All,

I was driving along this morning with the whole unit in shuffle mode (down, down, down), when it played a song that I hadn't heard for a long while (and I liked a lot!).

How can I get the empeg to :

1) play all songs by that artist (i.e. - "I haven't heard them for ages - they were excellent - give me all of their stuff again")
2) play the album that the song came from ("What an awesome album - give me more")

I'm undecided wether I want this as a new playlist, or simly inserted into the current playlist.

I get the feeling that I should be able to do (2) in 1.1 (but not 1.01), but i'm not sure.

Cheers,

Paul.

Paul Haigh, Reg. 4120
(mk1) 6GB, Blue, 00254
(mk2) 12GB, Red, 00357

You can already do both of these. The remote allows greater function and details are available here

when you tweak order, the next song is matched to the current type. pressing the same tweak type will match the successive song type and so on.

BTW debauch, nice 'stab'

____________________
Murray 06000047

> 2) play the album that the song came from ("What an awesome album - give me more")

just switch off shuffle mode and the empeg should continue playing the songs in the same album

Frank van Gestel

To clarify in more detail what's already been said in this thread...

play all songs by that artist

1) You can do a search on that artist using the remote control, and have it play every single song by that artist. This will interrupt the current song (although 1.1 will have an "insert" function, allowing us to do this without interrupting the current song).

2) You can also have it randomly choose another song from that artist by pressing the "2" key on the remote. This is one of the Tweak Order functions. The next song in the playlist will become another song by that artist, without interruping the current song. You can do this as many times as you like, and it will keep adding on more songs: press "2" ten times and you'll get ten more songs by that artist, assuming there's that many left in the current playlist.

3) In the upcoming version 1.1, you can turn off shuffle, and (assuming your playlist structure is set up correctly to allow it) it will drop you back into the sequential playlist in the middle of that artist's playlist tree.

Note that, depending on how your playlists are set up, the third option might work for you right now. For me, it only works intermittently because I have copies of the artist/album tree songs in other "mood" playlists. I anxiously await 1.1 for the new shuffle/un-shuffle behavior.

play the album that the song came from

Same as above, only substitute the "3" key on the remote for the "2" key to use the appropriate tweak order function, and substitute "search by source" for "search by artist".

___________
Tony Fabris

1) You can do a search on that artist using the remote control, and have it play every single song by that artist. This will interrupt the current song (although 1.1 will have an "insert" function, allowing us to do this without interrupting the current song).
Sorry to be picky, but this is way to fiddly to do when driving along at 100mph, unless there is a way to memorise the keystrokes (I find this a lot easier on the front buttons) I've already nearly had a crash simply because I looked down to see the name of the new song - my fault - I know.


2) You can also have it randomly choose another song from that artist by pressing the "2" key on the remote. This is one of the Tweak Order functions. The next song in the playlist will become another song by that artist, without interruping the current song. You can do this as many times as you like, and it will keep adding on more songs: press "2" ten times and you'll get ten more songs by that artist, assuming there's that many left in the current playlist.
This requires me to *know* how many songs I have by the artist? What happens when I exhaust the list, does it recycle?

3) In the upcoming version 1.1, you can turn off shuffle, and (assuming your playlist structure is set up correctly to allow it) it will drop you back into the sequential playlist in the middle of that artist's playlist tree.
But, in my case, all of my playlists are a single album - so this would only give me a single album worth - not the complete playlist.

Same as above, only substitute the "3" key on the remote for the "2" key to use the appropriate tweak order function, and substitute "search by source" for "search by artist".
But this requires me to search for the album - so I need to know the name, put the unit into search mode, put it into insert mode, key the name for the album and run the search. Again, this is a bit tricky at high speed.

Paul Haigh, Reg. 4120
(mk1) 6GB, Blue, 00254
(mk2) 12GB, Red, 00357

Solution . . . drive slower . Seriously, I think someone else mentioned that they drive slower now they have an Empeg. I have found much the same thing, am now more than happy to stick to the inside lane. Not because I am messing with the Empeg, more that I am relaxed being able to listen to whatever music I want, all at decent quality.

