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#240322 - 05/11/2004 15:38 The Gavin Effect
music
addict

Registered: 25/06/2002
Posts: 456
Does it all boil down to Gavin Newsom, the mayor of San Francisco?

Could this man really have been the first domino in a string of dominos that will strongly influence the course of this country and the world? (Admittedly, a tenous and convoluted string of dominos.)

The argument goes as follows.

Gavin Newsom allowed and encouraged gay marriages in San Francisco to much fanfare and press coverage, despite warnings from Sacramento.

These images incensed a large group of people in the Midwest and South who then put anti-gay-marriage amendments on the ballot in multiple states (eleven?), and then strongly motivated the church-based fundamentalist vote.

These people came out in force to vote against gay marriage, and while they were at the polls anyway, decided they might as well vote in Bush, a Republican House, and a Republican Senate.

This will ensure a high likelihood of the appointment of four or so rather conservative Supreme Court Justices in the next few years, thus altering the judicial landscape of the US for the next 30 years, and ironically, probably stalling the gay marriage movement for 20-30 years.

Apparently, a number of Democrats think so, and won't have their picture taken with him or be seen with him.

Personally, I think they could have gone for "civil unions" now, and then pushed for "marriage" within a decade or two. Now it seems likely that it will take another generation for them even to get much traction on the "civil union" front due to the large backlash.

Of course, the ramifications go far beyond this one small (though quite heated) domestic issue. It has created a shift of the US to the right on a broad spectrum of issues.

Could the political naivete of one man really have made such a significant impact on the world?

And if you do buy this argument, then how often does it happen that one person, taking incautious action on a local issue, involuntarily swings the course of the world?

And, of course, if you don't buy this argument, there's not much more to discuss other than saying you don't buy it.

Discuss amongst yourselves....

(I'd like to request that you keep the pro/con gay marriage discussions on the other two threads currently hosting them; I am really interested here only in the (potential) impact of one man shifting a large mass of people (the world) by behaving in a politically naive manner in order to make a statement at a local level.)

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#240323 - 05/11/2004 15:49 Re: The Gavin Effect [Re: music]
cushman
veteran

Registered: 21/01/2002
Posts: 1380
Loc: Erie, CO
Chaos theory, it happens every day.
_________________________
Mark Cushman

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#240324 - 05/11/2004 16:09 Re: The Gavin Effect [Re: music]
JeffS
carpal tunnel

Registered: 14/01/2002
Posts: 2858
Loc: Atlanta, GA
I think it's highly likely that Gavin had such a broad effect on the election and even helped shift the country to the right. Sometimes standing up for principles you believe in can have that effect, though the Democrats shouldn't blame the guy (unless they thought his actions were wrong to being with). If everything was on such a razor edge that simply causing a rally to arms around a single issue can cause such a shift, then it was bound to happen and some other minor effect could have caused the same result. His actions could have just as easily gone the other direction.

And really, this guy didn't necessarily change what the people of the US believed, he only caused them to reveal it a bit more than perhaps they would have.

Finally, who knows what the long-term effect will be. Maybe Bush will decide to invade France and then we'll get an even bigger shift to the left in retaliation. . .
_________________________
-Jeff
Rome did not create a great empire by having meetings; they did it by killing all those who opposed them.

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#240325 - 05/11/2004 16:51 Re: The Gavin Effect [Re: music]
matthew_k
pooh-bah

Registered: 12/02/2002
Posts: 2298
Loc: Berkeley, California
I just thought I'd add a relevant salon article which talks to Gavin Newsom about the issue.

The most interesting bit is the part about how San Francisco's actions took all the heat off of Massachusets, thus saving Kerry from having the two-guys-in-wedding-dresses-kissing pictures coming from his Liberal Home State.

Matthew

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#240326 - 05/11/2004 20:02 Re: The Gavin Effect [Re: matthew_k]
wfaulk
carpal tunnel

Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
I was just going to say. Didn't the Massachusetts thing happen before SF? And Vermont before them?
_________________________
Bitt Faulk

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#240327 - 05/11/2004 21:07 Re: The Gavin Effect [Re: JeffS]
mcomb
pooh-bah

Registered: 31/08/1999
Posts: 1649
Loc: San Carlos, CA
Quote:
Maybe Bush will decide to invade France and then we'll get an even bigger shift to the left in retaliation. . .


Nah, everyone knows we are all in favor of invading France. They are second on the list right after Canada.

I would agree that gay marriage issue probably swayed the presidential vote. I don't think Newsom should be blamed for it though, somebody has to be the one to initiate change. The timing just worked out badly.

-Mike
_________________________
EmpMenuX - ext3 filesystem - Empeg iTunes integration

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#240328 - 06/11/2004 08:52 Re: The Gavin Effect [Re: wfaulk]
matthew_k
pooh-bah

Registered: 12/02/2002
Posts: 2298
Loc: Berkeley, California
Quote:
I was just going to say. Didn't the Massachusetts thing happen before SF? And Vermont before them?

I believe (though I'm too drunk to research) that whatever court in Massachusetts probably said they had to before then, but the date set was actually after san francisco. Vermont I know nothing about, however.

Matthew

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#240329 - 06/11/2004 18:00 Re: The Gavin Effect [Re: wfaulk]
music
addict

Registered: 25/06/2002
Posts: 456
Quote:
I was just going to say. Didn't the Massachusetts thing happen before SF? And Vermont before them?



Actually, I think that perception here is more relevant than fact. Although Massachusetts is perceived in the breadbasket of America as a center of "Liberals," San Francisco is always thought of as Gay World Headquarters. Actually, even among the more broad-minded, since the 70's (or earlier), San Francisco has been a bit of a mecca for gay people who want to live in a society that won't just tolerate, but will embrace, their behavior and lifestyle. Granted, as tolerance has grown in recent decades, particularly around many other "gay enclaves" in this country, the view of San Francisco as the only gay paradise has become rather dated.(*)

However, in the minds of a surprising number of people in mid-America, the phrase "he lives in San Francisco" equals "he is gay." So while "liberal senator from Massachusetts" makes a good all-around anti-liberal punching bag, you really need a target from San Francisco to personify "the gay agenda."
You can imagine the Seinfeld-esque reference to be extended to something like, "you know he seemed like such a nice boy but, you know, mid-30's, neat, single, lives in San Francisco...."

A surprising number of tourists are a bit surprised, on first visiting San Francisco, that the rainbow flags, public displays of affection, and various other trappings of "gay San Francisco" are for the most part concentrated in a single neighborhood and that most San Francisco dwellers are in fact straight.


(*) I am not gay, and would not presume to speak for "all gay people" even if I were. So a lot of my perception of the "mecca" issue comes from a PBS program I saw where they interviewed various gay people from Alabama, Kansas, etc. who said it was always their dream to move to San Francisco, and they finally had. Probably a biased sample, though, since I think they only interviewed people who had moved to San Francisco, and not the millions who hadn't.

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