#171932 - 23/07/2003 23:17
I need a new TV; Recommendations?
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veteran
Registered: 19/06/2000
Posts: 1495
Loc: US: CA
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Ok, basically, I need a new TV. 
My current one is acting up, the RCA inputs don't work any more, plus it's about 15 years old.
There are a ton of nice TVs out now, and I just can't seem to decide on one. So, I figure I'll take all the input I can get and make a more educated decision later on.
So, here's my criteria:
- At least 50"
- 16:9 aspect ratio screen.
- DVI and composite input(s).
- No projectors, I'm saving that for when I get a house, and I think I already know which one I'm getting.
Well, that's it. Fire away.
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Donato MkII/080000565 MkIIa/010101253 ricin.us
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#171933 - 24/07/2003 06:59
Re: I need a new TV; Recommendations?
[Re: ricin]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 30/04/2000
Posts: 3810
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You didn't say anything about price. If you don't mind spending big bucks, you can get a nice plasma TV that fits your criteria. You can spend the least money buying a traditional three-gun CRT rear-projection set. There are also newer rear projectors based on DLP or LCD mechanisms (basically, the same gear as a DLP or LCD front-projector, but built into a box with a mirror and a big screen).
If you find a DLP or LCD-based rear projector that you like, and it's a similar price to the CRT projector, I'd probably prefer the DLP or LCD. The main benefits are you never have to converge the thing or worry about burn-in. The main flaw is you occasionally need to replace the expensive bulb.
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#171934 - 24/07/2003 08:15
Re: I need a new TV; Recommendations?
[Re: ricin]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31602
Loc: Seattle, WA
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No projectors Please specify. Do you mean no rear-projectors either, or just no front-projectors? Because your other requirements, although do-able, will be extremely expensive if you're not talking about a rear-projector.
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#171935 - 24/07/2003 08:18
Re: I need a new TV; Recommendations?
[Re: ricin]
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old hand
Registered: 20/03/2002
Posts: 729
Loc: Palo Alto, CA
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The Gateway TVs really are a fantastic deal. They have just about every input you can imagine. The only problem with them is that they aren't quite HDTV resolution (except for the 50" which is what you're looking for anyway). But they are about half the price of most other Plasma TVs.
- trs
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- trs
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#171936 - 24/07/2003 08:26
Re: I need a new TV; Recommendations?
[Re: DWallach]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31602
Loc: Seattle, WA
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If you find a DLP or LCD-based rear projector that you like, and it's a similar price to the CRT projector, I'd probably prefer the DLP or LCD. The main benefits are you never have to converge the thing or worry about burn-in. The main flaw is you occasionally need to replace the expensive bulb. Since I own a CRT-based rear projector, I wanted to add one other difference between DLP/LCD projectors and CRT projectors. I agree with what you said, but there's one difference that's important to remember:
At the current time, I haven't yet seen a DLP or LCD based rear projector that has full HD resolution (which is 1920x1080 pixels). Most of them are 1024x768 chips which use image proecessing to squeeze a 1080i high-def image into that rez.
A similar amount of image processing happens on regular-size images, too, since standard TV and even DVDs don't match the 768 lines of those DLP/LCD panels.
The CRT based rear projectors, on the other hand, will actually change the raster scan rate of the CRTs to exactly match the number of lines of the incoming image in the case of a 1080i input. So for high def, you'll simply get a more accurate, less processed picture, with more detail, on a CRT-based projector.
I'm waiting for DLPs and LCDs to do the native 1080i resolution in the consumer price range. Because honestly, I'm sick of the baggage that comes with a CRT-based projector. All the things that were already mentioned: Burn-in, convergence, and needing to color-balance the three guns as they age.
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#171937 - 24/07/2003 08:33
Re: I need a new TV; Recommendations?
[Re: trs24]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31602
Loc: Seattle, WA
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The Gateway TVs really are a fantastic deal. They have just about every input you can imagine. The only problem with them is that they aren't quite HDTV resolution (except for the 50" which is what you're looking for anyway). Actually, looking at the specs on the Gateway 50 inch plasma TV, it also does not do HDTV resolution either. From their FAQ...
The onboard digital scaling engine accepts various computer signals and maps them to fit within 1366 X 768 pixels. So it's got the same limitations regarding HD resolution as the LCD/DLP rear-projectors.
