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#242423 - 23/11/2004 19:46 Mouse challenge
Dignan
carpal tunnel

Registered: 08/03/2000
Posts: 12341
Loc: Sterling, VA
I've become dependent on the crappy software of Logitech. It sucks. I hate every bit of software that Logitech has created (although I LOVE their products), but there's one feature in their mouse software that I absolutely live by: the ability to re-map the additional mouse buttons.

On my mouseman at home, I have the standard double-click applied to the thumb button. However, I have my scroll wheel click action mapped to open the start menu. I swear it speeds up my productivity like crazy.

However, at work, I'm stuck with a little Dell wheelmouse. The challenge to you wise folks: how do I remap my scroll wheel? I can't even begin to say how useless the default MS functions are. Grrr! Please, help me increase my productivity!
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Matt

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#242424 - 23/11/2004 19:51 Re: Mouse challenge [Re: Dignan]
JBjorgen
carpal tunnel

Registered: 19/01/2002
Posts: 3584
Loc: Columbus, OH
I have my thumb button remapped the the browser "Back" function. Seems to speed up web browsing tremendously. I too go nuts when it's not there. Kinda like using an old mouse with no wheel.
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~ John

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#242425 - 23/11/2004 20:21 Re: Mouse challenge [Re: JBjorgen]
Dignan
carpal tunnel

Registered: 08/03/2000
Posts: 12341
Loc: Sterling, VA
I think I'd use a button like that, but I depend SO much on the double click that it's highly annoying when using a normal mouse.

I could get one of the new Logitechs, and I want to, but I have a single complaint that keeps me from buying any of them: I love having the tumb button on the side-bottom, not the side-top. The thumb button is always there and I don't need to move my thumb at all to use it. I know it seems tiny, but given the number of times I use it at one sitting, I know it would make for a frustrating experience.
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Matt

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#242426 - 23/11/2004 20:33 Re: Mouse challenge [Re: Dignan]
JBjorgen
carpal tunnel

Registered: 19/01/2002
Posts: 3584
Loc: Columbus, OH
Yikes...I hadn't noticed that they did that. I have the original Cordless Mouseman Optical, and you're correct, it's in a perfect spot ergonomically at the bottom.
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~ John

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#242427 - 23/11/2004 22:27 Re: Mouse challenge [Re: Dignan]
hybrid8
carpal tunnel

Registered: 12/11/2001
Posts: 7738
Loc: Toronto, CANADA
For Mac OS there are two programs to do what you want, USB Overdrive and Gamepad Companion. I'm sure there must be something by now for Windows. Though i do know that when I looked a few years ago (because the MS software was even more useless then) there wasn't anything that worked with anything but 2 or 3 buttons (which, in my best New York accent, "is retaaded.")

Sorry that I can't give you the name of a specific Windows program. I'll keep an eye on this thread though because I too want to know. I'm quite used to the new Logitech mice, though I can only use the normal buttons, scroll wheel and thumb buttons. The other top buttons are completely useless unless you take your hand off the mouse.

Bruno
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Bruno
Twisted Melon : Fine Mac OS Software

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#242428 - 24/11/2004 00:22 Re: Mouse challenge [Re: JBjorgen]
Dignan
carpal tunnel

Registered: 08/03/2000
Posts: 12341
Loc: Sterling, VA
Quote:
Yikes...I hadn't noticed that they did that. I have the original Cordless Mouseman Optical, and you're correct, it's in a perfect spot ergonomically at the bottom.

Exactly. I have the exact same mouse and I'm thinking that when this one dies, I'm going to buy about three more off ebay. It's the best one I've ever used (personal preference, of course), and purely because of that button placement issue, I don't see myself "upgrading." It's too bad, too, because it would just be great to have this exact mouse in a rechargeable version. I hate having to replace batteries all the time, but I'll do it for this mouse.

Quote:
The other top buttons are completely useless unless you take your hand off the mouse.

I agree. I personally tend to alternate which finger (middle or index) I use to to scroll, but neither would feel comfortable with those buttons on either side of the scroll.

Anyway, thanks for taking interest. I've got feelers out in a couple other places, and I'm still looking around, so I'll let you know if I find anything.
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Matt

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#242429 - 24/11/2004 00:38 Re: Mouse challenge [Re: Dignan]
FireFox31
pooh-bah

Registered: 19/09/2002
Posts: 2494
Loc: East Coast, USA
Quote:
scroll wheel click action mapped to open the start menu

Ctrl-Esc = open the start menu. Same as the windows key, but if you're fortunate enough not to have one, good old Ctrl-Esc; been in Windows since 3.1 and probably before.

Just an outside the box thought, could you increase productivity by decreasing dependancy on the inaccuracies of the mouse? You could use the 100% accurate keyboard shortcut keys.

If I had a nickel for each time I tried to launch a program, but missed the icon and clicked on the desktop, requiring me to click through all those menus again; well, I'd have some nickels. But using keyboard shortcuts, I can "Ctrl-Esc, P, C, N" (Netscape) faster than any mouse user I know; software enhanced or not.

