#239810 - 02/11/2004 12:51
Who exactly make up the Electoral College and why do we still have it?
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old hand
Registered: 14/01/2002
Posts: 931
Loc: Minnetonka, MN
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(and why did we not abandon the idea after the last election?)I hope this won't be an issue tonight, but I have a feeling it will.....
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#239811 - 02/11/2004 13:18
Re: Who exactly make up the Electoral College and why do we still have
[Re: burdell1]
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Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 08/02/2002
Posts: 3411
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As I understand it...
Each party selects its own set of electors that it thinks will vote for their candidates. Then whichever party's ticket wins the vote in that state gets to send their electors to the 'college', where they then cast their vote for (hopefully) that party's ticket. The only restriction that I know of is that they are not allowed to hold public office at the time of casting their electoral vote.
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#239812 - 02/11/2004 13:22
Re: Who exactly make up the Electoral College and why do we still have it?
[Re: burdell1]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 13/09/1999
Posts: 2401
Loc: Croatia
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It has been discussed here before, but anyway: - Citizens don't elect the President; states do. All states have delegated the right to choose electors to the voting population, but they did not have to, and they can change their mind. See, for example, here. (BTW, regardless of my usual agreement with AlterNet folks, I think the Supreme Court was right on this one.)
- Each state has the right to delegate as many people into Electoral College as they have members of Congress. In other words, smaller states have more that their proportional share (because of those two guys in the Senate). This was kind of compromise between "each state one vote" (good for smaller states) and "each citizen one vote" (better for more populous ones).
- From the previous two it is clear that states have the right to choose how will popular vote be reflected in the choice of delegates to the Electoral College. Most of the states have "winner takes all" approach. Several have proportional. (If all stated had proportional representation in Electoral College, there would be no "battleground states".)
- In most states parties appoint electors. Somewhere they appear on ballots. In one or two states the voters actually choose electors.
Now, why is this unlikely to change: - Small (populationwise) states like the present situation, because thay have up to three times bigger clout per voter than the most populous ones.
- Even the change to proportional representation (as opposed to "winner takes all"), which would mean that, for example, in Florida four years ago one electoral vote would be contested, not 25, is unlikely. This is bacause generally the same party that dominates presidential elections in a given state controls the stat assembly (or whatever it is called), and don't want to give, say, 40% of electoral votes to the competitors.
There are more details, some more cynical interpretations etc, but this is the gist of it and I have to go back to work. Cheers!
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Dragi "Bonzi" Raos
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MkIIa #040103247, 60GB blue
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#239813 - 02/11/2004 13:36
Re: Who exactly make up the Electoral College and why do we still have
[Re: bonzi]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
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I would now like to detail the specifics of the Croatian electoral process.
...
Umm.
...
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Bitt Faulk
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#239814 - 02/11/2004 14:42
Re: Who exactly make up the Electoral College and why do we still have
[Re: wfaulk]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 13/09/1999
Posts: 2401
Loc: Croatia
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_________________________
Dragi "Bonzi" Raos
Q#5196
MkII #080000376, 18GB green
MkIIa #040103247, 60GB blue
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#239815 - 02/11/2004 15:04
Re: Who exactly make up the Electoral College and why do we still have
[Re: burdell1]
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addict
Registered: 23/09/2000
Posts: 498
Loc: Virginia, USA
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The most compelling argument I've seen for the electoral college is that it favors a wider distribution of votes deciding the winner. The biggest impact of the system is that low density states get a vote that is disproportionate to their population. The U.S. is a big country with big differences in terrain, lifestyle, industry and culture. The electoral college forces the winner to have a somewhat broader appeal across these demographics.
I think it's a reasonable argument. My complaint is the all or nothing results for most states. I would like to see all states split it by congressional district with the extra two votes going to the majority.
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#239816 - 02/11/2004 15:36
Re: Who exactly make up the Electoral College and why do we still have
[Re: Dylan]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 27/06/1999
Posts: 7058
Loc: Pittsburgh, PA
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Quote:
The electoral college forces the winner to have a somewhat broader appeal across these demographics.
That might have been true before modern communications and polling allowed candidates to go after "swing states." The result is that not only are small states basically ignored, but larger non-competitive states like New York, California, and Texas get ignored as well. Since we'll never get rid of polling, the only way to ensure that candidates appeal to "a wide distribution" of Americans is to use a straight popular vote, so that my Dad's Bush vote in New York last week counts as much as my Kerry vote in Pennsylvania today (not that I'm at all upset by my advantage in this case, of course.)
This would, by extension, help voters in the small states, because their vote would count as much as mine. With the electoral college, *especially* with winner-take-all, those votes mean nothing.
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#239817 - 02/11/2004 15:53
Re: Who exactly make up the Electoral College and why do we still have
[Re: tonyc]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
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Nope, that just means that campaigns will be geared towards the urban voters. Do you think that any cadidate would spend time in Wyoming or North Dakota if he could be spending his time in New York and Chicago? Of course, it's not like WY or ND are getting much attention now....
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Bitt Faulk
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#239818 - 02/11/2004 17:07
Re: Who exactly make up the Electoral College and why do we still have
[Re: wfaulk]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 14/01/2002
Posts: 2858
Loc: Atlanta, GA
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This discussion reminds me of the story "Franchise" by Asimov where they get polling down to such a science that they only need one "vote" (though a vote in this case is answering a bunch of questions not seemingly related to the actual election itself) where the "voter" is determined by the computer in order to take into account the "human factor". Once the politicians figure out which city the voter lives in (which occurs only days before the actual vote, I believe) they descend on it in full force, still not knowing who the actual "voter" is.
The idea is the computer can extrapolate with all of the information who the people would have chosen if everyone had voted.
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-Jeff
Rome did not create a great empire by having meetings; they did it by killing all those who opposed them.
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#239819 - 02/11/2004 18:08
Re: Who exactly make up the Electoral College and why do we still have
[Re: tonyc]
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addict
Registered: 23/09/2000
Posts: 498
Loc: Virginia, USA
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The campaigning is aimed at wherever it's competitive but that doesn't change what's required to win.
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