Has anyone gotten one of these? I'm thinking of getting one for my
father for Christmas, but am looking for a little feedback, first.

AFAICT, SonicBLUE isn't shipping it yet. Their web page says "check
back later" and "coming soon". (very ugly and unusable, btw). The
Dell-badged model (at $299, or $249 with a system purchase) seems to be
shipping, though. I'd rather order the SonicBLUE one, if it is available...

Click in the bottom right corner of http://www.riohome.com/ for the (lack of) RIO information, or see the Dell model at http://www.dell.com/us/en/dhs/topics/center_tools_dac_tools_receiver.htm

TIA

-j

The Rio site isn't up together yet - and the product isn't shipping anyway.

The Dell site has very comphrensive details about their variant, and apparantly it is shipping. Since the specifications are practically identical which one you go for probably depends on which style you prefer, and how quickly you want it.

Rob

> The Rio site isn't up together yet - and the product isn't shipping anyway.

So one could assume that they won't be shipping by Christmas?

> The Dell site has very comphrensive details about their variant, and apparantly it is
> shipping. Since the specifications are practically identical which one you go for probably
> depends on which style you prefer, and how quickly you want it.

Yes, the Dell site answered most of my questions.

Are you saying that the Rio and Dell models differ only by the fascia? Are the rest of the
internals the same?

Thanks!

-j

> So one could assume that they won't be shipping by Christmas?

I don't know that - I know that the product is very close to shipping though.

> Are you saying that the Rio and Dell models differ only by the fascia? Are the rest of the
> internals the same?

As far as I know the differences are all cosmetic.

Rob

The included CD contains different applications too. The host/server software is the same, but there are differences in the install and included applications. The Dell model includes musicmatch where the Rio version does not.

Hey, hold it. You're not getting away that easily. Your profile lists your home page as RioHome. If true, that would make you a SonicBlue employee. Fess up, "time", who are you?

___________
Tony Fabris

Uh... I am a little confused. I've told many a friend about this Dell/Rio/Empeg Receiver thing and they started asking me questions I could not answer or find the information to. Does anyone here know the answers/location of the answers?

1) What is needed on the PC side to get the phone jack networking to work? Does the Receiver come with the proper hardware or is this a separate purchase? Will it interfere with preexisting Ethernet?

2) I know the software was designed by Empeg, but is there any crossover that would benefit Empeg owners? Database compatibility? Similar Interface, searching, etc.?

3) Again with the phone line... Are there any technical limitations? Distance from outlet interference? Number of simultaneous connections?

4) What sort of performance hit, if any, will be noticed on the serving PC side?

Thanks... I know many who are interested in this device for home/work solutions... Now if it were only wall mountable with a touch screen... Mmmmm.

Brian H. Johnson
MK2 36GB Blue
"Born to Lose..."

What is needed on the PC side to get the phone jack networking to work?

A 3Com HPNA card, similar to an ethernet card. If you locate the product at Dell's web site, they offer a bundle where they sell you the receiver and the card together.

Alternatively, if your house is already wired for ethernet, you can use that instead.

I know the software was designed by Empeg, but is there any crossover that would benefit Empeg owners? Database compatibility? Similar Interface, searching, etc.?

I'll bet it has the same UI. What I'd like to see is the Receiver automatically find a connected Empeg (even if it's plugged into the host PC via USB) and pull its database and stream the songs from it. That would rock. I don't know if it'll do that or not, but wouldn't that be cool?

Again with the phone line... Are there any technical limitations? Distance from outlet interference? Number of simultaneous connections?

I dunno. Poke around 3Com's site and see what you can come up with.

What sort of performance hit, if any, will be noticed on the serving PC side?

My guess would be that it'd be minimal. Don't try doing anything timing-critical (like competing in a Quake tournament), but I'd say that you could probably get away with just about anything else since the data stream would be just a trickle for most modern PC's. This is just a guess, though, I have no experience with it.

___________
Tony Fabris

Note that this is completely unofficial -- I'm mostly going from memory here.

I'll bet it has the same UI.

Firstly, the menus are vertical, not horizontal. The interface is otherwise similar. It's been simplified, though.

The format of the database is entirely different. It's optimised for querying large databases with a small memory footprint, where the disk is spun up.

You can select music by playlist (only one level deep, though), and by genre, artist and album. Once you've selected a genre, artist or album, you're prompted with a list of the tracks, or you can select all matching items. In this respect, it's slightly better than the empeg-car.

It's got searching similar to the car player.

It's got no visuals - the screen's not quick enough. It does have several different info layouts (which are stored on the server in binary files).

It's got simple bass/treble controls - there's no parametric EQ.

What I'd like to see is the Receiver automatically find a connected Empeg (even if it's plugged into the host PC via USB) and pull its database and stream the songs from it. That would rock. I don't know if it'll do that or not, but wouldn't that be cool?