- --
Rod, UK Mk2 64gig Red S/No.341

You can do a search on that artist...
Sorry to be picky, but this is way to fiddly to do when driving along at 100mph, unless there is a way to memorise the keystrokes

Agreed. I was just listing the ways that it could be done. Alphanumeric searches are best done when stopped.

pressing the "2" key on the remote...
This requires me to *know* how many songs I have by the artist? What happens when I exhaust the list, does it recycle?

No, it just quits adding songs and puts up a brief "no matching artist" message. You can pound on that "2" key all day and it won't hurt anything.

They deliberately only search the remainder of the current playlist when using the tweak order functions, and this is one of the reasons for doing it that way.

you can turn off shuffle...
But, in my case, all of my playlists are a single album - so this would only give me a single album worth - not the complete playlist.

Right. I did say "assuming your playlist structure is set up correctly to allow it". In my humble opinion, you should consider creating a set of artist/album trees so you can take advantage of this feature in 1.1 when it comes out. Note that your artist/album trees will need to be ordered first in Emplode for it to work. It's very easy to move playlists around in Emplode and it would only take a few minutes to create your artist trees and order them correctly. If you do this, then both of the features you're asking for will be literally a single button-press (the "0" key on the remote to turn off shuffle).

___________
Tony Fabris

Thanks for the tip - it never occured to me...

Perhaps that's why the cars with the blue lights keep chasing me...

Cheers,

Paul.

Paul Haigh, Reg. 4120
(mk1) 6GB, Blue, 00254
(mk2) 12GB, Red, 00357

Tony, thanks for the response...

They deliberately only search the remainder of the current playlist when using the tweak order functions, and this is one of the reasons for doing it that way.

So this means that it'll only get songs from the current playlist right? So what If I'm listening to my 'Greatest Hits' playlist, which is the top 2 songs from every album that I have - the '2' key will only get songs from the current playlist - not from the rest of the empeg.

Right. I did say "assuming your playlist structure is set up correctly to allow it". In my humble opinion, you should consider creating a set of artist/album trees so you can take advantage of this feature in 1.1 when it comes out. Note that your artist/album trees will need to be ordered first in Emplode for it to work. It's very easy to move playlists around in Emplode and it would only take a few minutes to create your artist trees and order them correctly. If you do this, then both of the features you're asking for will be literally a single button-press (the "0" key on the remote to turn off shuffle).
Sorry, I should have been more clear - my structure is:
Root -> Artist -> Album Name -> Songs
Which is what you mean, right?

However, I can see how the '0' would drop me back to the album playlist, but not to the artist playlist - is this possible too - how does it know what level to go to?

Really all of this seems like a good use for the volume button - press it get a mini menu - 'Artist, Album, Genre'?

Cheers,

Paul.

Paul Haigh, Reg. 4120
(mk1) 6GB, Blue, 00254
(mk2) 12GB, Red, 00357

Would that be an Empeg owner with a Blue non-VR display trying to catch you to compare displays

- --
Rod, UK Mk2 64gig Red S/No.341

I really hope so... do they all drive white cars?

Paul Haigh, Reg. 4120
(mk1) 6GB, Blue, 00254
(mk2) 12GB, Red, 00357

However, I can see how the '0' would drop me back to the album playlist, but not to the artist playlist - is this possible too - how does it know what level to go to?

If you're playing the whole player, then the next album by that artist logically follows the current album by that artist. So, if you turn shuffle off, and land in the album, it'll run off the end into the next album by that artist. If it's the last album, it'll go into the next artist.




Roger - not necessarily speaking for empeg

If you're playing the whole player, then the next album by that artist logically follows the current album by that artist. So, if you turn shuffle off, and land in the album, it'll run off the end into the next album by that artist. If it's the last album, it'll go into the next artist.

This is only true if the song that I happen to hit is one from the first album though, right? Otherwise I'll miss albums and more to the next artist - which isn't what I wanted.

So, what I really want is a 'Find all songs by this artist', which doesn't seem possible.

Wouldn't I get an 'End of playlist' anyway?

What about the volume button idea, or are there plans for the vb anyway?

Cheers,

Paul.