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#171938 - 24/07/2003 09:22
Re: I need a new TV; Recommendations?
[Re: DWallach]
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veteran
Registered: 19/06/2000
Posts: 1495
Loc: US: CA
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Well, I don't want to limit myself by setting a price. I do have a soft budget of about 2500 though, so anything around that is probably what I'll stick to. As for As to the CRT vs. LCD, that's what I don't know about. I'd like to hear everyone's opinions as to which is better and why, etc.
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#171939 - 24/07/2003 09:24
Re: I need a new TV; Recommendations?
[Re: tfabris]
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veteran
Registered: 19/06/2000
Posts: 1495
Loc: US: CA
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Sorry, I meant no front-projectors. My apartment isn't all that large, so I'd like to have a self-contained TV.
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Donato MkII/080000565 MkIIa/010101253 ricin.us
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#171940 - 24/07/2003 09:32
Re: I need a new TV; Recommendations?
[Re: tfabris]
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old hand
Registered: 20/03/2002
Posts: 729
Loc: Palo Alto, CA
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Actually, looking at the specs on the Gateway 50 inch plasma TV, it also does not do HDTV resolution either. From their FAQ... I believe that section of the FAQ is referring to hooking up your computer to the TV itself - not to HDTV compatibility. Technically, the TV is HD because it fits the "vertical scanning lines of 720 progressive (720p)" requirement - but it must use the scaling for all 1080i HDTV formatted broadcasts. The other Plasma TV's that gateway offers have a much smaller resolution and use the digital scaling to reduce the signal down to 852 x 480 for both 720p and 1080i - as outlined in their additional specifications for the smaller plasma TVs.
- trs
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- trs
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#171941 - 24/07/2003 14:06
Re: I need a new TV; Recommendations?
[Re: trs24]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31602
Loc: Seattle, WA
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Technically, the TV is HD because it fits the "vertical scanning lines of 720 progressive (720p)" requirement And if my grandmother had wheels, she'd technically be a wagon.
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#171942 - 24/07/2003 14:18
Re: I need a new TV; Recommendations?
[Re: tfabris]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 08/06/1999
Posts: 7868
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I really want to see how a 1080i signal would work properly on a non CRT monitor...
1080P technology is still very expensive, so 720p capable non CRT units are very capable of being excellent HDTV units.
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#171943 - 24/07/2003 14:25
Re: I need a new TV; Recommendations?
[Re: drakino]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31602
Loc: Seattle, WA
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I really want to see how a 1080i signal would work properly on a non CRT monitor... Me too. That's why I'm waiting for them to make devices capable of actually doing it.
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#171944 - 24/07/2003 15:33
Re: I need a new TV; Recommendations?
[Re: ricin]
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veteran
Registered: 08/05/2000
Posts: 1429
Loc: San Francisco, CA
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...You can get the Panasonic TH-42PWD6UY for about 2900 delivered! It's a 4000:1 contrast non-HD plasma, although you'd be hard pressed to tell it didn't have 1080i native resolution...
- Jon
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#171945 - 26/07/2003 12:44
Re: I need a new TV; Recommendations?
[Re: jbauer]
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veteran
Registered: 19/06/2000
Posts: 1495
Loc: US: CA
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Nice TV, but I want to avoid plasma TVs right now, I should've said that in my first post. Mainly because I can get a larger TV for the same amount of money, or less and the picture will be just as good, if not better. Plus, I don't need it to be thin, or anything like that; especially since I can't put holes in the wall to mount it, and it just wouldn't be kewl to have a plasma and not mount it on the wall. 
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#171946 - 26/07/2003 13:47
Re: I need a new TV; Recommendations?
[Re: ricin]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31602
Loc: Seattle, WA
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Gosh, Ricin, I just realized I forgot to link you to http://www.hometheaterspot.com in regards to your question. The forums there have really good discussions about rear-projection televisions.
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#171947 - 26/07/2003 14:21
Re: I need a new TV; Recommendations?
[Re: ricin]
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addict
Registered: 24/07/2003
Posts: 500
Loc: Colorado, N.A.