It would require writing some custom server software, either on the Empeg (if it's a mk2), or as a proxy, to forward the requests over the USB (for the mk1). Don't think that I haven't thought about it -- remember - I don't have to reverse-engineer the Rio Receiver protocol .

What sort of performance hit, if any, will be noticed on the serving PC side?

It's generally minimal. Streaming the music uses almost no CPU (on my P3/850). Queries usually take somewhere between 20 and 30 percent CPU (they're done server-side).

But like Tony says, don't try competing in a Quake tournament - it's likely to make your music chop up .





Roger - not necessarily speaking for empeg

The format of the database is entirely different. It's optimised for querying large databases with a small memory footprint, where the disk is spun up.

You can select music by playlist (only one level deep, though), and by genre, artist and album. Once you've selected a genre, artist or album, you're prompted with a list of the tracks, or you can select all matching items. In this respect, it's slightly better than the empeg-car.


I'm assuming that you add tracks into the database using software on the PC. When you do this does it physically copy the track you give it, or does it just link to where the file already is no the PC's harddisk.

__
Unit serial number 47 (was 330 in the queue)...

It links to the current location.


Roger - not necessarily speaking for empeg

> > So one could assume that they won't be shipping by Christmas?
> I don't know that - I know that the product is very close to shipping though.

I expected that. So, I emailed the question to sales at SonicBLUE.
Their response:

We apologize but at this time we don't have any information on this product.
Please check back in early 2001.

eSales

So, I guess I'll just get the Dell one. I'll report here when I receive
it. (Yes, I'm going to try it out at home before I give it to him. :)

-j

> So, I guess I'll just get the Dell one. I'll report here when I receive it.

I got this a couple days ago. Here's my opinion(s) of it:

Overall, I like it a lot. There are a few usability quirks, and lots of the cool
functionality of the empeg-car devices are missing, but it stands well as
a product on its own.

As I said earlier in the thread, it cost $300 from Dell. They shipped a few
days after I ordered it. It arrived with all the needed cable, a poster showing
how to connect the audio cables (for a few different configurations), a simple
manual, a infrared remote, and a CD. The CD had the empeg software (this
is all I looked at) and some other ripping/encoding software (AudioCatalyst?).

I didn't have a windows machine, so I installed the server software in vmware
on linux. It loaded fine, but windows complained about having a bunch of files
replaced with "older versions" and told me to "run setup" to fix them. This was
an unimportant disk image, so I didn't worry about it... and all still worked fine. I'm
sure, though, if my father has the same experience he'll complain about it. (That's
what he gets for running windows...)

The windows software is a very simple interface. There's an icon in the tray which
tells you (by its color) whether it has connected with a player. Clicking on the icon
allows you to change the address assignment settings and add mp3's on your disk
to the database. This brings up a simple dialog that searches all the specified drives
and directories (C:\ by default) for mp3's, and reports how many it added. It is quite
quick, since it is probably just noting the location of those files.

There's also a "pause" option when right-clicking on the icon. When I tried this, nothing
happened to the playing, but the option changed to say "resume" (or something similar).
When I clicked on this, then it stopped playing. But, I couldn't do anything to get it back
and working again. I restarted the windows software, and rebooted the player, but the
player just gave a "connection refused error" (even though the tray icon was blue). I ended
up having to disconnect the player at the mains and completely reboot windows before it
started working again. I haven't tried that again...

The physical player was a surprise for me. Its dimensions are smaller than I had
expected: it is a little larger than half of the width of a standard stereo component.
It fit nicely in the spot I usually connect my Mk2 at home. The back has an ethernet
jack, an HPNA jack, a phone-passthrough jack, left & right spring-clip speaker
terminals, left & right RCA jacks, and a 1/4" phono jack.

I've only used the ethernet and RCA jacks. I didn't try the HPNA networking, or
use the amplified outputs.

There is also a power connector. On the front is a pushbutton power switch, which
seems to just put the unit in standby mode when turned "off". Disconnecting the power
directly loses the settings (such as display mode, etc.). I also noticed that the infrared
sensor is creatively hidden inside/behind the power button -- pretty neat.

The front consists of a backlit LCD display in the center, with three buttons (random,
menu, repeat) below it; a pushbutton/rotary (ala Mk2) control on the right; and a
four-button (play/pause, stop, ff, rw) cluster on the left. The rotary control is used
for navigating the (vertical) menus. The behavior seems backwards to me: clockwise
moves the menu "up"... but I'm sure that's a design decision that would always end
up displeasing half of the people. :) Maybe they should make it a config option?
The volume can only be changed when using the amplified outputs. I couldn't find any
way to attenuate the line-out.

