I've been wondering about the long term resale value of an empeg. This is for all of you who have spares that you might want to sell down the road.

It looks like demand is going down, but I can't seem to figure out why. There's still absolutaly NOTHING better out there AND nothing even close in price. And if you have a bit of computer skill (and ID3 tagging patience), than you can accept no substitute for the empeg.

But what do you all think about the 1, 2, or 3 year outlook on empegs? Certainly something better will come out in a 3 year time frame. So, when faced with empeg competition down the line, would you still buy empeg:
because you love it
because you can hack it
because you can upgrade it
because it's so clean and ergonomic to use
because people still program for it
because it's established
etc

Or would you be more interested in some potentially forthcoming single-DIN, full color slide-out-and-up 5" touchscreen, solid-state memory MP3 car player with built in amps and a battery so you could listen to it on the go?

I, clinging to my old technology as one of the last 1.03 users, will stick with empeg even if it gets outdated because it's simply so well done. Your thoughts?

I'll use it until something "better" at a reasonable (sub 1k) pricepoint comes out. Music wise, it's pretty much there. The real killers for me would be a better daytime readable screen and full GPS navigation.

The other issue that is quickly becoming apperent is that in a few years, solid state will be able to hold my entire music collection. Once that's possible and cheap, the benefit of having two hard drives will be minimal. Once my phone/pda/camera/discman can hold 20GB of music and stream it to my car stereo when I get in my car, there won't be any reason for an empeg. Ten Years from now this won't be that much of a stretch.

Matthew

When something comes out that's easier and better, I'll do it. The drawbacks to the current empeg are (for me) the lack of a color screen and the screen size.

Having a fold out screen or even a full facia screen w/ only a remote control would be better in the future - color of course. I don't care too much about a CD/DVD reader, but it would be nice. Possibly USB 2.0 connections would alleviate this problem and allow for many other potential external interfaces.

The empeg - in my opinion - suffers from being too far ahead of it's time. The competition is starting to catch up but the products coming out now have the advantages of using technology 2 (give or take) years more advanced and developed.

I'm planning on being done w/ my empeg when I get rid of my current car - 2+ years. At that point I would think that something else will have come out that is better for a reasonable price. I wish that an empeg Mark 3 was coming down the pipeline - but it's not.

I wish that an empeg Mark 3 was coming down the pipeline - but it's not.

It was. I don't know what the sale of Rio means to it in particular, but I'd be surprised if it was gone.

At that point I would think that something else will have come out that is better for a reasonable price.

I'd bet you're wrong, with the possible exception of the Camelot.

I think that, long after I've purchased a new vehicle with a really rad factory mp3 jukebox preinstalled, my own Empegs will still be happily humming away in their dock's on the home stereos and in my office.

Cheers

Certainly something better will come out in a 3 year time frame.

I don't think that this is necessarily true. I think that any follow-up competition to the Empeg may have new, extra cool features, but what we have is a feature set that will likely never be duplicated and improved upon. Though there are some features I can take or leave (which I think is true of all of us because of the sheer number of abilities this device hase), the ones I use all the time and would really regret giving up are:

-Pull out + RCA jacks so it is my ONLY music listening device.
-Nested (as well as flexible) playlists.
-High quality hardware.
-High quality software.
-Volume adjust (with Hijack)
-Static volume on startup (with Hijack)
-Bookmarking

The truth is that not all of these items are going to interest the general public, but I wouldn't want to give them up for anything else. While I'd like a more readable display, I'd have a hard time giving up the feature set I'm used to in order to get it. As for a color display and all of the other things coming down the line, I could honestly care less about most of them, though I’m sure they’ll be necessary to get the general public on board.

I'm with you, FerretBoy.

We can sit and list features that the empeg doesn't have, and that future non-empeg products might have (big color screen, solid state storage, etc.). But I highly doubt any upcoming mass-market products will be quite as flexible as the empeg in terms of the software.