I find it tremendously time saving to never take my hand off the keyboard and move it to the mouse. Shortcut keys can do more than you'd think. (except I haven't found how to edit the contents of a cell in Excel yet. Shift-Enter? Beats me...)
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FireFox31
110gig MKIIa (30+80), Eutronix lights, 32 meg stacked RAM, Filener orange gel lens, Greenlights Lit Buttons green set

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#242430 - 24/11/2004 01:10 Re: Mouse challenge [Re: FireFox31]
Attack
addict

Registered: 01/03/2002
Posts: 599
Loc: Florida
Quote:
(except I haven't found how to edit the contents of a cell in Excel yet. Shift-Enter? Beats me...)


That would be F2

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#242431 - 24/11/2004 01:27 Re: Mouse challenge [Re: Attack]
ricin
veteran

Registered: 19/06/2000
Posts: 1495
Loc: US: CA
F2 is pretty much the universal "edit/rename" key in Windows. For example, in Explorer.
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MkII/080000565
MkIIa/010101253
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#242432 - 24/11/2004 02:24 Re: Mouse challenge [Re: FireFox31]
Dignan
carpal tunnel

Registered: 08/03/2000
Posts: 12341
Loc: Sterling, VA
Hey man, no keyboard shortcuts lecture needed here. I love them. They're great.

However, I can see by the shortcut you mentioned and the failure scenario you gave that you're talking about shortcuts in the Programs folder. I didn't say anything about that

What I do is place shortcuts to all my most used programs in the start menu. Those are pretty easy to see and click on.

Believe me, this method is great for me. You must remember that things like this really get down to personal preference. This is simply the fastest way to get to the programs I use most. Plus, at least in the Logitech implementation, after the click the mouse cursor always ends up on the start menu button, making it that much faster.

Quote:
Quote:
(except I haven't found how to edit the contents of a cell in Excel yet. Shift-Enter? Beats me...)

That would be F2

Even I knew that one
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Matt

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#242433 - 24/11/2004 05:07 Re: Mouse challenge [Re: Dignan]
gbeer
carpal tunnel

Registered: 17/12/2000
Posts: 2665
Loc: Manteca, California
I have an ms intellamouse. Its software allows mapping on a per program basis. In my browser the thumb button is BACK the right edge is FWD. In my cad program, left thumb is shift and thumb fwd is ctrl. I can do all mouse operations without a second hand on the keyboard. Sweet.
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Glenn

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#242434 - 24/11/2004 21:37 Re: Mouse challenge [Re: ricin]
FireFox31
pooh-bah

Registered: 19/09/2002
Posts: 2494
Loc: East Coast, USA
Quote:
F2 is pretty much the universal "edit/rename" key in Windows.

And the light shineth upon FireFox31, and he was blessed... with the knowledge of another shortcut.

Wonder how I never found that before with all the experimenting I do. Oh well, no more Alt-F,M or Shift-F10,M in Explorer!

Thanks for the tip. I should actually research shortcut keys, but that would destroy the fun of finding them by accident. Like how, today, I found Ctrl-Delete erases an entire line after the cursor. I was falling asleep at my desk at work and didn't realize my hand was on the Ctrl key when I hit delete and the entire line vanished.
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FireFox31
110gig MKIIa (30+80), Eutronix lights, 32 meg stacked RAM, Filener orange gel lens, Greenlights Lit Buttons green set

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#242435 - 25/11/2004 01:23 Re: Mouse challenge [Re: FireFox31]
Dignan
carpal tunnel

Registered: 08/03/2000
Posts: 12341
Loc: Sterling, VA
What I can't stand is when a program that uses multiple windws won't use Ctrl+W to close each one of them. In those instances, they usually insist on you using Ctrl+F4, which is simply insane and not really feasible for one-hand use. I usually have to situate my thumb over the right Ctrl and my pinky over the F4. Grr! It's the one thing I hate about Paint Shop Pro.
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Matt

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#242436 - 25/11/2004 09:16 Re: Mouse challenge [Re: Dignan]
Roger
carpal tunnel

Registered: 18/01/2000
Posts: 5683
Loc: London, UK
Quote:
they usually insist on you using Ctrl+F4 ... I usually have to situate my thumb over the right Ctrl and my pinky over the F4.


Left hand, dude. Left pinky on the left Ctrl key, and left index finger on the F4 key. Works for me.

And as for the fact that it's Ctrl+F4, blame IBM, probably.
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-- roger

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#242437 - 25/11/2004 15:16 Re: Mouse challenge [Re: Roger]
Dignan
carpal tunnel

Registered: 08/03/2000
Posts: 12341
Loc: Sterling, VA
Quote:
Left pinky on the left Ctrl key, and left index finger on the F4 key

Nah, tried that. It's too much contorting for me.
Quote:
And as for the fact that it's Ctrl+F4, blame IBM, probably.