The buttons themselves seem kind of cheesy. They feel light and almost breakable,
definitely not like the strong clicky feel of the Mk1 and Mk2 buttons. One quirk I also
noticed was that the left/right orientation of the random and repeat buttons is different
on the faceplate and the remote. This was a little confusing when going back and forth,
and not looking at the button labels.

The remote works well. I had plenty of range in my large living room. There's a 4-button
cluster in the middle that mirrors the play/pause/stop/etc. buttons on the face. There's a
full numeric keypad with the corresponding letter designations (like the car player). There's
a (rather small and oddly placed) up/down select button and menu/enter button arrangment;
it seems it would be nicer to have this work like the now-common four-way control cluster
on most remotes. There's also a search button (at the very bottom) that cycles between
select music by artist/genre/album/title.

The display is okay. I found it hard to read from far away (the display on my Mk2 is easier
to read), but not much worse than an average VCR. It is backlit when you press a button
(on face or remote), which turns off after a short timeout. There are a few (4?) display modes.
One, that displays everything (artist, title, album, encoding rate, and a large timer). Another,
that displays the title in a larger font. And two that display a small (1/4 of the screen) "scope",
one is reverse-video. Adequate.

The file serving works great. The is no database/playlist management whatsoever, don't
expect to have hierarchal playlists like the empeg-car. You can search by ID3 fields only.
But, since I mostly use my Mk2 in "shuffle everything" mode, I didn't care much. The only
quirk I noticed is that the player is silent when fast-forwarding or rewinding -- just the
elapsed time counter increments.

The above may seem like a lot of complaints, but they're just my small reactions to items
that were different than I had expected. Overall, I loved it. Worth every penny. I'm
sure it will be a slam-dunk gift for my dad -- a windows-head and audio buff. I told my
boss about it today, and he wants me to help outfit his new (big!) house with these... I can
already think of at least 6 places in his house where it'd be cool to have one.

-j

Also, don't forget that it is fully software upgradable. If you consider the first release of the car player software (which a few people here can remember) compared with the current functionality.. watch this space!

Rob

There's also a "pause" option when right-clicking on the icon.

That menu option pauses the server - not the player. It occasionally doesn't work, as you've described. However, it's not a terribly useful command, so I wouldn't worry about it.


Roger - not necessarily speaking for empeg

> Also, don't forget that it is fully software upgradable.

Yes, thanks. I didn't see any immediate way to do this via the existing server software,
although I suspect that will be documented with any future upgrades.

> If you consider the first release of the car player software (which a few people
> here can remember) compared with the current functionality.. watch this space!

I certainly know of the immense changes in functionality. (and certainly look forward
to seeing this continue with v1.1 and up).

I don't really see the impetus for Dell to supply upgrades to the product, and SonicBlue
(in my experience) hasn't really been interested in promoting the product at all. So, I
bought the unit without any expectation of improved software... it does what it is advertised
to do. But, if there is more featureful software on the horizon, that's sure a bonus.

Thanks for the feedback.

-j

The unit boots almost all of its software at power-on time from the PC, so you upgrade the PC software and the clients automagically upgrade.

Hugo

Is this thing designed in such a way that two clients could stream off of the same server? For example, could I have one PC feeding a client in the bedroom and one in the den?

-Aaron

That's the main point of it - one server can handle several clients. Because the clients are relatively low cost you may choose to put one in every room where listening would be convenient. The unit has both line outputs and an on-board amp, so if you have a hifi in the room you can connect to it, or otherwise drive speakers directly.

Rob

I was hoping that was the main point of it, because it would seem like a product without a point otherwise. There was nothing on the Dell website that indicated or even implied that this was the case, however. And of course the SonicBlue or RioHome websites are silent on the subject...

My thinking is that this aspect should be emphasized more, especially since that is the selling point in my opinion. Now that I know this definitively, my mind is reeling with the possibilities.

-Aaron

The Rio Receiver hasn't been launched yet. I can't comment on how Dell choose to market their product, and it's been a while since I looked at their site. I remember that it seemed very comprehensive though.

I do think the product has a point if you have just one of them. I have mine in my hifi cabinet in the lounge and use it regularly to play music stored on my PC which is in another room. Luckily the cabinet was already wired for ethernet, as my cable modem lives in there too (dont ask why). If it hadn't been I'd probably have used the PNA port instead.

I'm not sure I need another Receiver, but it might be cool to have one in the bedroom and use it to drive some small speakers direct (as I don't have a hifi in there).

If I had a large house I'd probably want several of them but, hey, I live in Cambridge so not much chance of that any time soon

Rob

Psk. At least you've got one, I didn't even manage to grab one before they all got taken home :(

(goes to sob himself to sleep in a corner)

Hugo

You have to be quick, it's like feeding time in the lion cage when there's kit up for grabs!

Rob