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Plasma is not quite ready for prime time. Nevermind the aforementioned inability to render 720p or 1080i natively, at altitude here in Colorado, USA, they also make a very attractive buzzing sound.
I am curious though. Didn't you say you live in an apartment? Why the need for a big screen? Are you one of those guys who sits in the front row at Matrix/LOTR looking straight up?
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-- DLF
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#171948 - 26/07/2003 20:27
Re: I need a new TV; Recommendations?
[Re: DLF]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 08/06/1999
Posts: 7868
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at altitude here in Colorado, USA, they also make a very attractive buzzing sound. They have fixed this now, or at least some of the manufacturers have. Sony tested all their new ones out on a ski vacation up at Vail this past winter.
And hey, another Colorado empeg owner. You see the Colorado meet thread in general?
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#171949 - 27/07/2003 02:06
Re: I need a new TV; Recommendations?
[Re: DLF]
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veteran
Registered: 19/06/2000
Posts: 1495
Loc: US: CA
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Plasma is not quite ready for prime time.
I most definitely agree.
I am curious though. Didn't you say you live in an apartment? Why the need for a big screen?
Yep, I live in an apartment. The reason for wanting a big TV is I have the room, I like to watch movies, and I have a few console systems. Plus, I just want one.
Are you one of those guys who sits in the front row at Matrix/LOTR looking straight up?
Not in the least; that's a good way to get a headache.  I think around 50" for a TV is reasonable.
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Donato MkII/080000565 MkIIa/010101253 ricin.us
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#171950 - 27/07/2003 02:08
Re: I need a new TV; Recommendations?
[Re: tfabris]
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veteran
Registered: 19/06/2000
Posts: 1495
Loc: US: CA
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Thanks for reminding me about that site. I went there a few months ago and completely forgot about it. I'll check it out again.
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Donato MkII/080000565 MkIIa/010101253 ricin.us
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#171951 - 27/07/2003 09:37
Re: I need a new TV; Recommendations?
[Re: drakino]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31602
Loc: Seattle, WA
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Sony tested all their new ones out on a ski vacation up at Vail this past winter. Yeah, it's tough to be a tester for Sony, isn't it?
Hey, Rob, I've heard that the Rio portable units will fail in humid tropical environments!
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#171952 - 27/07/2003 10:41
Re: I need a new TV; Recommendations?
[Re: drakino]
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addict
Registered: 24/07/2003
Posts: 500
Loc: Colorado, N.A.
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True about Sony. And the resulting 50" model costs a mere $13,000 here!
Yes, I saw the Colorado meet and I may try to make it, but I should come clean with you right now: I don't own an empeg/Rio Car unit (yet). I actually joined the forum to chime in on the discussion about Rio's new portable models, the development of which the Cambridge guys have been involved with. Lots of serious A/V geeks on this board!
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-- DLF
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#171953 - 28/07/2003 05:56
Re: I need a new TV; Recommendations?
[Re: ricin]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 15/08/2000
Posts: 4859
Loc: New Jersey, USA
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Greetings!
Okay. Let's take this in the opposite direction...
I, too, am looking to get a new TV. Probably in the next two months, so I have time to wait a bit.
My application is for a small bedroom, maybe 11' from the viewer to the wall. (Sorry about the english / imperial measurements. This isn't a Mars lander... ) I am looking to get a reasonable size (between 25-35") flat panel TV. I am open on LCD vs plasma, knowing the technologies between the two, but needing to hear about advantages / disadvantages (like that buzzing mentioned above for plasma!!!).
Widescreen (16:9 ratio) is preferred, but most of my viewing will be regular, boring, broadcast / cable TV, without any external speakers or home theater setup. I will use an occasional DVD, but nothing spectacular. I will be hanging it on the wall, to get a bit more depth and because there is nothing the set can be resting on at that location.
Could someone (everyone!) point me to a good FAQ for just the basic viewer?
Edit: My current favorite is the Sony KLV-30XBR900, but it seems a bit expensive (Crutchfield)...
Edited by pgrzelak (28/07/2003 06:03)
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Paul Grzelak
200GB with 48MB RAM, Illuminated Buttons and Digital Outputs
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#171954 - 28/07/2003 06:27
Re: I need a new TV; Recommendations?