It just gets to me when Ctrl+W goes unused within the program, so they made a decision to go with one rather than the other. Grrr. Oh well.

Does anyone who has a later copy of PSP than v7 tell me if this has changed? I'd love to be able to close the image I'm working on with Ctrl+W.
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Matt

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#242438 - 25/11/2004 16:10 Re: Mouse challenge [Re: Dignan]
bonzi
pooh-bah

Registered: 13/09/1999
Posts: 2401
Loc: Croatia
Quote:
Quote:
Left pinky on the left Ctrl key, and left index finger on the F4 key

Nah, tried that. It's too much contorting for me.

Thumb on ctrl, middle finger on F4 for me, but then, I can't really type (after almost 30 years)

Quote:
Does anyone who has a later copy of PSP than v7 tell me if this has changed? I'd love to be able to close the image I'm working on with Ctrl+W.

Nope. PSPv8: ctrl-F4 closes the image or other window, ctrl-W is bound to some of 'fit' commands (details depend on context).
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Dragi "Bonzi" Raos Q#5196 MkII #080000376, 18GB green MkIIa #040103247, 60GB blue

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#242440 - 26/11/2004 16:53 Re: Mouse challenge [Re: Roger]
wfaulk
carpal tunnel

Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
Quote:
Left pinky on the left Ctrl key, and left index finger on the F4 key.

Same for me, but, then, I have a keyboard with the control key in the proper place.

Quote:
And as for the fact that it's Ctrl+F4, blame IBM, probably.

Same with the control key.
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#242441 - 26/11/2004 17:12 Re: Mouse challenge [Re: wfaulk]
Dignan
carpal tunnel

Registered: 08/03/2000
Posts: 12341
Loc: Sterling, VA
Do you have a pic of that keyboard?

Bonzi, your way is one of the ones I use. Still, I don't like having to lift my entire arm to hit a stupid key combination. It's for that reason that I usually have my left thumb on the right Ctrl and my left pinky on the F4. It's a bit awkward, but it's better for me than lifting my elbow while I puruse and close dozens of windows.

I've actually sent a message to Jasc about this issue. I'm hoping they'll respond
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Matt

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#242442 - 26/11/2004 17:18 Re: Mouse challenge [Re: Dignan]
wfaulk
carpal tunnel

Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
No, but the one I use the most often, honestly, is a Sun Type 5 keyboard. You can find some keyboards with the control key left of the 'A', but they're more expensive, usually by a lot, but they're also usually much better constructed -- meaning you won't have to replace them every month.
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Bitt Faulk

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#242443 - 28/11/2004 02:21 Re: Mouse challenge [Re: wfaulk]
TigerJimmy
old hand

Registered: 15/02/2002
Posts: 1049
I must put in a plug for pckeyboard.com, who sell unicomp keyboards. Unicomp keyboards are the old "clackety" IBM style keyboards that last forever. I'm not affiliated with them in any way, except as a customer and user. You won't believe the difference a quality, "buckling spring" keyboard makes. Many different key layouts are available, including the one with the 20-some function keys.

Jim

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#242444 - 28/11/2004 11:44 Re: Mouse challenge [Re: TigerJimmy]
bonzi
pooh-bah

Registered: 13/09/1999
Posts: 2401
Loc: Croatia
Yeah, those are the keyboards as God intended them to be. However, the guy I share the room with at work is treatening use of force unless I find something quieter (he does'n like working with headphones on and, being our main guy for contacts wih external world, is often on the phone; no typing for me during conversations).
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Dragi "Bonzi" Raos Q#5196 MkII #080000376, 18GB green MkIIa #040103247, 60GB blue

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#242445 - 30/11/2004 16:30 Re: Mouse challenge [Re: Dignan]
Dignan
carpal tunnel

Registered: 08/03/2000
Posts: 12341
Loc: Sterling, VA
Well, here's an update on the original post. I haven't solved it yet, but I got a good suggestion which seems pretty obvious now. Even though I have a Dell mouse, it's such a generic one that MS Intellipoint will easily work with it. I just downloaded and installed it (selecting the basic "wheel mouse" as my hardware). This gives me nearly the same list of action options for each of the three buttons as Logitech's software does. Nearly. The only option thats missing, wouldn't you know it, is something like "Open start menu." There's even a choice for a keystroke, but if I try entering Ctrl+Esc, it opens the start menu and interupts the training.

It was also suggested to me that this feature was in an older version of Intellipoint, which seems even more odd to me. I would think that this thing I want to do is like the most Microsoft-centric thing I could imagine , but it doesn't appear possible.

*edit*
Well, I feel like a fool. I'm not sure why I thought it, but I just assumed that because I didn't have a Logitech mouse, naturally the Logitech software wouldn't work! Well I'm dumb It works just fine and now I've got the start menu coming up like I wanted it to. Duh!

Thanks for the help, folks.


Edited by Dignan17 (30/11/2004 17:21)
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Matt

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