fantastic price - to which we added the no-matter-what warranty and a spare battery. I think the final price was around $2100. Fast forward to today. Still no laptop. We'd gotten some feedback, at some point, that they were having production problems. Now, they're flatly refusing our calls. We emailed the sales droid, asking to cancel our order. Five minutes later, the response, a single word, "cancelled".
Lenovo's web site currently says shipping in "2-4 weeks". Anyone have any experience with this? Should I surrender and look at other vendors?
Edit: here's a thread on TabletPCBuzz that shows lots of people waiting a long time to receive their orders. Looks like it's not just me.
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#258356 - 04/11/2005 13:59
Re: time for a new laptop?
[Re: DWallach]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 30/04/2000
Posts: 3810
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We ended up killing the original order and, eventually, reordering when the TabletPCBuzz crowd started seemed to be actually getting their orders. We got it maybe two weeks after ordering. So far, I'm loving this machine. The smaller battery still gets almost three hours of life when doing wireless web surfing. The bigger battery, at least for now, is sitting on my desk unused.
The fingerprint reader really does work. Nice toy, but not serious.
The tablet aspects are fantastic. When I was on the road and I needed to fill out some stupid PDF form, I "printed" it to Windows Journal, marked up, and "printed" it back to PDF for email. Nice.
Right now, the mystery to me is how to properly configure the power management stuff. I want the screen to automatically go dim when I'm on battery and then go to full brightness when plugged in. IBM has this "power manager" gizmo. I've set it to the "power source optimized" scheme, which in theory does what I want. However, the screen brightness seems not to be sensitive to anything that I set here. Any thoughts on how to fix this?
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#258357 - 04/11/2005 23:10
Re: time for a new laptop?
[Re: DWallach]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
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Check the normal Windows power management control panel. On my Sony, it has to have a "scheme" selected that tells it to use the Sony utility's settings.
_________________________
Bitt Faulk
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#258358 - 05/11/2005 14:22
Re: time for a new laptop?
[Re: wfaulk]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 30/04/2000
Posts: 3810
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Quote:
Check the normal Windows power management control panel. On my Sony, it has to have a "scheme" selected that tells it to use the Sony utility's settings.
Tried that, but no good. Using the IBM "power manager", I made a new profile that had everything set just so. I then flipped back to the Microsoft "power options" and it was set to my profile (with the new name that I used in the IBM dialog box). Still, the screen brightness isn't doing what I want. The screen *is* dimming, but not down to the low-level that I want.
Hmm...
EDIT: if you go to the "Access IBM" screen and selct "Manage Your Display -> LCD display settings", it offers you "Brightness when running on batteries", for which you choices are "normal" or "high", as opposed to the 0-7 available elsewhere. Now, if there were only some way to override this thing.
Also, back to the SharpKeys references, from earlier in this thread. So far as I can tell, the web browser back and forward buttons are magic. They don't generate normal keycodes that SharpKeys can latch onto. However, I can at least turn my caps lock into a control key...
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#258359 - 05/11/2005 16:22
Re: time for a new laptop?
[Re: DWallach]
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enthusiast
Registered: 11/06/2003
Posts: 384
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Take a look for the Baterry MaxiMiser or something along those lines. If you have the IBM battery guage next to your system tray you can look at the schemes and kick off the Battery MaxiMiser Wizard. I don't know if there's a way to just edit those values without going through the wizard.
--Nathan
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#258360 - 08/11/2005 16:29
Re: time for a new laptop?
[Re: Mataglap]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 30/04/2000
Posts: 3810
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The latest: I still haven't gotten any traction on the screen dimming issue. I've given up on that for now. However, I copied all my files from the old laptop to the new one and realized that, despite both raw disks being the same size, my stuff didn't fit. Digging deeper, it seems that IBM is keeping a "hidden" partition with 4GB of assorted junk on it that sticks around for rescue and recovery things. There's also about 2GB of assorted IBM-specific folders on my C: drive (CMPNENTS, DRIVERS, IBMSHARE, IBMTOOLS, SUPPORT, VALUEADD). Questions: 1) I've already backed up all the C: drive junk. Which ones are safe to delete? 2) Should I back up and nuke that 4GB partition, or is it worth keeping around? I've certainly got better things to do with the space. 2a) How am I supposed to back it up? The partition is marked "hidden", which means that I can't convince diskpart or the GUI utility to assign it a drive letter. Microsoft has a Win2003 hotfix that would seem to offer the right functionality, but you can't just download it from them. If I could somehow get a copy of this utility, would it work on WinXP? *sigh*
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#258361 - 08/11/2005 18:06
Re: time for a new laptop?
[Re: DWallach]
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enthusiast
Registered: 11/06/2003
Posts: 384
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If you ever need support, they're going to ask you to go through tedious steps involving programs running out of the hidden partition. (That's what the big blue button above the keyboard is for. At least it's a blue button on my T42.) In my experience, the IBM/Lenovo/Thinkpad software and drivers are actually pretty decent. The software update tool works pretty well. The Access Connection stuff works really well with multiple network connections and switching between wired and wireless connections. Generally speaking, keeping the thinkpad drivers & programs up-to-date with the software update tool works out really well. I've never had an update cause problems, and in fact, many of the problems I've had were fixed by updating the relevant package. Decent Thinkpad XP reinstall notes. If you really want to trash that partition, just download a live linux distro like Knoppix and use that fdisk. trust me, it won't care. Overall, I've just accepted the disk space loss from all the IBM stuff, more of it has proven useful than not, and is necessary when you have to call tech support, even if they end up being useless as you'd expect. And I've found that IBM did a much better job of o/s integration than Gateway/Dell/Micron where doing a flatout reformat was necessary. --Nathan
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#258362 - 27/11/2005 18:53
Re: time for a new laptop?
[Re: Mataglap]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 24/12/2001
Posts: 5528
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I've just bought a Sony VAIO BX197XP and it is a bit quirky. It doesn't have dedicated Home, End, Page Up and Page Down keys for one. You have to use Fn and the arrow keys to generate those keycodes which is odd considering this is supposed to be a business laptop. There is plenty of room around the edges of the keyboard to fit the keys in as well so it isn't due to lack of room. Does anybody else have a laptop that has missing keys? I've remapped the context menu and right ctrl keys to act as Page Up and Page Down as I use them quite often. Not sure what I'll do wit the Home nad End keys. Might just have to learn to live with it as I can't really identify that many other spare keys to take over. The fan hardly ever turns off as well but I talked to a friend who has a similar laptop and he said also that the fan on his is pretty much always on. I got the laptop yesterday and the fan was on the whole time I used it. It was only this morning when I powered it up again that the fan stayed off but that was because the room and the laptop were both very cold. Apart from that, it appears to be quite a nice laptop. Excellent screen and the rest of the specs are good. Both HDs are easily accessible from the bottom via a large panel so no worries on changing those.
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#258363 - 27/11/2005 19:14
Re: time for a new laptop?
[Re: tman]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 18/01/2000
Posts: 5683
Loc: London, UK
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Quote:
It doesn't have dedicated Home, End, Page Up and Page Down keys for one.
Neither does my Vaio SRX87. You get used to the Fn+key mappings remarkably quickly.
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The fan hardly ever turns off as well
I don't suffer from that, but I've only got a P3-850 in my laptop.
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Both HDs are easily accessible
Only got a single HD in mine, but it was under an easily removable panel, so I swapped it out. It was a 4200rpm 20Gb; it's now a 7200rpm 60Gb, which is plenty for what I'm using it for.
_________________________
-- roger
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