I'm willing to be proven wrong. In fact, I'd love that. If something comes out that's got software features equally as flexible as the empeg, and also all the hardware features we dream of, then everybody benefits.

Something tells me that if such a product appears, a certain group of people from Cambridge will still be the ones writing the software.

My personal guess is that we will never again see a solution that's as easy to get music on as the empeg. I could be wrong about that, though. A neat solution would be a head unit that's a docking station for a portable unit and uses the portable as its storage device. It could also recharge the portable while it's docked and not require the portable in order to play the radio or, potentially, a CD.

But that would require someone developing both simultaneously, and I don't see that happening, unless someone is industrious enough to make it an aftermarket accessory for an already existing portable.

But here I go into wishlists again.

I doubt we'll see another solution that is as hackable as the Empeg. Features, smeatchures. We can write all the features we want as a community if the device is open.enough. Look at Hijack, gpsapp, emphatic, palantir. These are all add-ons that provide brand new (valuable) functionality for the Empeg that we would not have had if the unit was closed. THAT is the most valuable thing about the Empeg (to me). I probably would not have bought one if it wasn't so open, and continued with my roll-your-own mp3 player.

I think the only thing that would be better is if a community of people with the right skills would band together to create a new, open product around existing componants. If the demand is high enough, it's possible - just look at what this community has done so far, hardware-wise. Mark's docks, Robricc's sleds, Patricks tuners, spdif out, drive upgrade instructions, new faces, lenses, buttons, led hacks, etc. I'm sure that as a community we could find some kind of single board computer to base a new product around. Everyone would have to build their own, and it would be more expensive than the Empeg, but if it was not expected to succeed commercially it would be possible.

A neat solution would be a head unit that's a docking station for a portable unit and uses the portable as its storage device.

Dension showed this very thing at CES...

Thanks for the insight into this. (I hate when I get too busy to reply to my own threads)

So, clearly people will still want empegs in the future. But, will there still be a demand to buy them? Or will everyone use them simply as home systems and buy the latest cool thing for their cars? Or, on the other hand, some people might want to avoid paying high prices for the latest gadgets and go get an old empeg.

So, despite the empeg's rarity, will the empeg price ultimately drop? All computers loose value as newer stuff comes out and the same might happen to the empeg. I was hoping that it's limited supply would keep demand high even with newer better things on the market. If your empeg dies but you have the sled still installed, wouldn't you be a perfect candidate to buy a used empeg instead of tearing out the sled and getting something else?

And can I write a post with ANY more questions? I guess only time will tell the long term price of the empeg. I'm as anxious as anyone to know how valuable my backup will be.

Eventually, the price will drop. Once it isn't the best thing you can put in your car, it's not going to command the prices it does today. One thing that is interesting is that with a few execeptions, the empeg doesn't seem to appeal to the but-does-it-run-linux crowd. Once the price drops will it be picked up by more of the generation that grew up reading slashdot drooling over the latest linux device or will they still be able to build one for 50-bucks-and-an-old-pentium?

I forsee the market for empegs shrinking, but the few addicts left are going to be hard core. They'll be dedicated to keeping their empegs going, but the likelyhood that there will be more of them than empegs available is slim.

Matthew

The new iPod makes an ideal portable to stuff into an in-car deck. The new Rio Karma would too from its functionality, but I believe its form-factor may limit its potential (sleekness if you will)

I was thinking the exact same thing when I saw the first iPod and then again a few weeks ago: Standard looking in-dash stereo unit with fold-down face. Behind the face is a slot-load CD and a rectangular opening to slip in your portable player. The portable does all the playback work and transmits analog audio to the head unit (or digital, but I'm trying to work with existing products in this design). It would also send all the data needed for the current track and next tracks (whatever info is needed to run the info modes of the display). The portable's docking connector would need to support two-way communication of course because the controls on the head-unit would instruct it to play/pause next/prev track, navigate lists, etc.. Of course the head-unit would power the portable as well as charge it while it's being used.

That said, there could be a nice-looking home dock for it as well with integrated display as well as TV-output.