[Re: tfabris]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 13/07/2000
Posts: 4180
Loc: Cambridge, England
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Hey, Rob, I've heard that the Rio portable units will fail in humid tropical environments! Such as Empeg Towers, on days when the outside temperature reaches 30C and the aircon conks out with heat exhaustion...
Peter
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#171955 - 28/07/2003 06:44
Re: I need a new TV; Recommendations?
[Re: peter]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 15/08/2000
Posts: 4859
Loc: New Jersey, USA
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Um, yeah, kinda like that...
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Paul Grzelak
200GB with 48MB RAM, Illuminated Buttons and Digital Outputs
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#171956 - 28/07/2003 06:51
Re: I need a new TV; Recommendations?
[Re: pgrzelak]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 13/07/2000
Posts: 4180
Loc: Cambridge, England
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My application is for a small bedroom, maybe 11' from the viewer to the wall [...] a reasonable size (between 25-35") flat panel TV Heh, that's about the viewer-to-screen distance in the living room in my house, for which I recently got a 17" LCD television. It's great for DVDs, and, although I haven't tried it with a games console, it should be fine as its native resolution is 1280x768. So please forgive me, ricin, if I'm slightly amused by the notion of getting a 50" television for an apartment because you're waiting to do it properly when you get a house...
The previous owner of my house had a 42" plasma television in the same location, which frankly always seemed a bit much, sort of like a bedsit with a Michelangelo ceiling.
Peter
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#171957 - 28/07/2003 07:47
Re: I need a new TV; Recommendations?
[Re: peter]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
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when the outside temperature reaches 30C and the aircon conks out with heat exhaustion Oh, to live in merrye olde England!
It's usually about that hot outside when I get up in the morning, before the sun has had time to bake into the asphalt and concrete. It sounds like you need to import a quality American A/C.
But at least the humidity here is greater, too. (Well, at least today: my dewpoint is 74F/23C, yours 50F/10C.)
Edited by wfaulk (28/07/2003 07:51)
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Bitt Faulk
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#171958 - 28/07/2003 07:59
Re: I need a new TV; Recommendations?
[Re: wfaulk]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 13/07/2000
Posts: 4180
Loc: Cambridge, England
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It sounds like you need to import a quality American A/C. To be fair, it's not really the fault of the air conditioning units themselves, it's just that our landlords', er, concerns about disrupting the sleek exterior lines of their building with condensers mean that we are forced to put the condensers in the loft space and then vent the loft to the outside with fans. By the time the air conditioners give up, it's 45-50C in the loftspace, as we just can't vent the heat outside quickly enough.
Peter
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#171959 - 28/07/2003 08:34
Re: I need a new TV; Recommendations?
[Re: tfabris]
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addict
Registered: 23/09/2000
Posts: 498
Loc: Virginia, USA
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In reply to:
The CRT based rear projectors, on the other hand, will actually change the raster scan rate of the CRTs to exactly match the number of lines of the incoming image in the case of a 1080i input. So for high def, you'll simply get a more accurate, less processed picture, with more detail, on a CRT-based projector.
There is a big caveat to this: no CRT's short of 9" front projector behemoths can actually resolve 1080 lines of resolution. So while the CRT may draw 1080 lines, those lines overlap and effectively reduce the resolution. I don't know exactly what today's RPTV's can do but 600-800 lines is a typical ballpark resolution for a 7" CRT.
Toshiba has a LCOS (LCD variant) RPTV that is 1920x1080 but it costs something like $8k.
-Dylan
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#171960 - 28/07/2003 10:17
Re: I need a new TV; Recommendations?
[Re: Dylan]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31602
Loc: Seattle, WA
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Ouch, Dylan, you've got me there.
So the question is, what's better? Analog resolution reduction where the finest details are slightly blurry because the the rasters are fat, or digital resolution reduction where they have to use a bilinear blurring filter to fatten the pixels?
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#171961 - 29/07/2003 15:47
Re: I need a new TV; Recommendations?
[Re: jbauer]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 31/08/1999
Posts: 1649
Loc: San Carlos, CA
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You can get the Panasonic TH-42PWD6UY for about 2900 delivered!
Hey Jon, where did you see that deal and is it from a reputable dealer? I am finding closer to $3200 + $100 shipping.
Thanks,
-Mike
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