Any one looked in to adding support for the Dension Remote Display to the empeg for basic UI functions?

Some tech info i found..

TECHNICAL DATA
Size: 115x41x30mm
Display: 128x56 blue graphic LCD, white LED backlight
Power supply: 12 V DC
Active current: < 100 mA
Standby current: < 20 mA
Reset condition: U < 8 V
Communication: 19.2 kbit/s serial
Operating temperature: 0 - +50 C
Storage temperature: -20 - +70 C

As it is only serial i would think it might be possible if we could find out the protocol.

C.

Eeeenteristing.. Where can more info (pics, data sheets, etc) be found on this?
This would be something I'd be really interested in.. If none other than to "make it work".

Me.

pics of the display face

[image] http://www.densionusa.com/images/satdisp-A1[1].jpg [/image]
[image] http://www.densionusa.com/images/satdisp-A2[1].jpg [/image]
[image] http://www.densionusa.com/images/satdisp-B1[1].jpg [/image]
[image] http://www.densionusa.com/images/satdisp-B2[1].jpg [/image]

The only difference between faces is color and buttons.

They are $89.99

Display users manual.

http://www.densionusa.com/files/Satellite_Display_Users_Manual_v1_03.pdf

According to one of the websites i looked at the protocol is published, but i can't find it anywhere.

C.

Eh. 128x56 resolution doesn't do much for me. If it were color or something maybe...

Got the protocol spec sheet <| :-)

See attached

Bump

I'm not so sure what "bump" means, but that spec sheet is pretty interesting. I'm honestly amazed that it was released. And, by looking at the specs for the LCD output, it looks do-able. Well, it does seem like a lot of data to spit out over the serial line though...

It would be a great solution for people who need to mount the empeg in the glove box.

I'm not so sure what "bump" means

"Bump" means that he's adding a zero-content post to the thread for the sole purpose of making it float back up to the top of the thread list, in hopes of the thread gaining attention again. Usually, when someone does this, their reason for bumping the thread is implied by context and little or no explanation is needed.

I've seen this done as common practice on other BBS's which sort by date, and as long as it's not over-done, and it's done for a good cause, I don't consider it an abuse.

Ah, I see what ya mean. That's done in For Sale a lot, but generally with posts like, "Um, so nobody wants to buy this used 2 gig MKI that I have?!"

But really, this Dension display seems cool. But there's no way to get the display data out the serial port, right? And it seems like a LOT of data to spit out the serial port. Oh, and can the Dension handle 3 shades of grey?

Haha, I was reading some old thread from 2000 about Tony and Mark hanging out with Hugo and getting a preview of the MKII player. It was mentioned that the empeg could do 256 levels of dimming, but only when Hugo telnetted into the device and set the control manually. With a screen that can do that many levels of dimming, couldn't more shades of grey be available? I mean, I can't imagine needing them at all because the 3 shades really do the trick, but I can't imagine how cool it would be to have like 15 shades.

From reading the specifications for the protocol it looks like the display is semi intelligent and is made specifically for their MP3 player. It's not a proper bitmap display, there are limitations on what you can display. You tell it pretty much what text and preset icons to display.

You could reprogram the display to allow full control but it would involve developing your own firmware for it.

If this was interfaced with the empeg then it wouldn't mirror what is shown on the real empeg display. But if you're okay with it just displaying the basic information then I don't see any problem with implementing this.

We're pretty much stuck with the 3 shades we've currently got. It's a limitation of the VFD used. I think somebody tried a few of the other shades and found there was one more that worked okay.

- Trevor

I was reading some old thread from 2000 about Tony and Mark hanging out with Hugo and getting a preview of the MKII player.

That was Mike Comb, not Mark.

With a screen that can do that many levels of dimming, couldn't more shades of grey be available?

The shades of gray are done by time dithering. And yes, more shades of gray are available, they are just too flickery for static text and image screens. The two shades chosen for the static graphics are the only two that aren't too flickery.

You will notice that some of the visuals use time dithering to produce more shades of gray than are available for static graphics. These work because the images are already moving on the screen and the flicker isn't as noticeable in those cases.

That stuff is still vapor am I right?

In reply to:

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From reading the specifications for the protocol it looks like the display is semi intelligent and is made specifically for their MP3 player. It's not a proper bitmap display, there are limitations on what you can display. You tell it pretty much what text and preset icons to display.

You could reprogram the display to allow full control but it would involve developing your own firmware for it.

If this was interfaced with the empeg then it wouldn't mirror what is shown on the real empeg display. But if you're okay with it just displaying the basic information then I don't see any problem with implementing this.

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(Somehow I never saw this messages has having any 'new' messages in it until now. Apologies. For anyone who cares. )

When I first heard of the display, I thought it was a simple serial device. All I would use it for, personally, would be to mount it in the back so ther back-seat driver could know what he's listening to. (I didn't know it even had a control on it.)

It wouldn't be too hard sending out data via the serial port, the only downside is that nothing else could use the serial port when it's in use. (Obviously...) Now, translating dot-specific data to serial (I haven't read the sheets yet, just SWAG'n at the moment.) would be rather difficult (read: take much CPU time, depending on type of visual. In theory, static images shouldn't be that hard, allowing a user to choose a font and what data to display on the screen, then let the 'visual' program 'draw' the screen at each song change.
The hard parts, for me, would be knowing when the song changed, and grabbing the info from the database on the current playing song. (And maybe next, etc.)
I like the display's looks, tho. With the knob and curves, it almost looks like a smaller Empeg, and it fits in with the dash setup of my Mini Cooper wonderfully. Heh.