Paul Haigh, Reg. 4120
(mk1) 6GB, Blue, 00254
(mk2) 12GB, Red, 00357

I agree with Paul. This functionality is greatly needed. I often listen to my whole unit in shuffle mode. It could take me a week to get through maybe even half of my list, and I might skip some songs that I want to hear later on without losing my place in the shuffle.

John

You can use the new bookmarking feature in v1.1 to remember your place in the shuffle. Then you turn shuffle off, listen to the rest of the album, then go back to where you were by loading the bookmark.



Roger - not necessarily speaking for empeg

So this means that it'll only get songs from the current playlist right? So what If I'm listening to my 'Greatest Hits' playlist, which is the top 2 songs from every album that I have - the '2' key will only get songs from the current playlist - not from the rest of the empeg.

Correct. But keep in mind that your initial example was based on shuffling the whole unit (you even said "down down down"), so my replies were based on that idea.

I do, however, like the idea that the Tweak Order functions could pull from the entire unit instead of just the current playlist. I think I even entered this as a wish list item (or maybe I considered it a bug). This would be neat, and then you could pound on the "2" or the "3" key no matter which playlist you were in and your problem is solved.

Sorry, I should have been more clear - my structure is: Root -> Artist -> Album Name -> Songs

Well then it's perfect already. When 1.1 comes out, make sure those artist trees are ordered first in the root directory (view/details, sort by ascending position, then make sure the artist trees start at the top of the list), and then pressing "0" will drop you into the sequential playlist (the entire unit) in the middle of that artist's catalog.

However, I can see how the '0' would drop me back to the album playlist, but not to the artist playlist - is this possible too - how does it know what level to go to?

I think you're misunderstanding how the shuffle works.

If you're playing the whole unit, it takes the entire playlist, all of the trees, and flattens them into a single list of songs, from start to finish, in order, and plays that list.

When you shuffle, it takes that flattened list, de-dupes it, and shuffles it. When you un-shuffle, it takes the original, flattened, un-duped, sequntial list (the one it had before shuffling), and puts that back into place "around" the current song you're listening to.

So not only will un-shuffling drop you back into that artist's catalog, it drops you back into the entire list of the whole unit, which you can traverse with the >>| and |<< buttons as always.

The only fly in the ointment (the fact that the presence of "mood" or "greatest hits" playlists with duplicate songs will intermittently confuse this behavior) will be fixed in 1.1 and then this will work perfectly.

As you pointed out elsewhere in the thread, "but what if I'm listening to the last song from the last album by that artist and I un-shuffle?".

Well, that's what the |<< button is for.

I know what your next question is: "But what if I don't want to have to press the previous track button fifty times?" Okay, then leave it in shuffle mode and press the "2" key to get a random song by that artist. I have to say, though, that most of the time when I hear a given song by an artist, my instinct is to want to hear the next song on that album. For example, when I'm listening to a Pink Floyd album, since their songs run into each other so smoothly, I usually just want to hear the rest of the album at that point. So I think that behavior is the correct behavior.

Then you say, "but what if I'm in the middle of a customized playlist that doesn't contain that whole artist's catalog?"

Now you're starting to get into the area of complexity versus capability in user interface design. Right now, there is a really simple user interface that allows you to select any playlist (including your artist trees) from the main menu, so why don't you just do that? Any feature allowing you to say "play this current artist's catalog please", although do-able, would, from a user interface point of view, be just as complicated as just picking the artist playlist from the main menu. There has to be a "simplicity" line drawn somewhere. (Although doing this from a voice recognition interface would rock.)

Keep in mind that we're talking about a device that's intended to be used in the car that has only has a limited number of buttons- but you're asking it to perform complex operations on a vast database of song information. There's only just so much you can do while keeping the user interface simple enough to be usable. Beyond that, you need a high-rez screen and a full keyboard, so you might as well just go plug your laptop into your car stereo.

___________
Tony Fabris

Tony,

Thanks for a great post. I think that I understand how it works.

However, there is a very simple UI design to give me all of the functionality that I want, without searching, relying on the order of your playlists, having to use the remote *at all*.