This would be my ideal empeg replacement. Not the camelot unit shown at CES. Drawback right now is that none of the portables can have more than 40GB of storage. Have to sacrifice somewhere I suppose. Then you can have your music with you and not have to carry around a stylish pelican case to house it in. Nor a large battery strapped to your back if you want to use the player outside the car.

I believe the Rio brand is in the hands of a company that has a better chance of pulling off such a product than many others.

In the meantime, I hope someone is already thinking about making an IR receiver unit that plugs into the Karma and allows it to be used with a universal (or Kenwood ) remote. This would be great for the home as well as for anyone wanting to use one in their cars with a current head-unit supporting Aux-In.

Bruno

Rio Karma? What's that?

- Trevor

Rio Karma? What's that?

Also known as Pearl. Read this thread for more details.

Ahh okay. Thanks.

I've actually read that thread but that entire section must have not sunk in or something.

- Trevor

I was one of the lucky ones who got in after the steep price cuts. Got my 60 GB drive for $500. For that reason, if something better comes along, I'd certainly consider using it, but would probably hang on to my Empeg for old times sake. It's a neat gizmo, and someday I'm sure it'll have a retro cool thing happening for it.

Yes! You're thinking along the exact same lines I was! I think hands-down, the Apple iPod is the slickest, best-constructed, and most useful portable MP3 player out there. Problem is, nobody seems to have come to their senses yet and built a car stereo with a slot to insert an iPod and "dock" it for use in the car. Instead, they keep trying to sell those awful add-ons that broadcast over unused FM frequencies (at relatively poor fidelity). I want the iPod to get power from the car when it's plugged in, and don't want it sitting on a seat or on the floor broadcasting to my existing stereo. That's a hack.... not a solution.

I don't know if you noticed yet, but Apple worked some kind of deal with Volkswagon just last week. Next year's VW Beetle is supposed to come with a complimentary Apple iPod and I think they may even be doing something so the car lets yuo dock the iPod in the dash. If so, that' great - but I want a solution that works for any car.

Nah. The iPod Beetle combo is just an iPod, a special holder, cigarette adapter and a cassette adapter. Click on Learn More on the Apple page and it'll tell you exactly what you get.

A cigarette and a cassette adapter ? And all the wiring is hanging loose ?

Damn, that's a sad upgrade !

Yeah, that's pretty bad. You'd think with VW they would have come up with a slicker interface than a tape adapter. At least a CD changer converter to RCA to 1/8th inch jack coming out from behind the dash would have been better.

I think they may even be doing something so the car lets yuo dock the iPod in the dash.

Hopefully in place of the flower vase.

It did strike me when I saw the Karma at the meet that the ideal solution for me would be to put the Karma docking station on top of the dash and wire it in to the HU, so that it was both charging and playing my music at the same time.

I'm not sure whether that docking station would be able to cope with the movement and vibration of an in-car environment, having been designed for home use. Of course, you would need to be able to buy more than one docking station.

I'm doing less and less driving, so a more flexible solution would be ideal. That would release my Empeg for someone who really wants to do things with the software, which will never be me. My only concern would be whether I could still come to Amersfoort, if I sold my passport!

Just FYI, Apple does less a low level FM Modulator which connect to the docking port of the iPod to allow wireless connection to a stereo. I am sure the quality is about as good as other FM modulatiors. *i.e. crappy*

If the iPod could be directly controlled from an empeg like in dash interface/plugin I just might give it a shot. I tried using the iPod in my friends car on the way to cali and found myself wishing my empeg was in the dash.

Messing with the iPod on the road is just plain dangerous, not to mention that he didn't have all his music on it (I found this out when most of the stuff I wanted to listen to wasn't there....)

I've thought about selling BOTH my remaining empegs from time to time as I feel demand softening, but there just isn't a comparable product out there. If they'd integrated high speed I/O into the empeg I'd probably keep it until it broke, or they came out with the Mk3 (assuming it has a palm tungsten type screen)