In reply to:

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We're pretty much stuck with the 3 shades we've currently got. It's a limitation of the VFD used. I think somebody tried a few of the other shades and found there was one more that worked okay.

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Pretty much, yeah. Even on the current-day pinball games (well, save for WMS's "Pinball 2000", but that's a different story.) they used displays similar to the empeg, but larger 'dots' - On, Off, and two shades of gray. Images were stored all on an EEPROM as (basically) two two-bit images, then combined and put on the 'screen'. I had friends who modified the hardware to make the 'grays' stand out from each other better because the timing difference between the two made it hard to tell them apart.

Mike.

You can't do visuals on the display. It only lets you display text. There isn't any way of directly addressing the individual pixels on the display. The only graphics displayable is whatever is built into the firmware.

The baud rate of the display is quite low so even if you did rewrite the firmware to allow you to use it as a graphical display the refresh rate would be very low.

Finding out what is playing is easy enough if you've got Hijack installed. If you're fine with just a slave display that lets you go back and forward between songs and possibly a few other functions then it would be perfect.

- Trevor

In reply to:

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You can't do visuals on the display. It only lets you display text. There isn't any way of directly addressing the individual pixels on the display. The only graphics displayable is whatever is built into the firmware.

The baud rate of the display is quite low so even if you did rewrite the firmware to allow you to use it as a graphical display the refresh rate would be very low.

Finding out what is playing is easy enough if you've got Hijack installed. If you're fine with just a slave display that lets you go back and forward between songs and possibly a few other functions then it would be perfect.

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Aah, okay. I just started reading the manual (hey, it's a slow day at work..)

I'd like to do this, for several reasons.. (Mainly just to see if I can. My C is limited, but I'm learning, slowly.)

The only thing that scares me is this line from the manual:

In reply to:

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The format of the serial line is RS232, 19200 baud 8N2 (8 bit, no parity, 2 stop bit). Contrary to the standard RS232 we apply a 5V signal level, in inactive (logical 0) state the line level is 5V, in active (logical 1) state 0V.

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like the manual says, isn';t this 'reversed'? (i.e. ON should be HIGH, OFF should be LOW.)

I'm not a hardware guy (databases, my speciality.), so does this make the whole thing a moot point?

Me.

..And the manual is rather unclear on several things, and incorrect on others. (The serial packet example is missing the last byte from the first message, and is unclear whether the last packet should still have a serial number in the birst 6 bits as well as a 1 in the 7th, or ONlY have a 1 in the 7th.. I need to get one of these and just hook it up to my PC first, get the serial connectio down.)

All in all, a very doable project, and one I wouldn't mind attacking.

Me.

Nah. It's fine. You'll need something like a MAX-232 anyway to convert from RS232 voltage levels to TTL levels.

One minor point is that the display uses 2 stop bits for some reason. Most stuff uses 1 stop bit and the empeg defaults to this so you'll need to set the UART.

- Trevor

Ew, then no.
I know nothing about hardware, and would prefer a 'remote' display, even if it is something as simple as this, to be plug-n-play. (RS232, power.)

I really like the communication style, tho, it's a puzzle, and makes me want to see if I can get it down to a logical state for a program... (And I think the manual may be wrong on the 2 stop bits - it's a very poor document, reading it now.)

I'm impressed that most of everything is handled in the display's flash programme, allowing hi-end programming and nice updates as the display's flash evolves. (Including turning on and off the diaply remotely, and fast drawing of VU meters by telling the display the values for the meters, and letting the display handle the drawing of graphics.) What I don't like is the fact that the maual's written poorly and mixes internal DMP3 commands with serial line communications. (Did I mention the manual's written poorly?)

Me.

It's not hard to wire up a MAX232 or equiv. Why do you think the manual is wrong about needing 2 stop bits?

Doing it the way they've done is certainly very efficient in terms of bandwidth as you only just transfer the minimum information necessary for it to generate a display.

- Trevor

Has anyone made any progress (or attempted a connection yet) with this thing? This is something I'd be interested in for a possible future applicaiton.

Bruno

I can't find anywhere that sells it in the UK so I haven't done anything. Once I get one it shouldn't be that hard though... (famous last words)

- Trevor

Okay. I've got no clue where to buy one of these things in the UK.
Anybody want to give me any hints? I'd rather not import it from the US or elsewhere because I'll get a huge import tax slapped on top.

- Trevor

Anyone else you buy it from in the UK will have paid the same import duties and be adding their cut on top, so it probably wouldn't cost you any more to import it yourself.

Okay. I'll admit it. I'm lazy and just want to get it in the UK because it's easier

- Trevor

The 'Dealers' section of www.in-carmp3.com seems to list a few retailers in the UK.

Ah cool. Thanks.
Who's interested in actually using one? If so then I'll get one and hook it up. I don't actually need it but it's just something to do...

- Trevor

I might be interested if it allows me to be able slap the factory in dash cd changer back in my car.... that'd be nice

If you're happy with only having the limited interface the Dension display gives you then that's fine. You'd have to trunk mount your empeg as I've got no idea how to control other equipment with the display.

- Trevor

I'm interested in one, but not for remoting my Empeg display
- its intended for other non-music projects.

One thing to note that as the new Dension model is coming out and doesn't apparently support/require a remote display, so it may be that this remoite display product is withdrawn from sale eventually, so finding out if its any good could be useful.

BTW: From reading the technical manual I have no doublt this could be glued into a Empeg as a remote display with the front panel buttons being used in some limited way.

Well I'd probably have to run the cd player in the aux of the empeg... would I be able to select sources from the dension?