Use the volume button, to bring up a menu with three options:

1) Artist - gives us all of the songs on the empeg with the same artist
2) Album - as above, but just for the album - although I agree that this is also done via the '0' button
3) Genre - all songs on the empeg with the same genre as the current song.

I agree that you can do most of these things via the methods that you mention, but I think that this will be a lot more intuative with the above solution. I also appreciate that this isn't possible currently, and that I'll have to try the solutions as recommended.

I'm definitely open for ideas/comments.

Cheers,

Paul.

PS Please don't take this discussion the wrong way - I know that I have a habit of sounding agressive in just text....u

Paul Haigh, Reg. 4120
(mk1) 6GB, Blue, 00254
(mk2) 12GB, Red, 00357

I have only owned my Empeg for about 6 days and i'm still at the " OOhhhh look what else it can do stage" i don't know if this thread scares me or gives me hope

i don't know if this thread scares me or gives me hope

Don't worry, this thread is talking about a rather esoteric feature. It's one of those things that's come about because of the fact that the Empeg can store so much music and allows you to do some searches on that database. If the Empeg was like a CD player, we wouldn't even be asking these questions.

It's the "give 'em an inch and they'll ask for a mile" situation: Competitor's MP3 players don't even come close to the flexibility that the Empeg has for organizing and searching your music. What we're talking about here is further extending the already-very-powerful interface with even more powerful stuff.

___________
Tony Fabris

Use the volume button, to bring up a menu with three options:

I would never want to do it that way. Neither would most people who want their audio functions more accessible with the knob (which I believe is being added in 1.1). If it were an option, fine, I'll go with that.

Plus, I hate to be rude, but alot of your questions would have been answered rather quickly and easily if you had tested out those situations for yourself. I found that part of the fun was finding out precisely what the player would do in certain situations.

Frankly, I like how it works now. What you consider a UI design flaw I think of as working out rather well. Heck, I haven't even tried the tweak functions yet!

DiGNAN

I would never want to do it that way. Neither would most people who want their audio functions more accessible with the knob (which I believe is being added in 1.1). If it were an option, fine, I'll go with that.
I didn't realise that the volume knob had been earmarked for some functionality in 1.1 already - didn't see it mentioned in the recent 1.1 features thread, so fair enough I can see the problem here - although I would dispute that the searching functionality is less important than the audio functions - surely most people set up the EQ, etc less often than searching the empeg (although I appreciate that most people don't have this functionality yet)?

Plus, I hate to be rude, but alot of your questions would have been answered rather quickly and easily if you had tested out those situations for yourself. I found that part of the fun was finding out precisely what the player would do in certain situations.
Actually, I had spent a little time looking at this, which admittedly I didn't mention, but I couldn't see a way to do this without a search, which (bar the '2' and '0' methods) is still currently the case (although, thanks to Tony I certainly understand it a lot better - I needed to move my playlists). So I turned to the people who I know know the most about the empeg functionality.

I'm sorry that you feel that this was an unnecessary question.

Frankly, I like how it works now. What you consider a UI design flaw I think of as working out rather well. Heck, I haven't even tried the tweak functions yet!
Well, you are certainly allowed an opinion.

Given that I work in databases, one of the major questions that is always asked - how easily can I find what I want in the database? Given that (as tony says) that the Empeg has a large DB - up to 64GB remember - that could be as many as 1000 CD's - ways of quickly searching and finding information is crucial.

I thought that this feature would be a improvement in the way that we can search and find information on the empeg, not specifically a UI flaw or design failure.

Don't get me wrong here - I still like the empeg - in fact if I'd have bought this product from a different manufacturer, I'd have never even bothered to bring it up, but since empeg and more specifically this board, and it's members, are well renowned for being helpful and knowledgable, I thought that I'd mention it.

I'm very sorry if anyone thought that I approached this in the wrong manner, but I feel that searching a database of potentially 1000CD's in a quick a manner as possible is of vital importance to something like the empeg - particularly when said unit and user is moving at >30 MPH, something that most large capactiy devices do not do - (see Rio Receiver, PJ100, etc).

Anyway, on that note, I think that I'll leave this well alone.

Cheers,

Paul.


Paul Haigh, Reg. 4120
(mk1) 6GB, Blue, 00254
(mk2) 12GB, Red, 00357

Don't lose that feeling!

Don't be scared - having been a mk1 user and now a mk2 user, I'm just looking for more functionality with the empeg - there's not a big problem with the way that the empeg currently functions - it's just that we all strive to make products better, right? Especially ones that we care about and that we have been involved in for a while.

Cheers,

Paul.

Paul Haigh, Reg. 4120
(mk1) 6GB, Blue, 00254
(mk2) 12GB, Red, 00357

Don't worry, this thread is talking about a rather esoteric feature. It's one of those things that's come about because of the fact that the Empeg can store so much music and allows you to do some searches on that database. If the Empeg was like a CD player, we wouldn't even be asking these questions.
I agree that this functionality is needed because the empeg is a large capacity database. That's exactly what causes the need for more searching functionality.

As I mentioned in my other post - there are exactly Zero (0) other products that require you to search a potentially 1000CD database at 70+ mph with minimal amounts of looking at the screen for feedback. That's exactly why the functionality of the searching is so important (and I'm not talking about just this feature here)

It's the "give 'em an inch and they'll ask for a mile" situation: Competitor's MP3 players don't even come close to the flexibility that the Empeg has for organizing and searching your music.

Does this mean that we should always be happy with our 'lot'? I thought that this board was all about talking about the empeg and possible ways to make things better, etc.

I don't feel that asking for more extensive or easy to use enhancements to the 'already-powerful' interface is unreasonable.

What we're talking about here is further extending the already-very-powerful interface with even more powerful stuff.

Agreed, but remember, as I've said before, a database of ~1000CD's - possibly ~10,000 songs, is not a simple thing to navigate - ever - even given a laptop screen.

We all know that the empeg has a small screen and limited UI. We all live in the internet world, and hyperlinking is the stuff of the internet - finding stuff related to what we're looking at right now - that's all I'm really trying to convey with this.

I have found myself wanting to do this on a significant amount of occasions ( and, yes, this is because the empeg allows me to listen to random songs across my entire music collection), but I'm loathe to stop my journey, just to manipulate the empeg - hence the discussion.

Some of this functionality already exists - as you mentioned - and I'll certainly be trying this out, but I don't like using the remote very much (since it always seems to be where I'm not) and I was proposing a new solution - for discussion.

I've already pontificated at great length about this, as have you Tony, so perhaps we should leave it here.

Cheers,

Paul.

Paul Haigh, Reg. 4120
(mk1) 6GB, Blue, 00254
(mk2) 12GB, Red, 00357

alot of your questions

I didn't say all of your questions. I think you were right to ask about the search functions as those are not covered in the manual at length. However, you could have easily noticed that if you were playing a whole artist playlist, after the last song in an album is done, it goes on to the next album. You've got to use the player for a while and then see how much of you adapts to it before you can see how you want it to adapt to you.

I appreciate your complaints about these matters. At times there are some things I would like to be able to do but can't, and I agree with you on those points. I was just saying that if you had been using the player regularly, you would have noticed some of the behavior you were asking about. I don't think I posted questions on this board until I'd used the player for about a month and during four 2 1/2 hour car trips. After that I felt I had used it to my satisfaction, and even then I hadn't discovered all its features.

Again, don't get discouraged! empeg listens to their customers and judges wish list items carefully. Many requests there have been implemented!

although I would dispute that the searching functionality is less important than the audio functions

We aren't talking about the EQ as much here. I don't think there would be a very good way of setting the EQ while driving, even with the knob.

We're mainly talking about audio funtions like bass, treble, balance, and fader like you would find on most car stereos. All this was mentioned in the Wish List forum, which by your statements I gather you haven't been searching. I forget exactly how Hugo said the bass and treble would work, but many people have said they would like a quick and easy way of adjusting these settings, as MP3 files and a large collection of music both result in likely variations in these qualities from song to song. (wow that was a difficult sentence)

Anyway, continue to post your concerns and recomendations. I am sorry if I discouraged them in any way.

DiGNAN