Well, then how routes work (inside the software) would have to change from an array of names to an array of structs (or a linked link thereof, but... memory fragmentation sucks, if you're not careful)

Yeah...a dynamically allocated and sized array of structs. Could be a nightmare...

BTW, the only difference that I saw in that binary was the strength meter bars lost their fill - as if no satellite was providing fix data - but the fix appeared fine....The cursor still didn't change though

he only difference that I saw in that binary was the strength meter bars lost their fill - as if no satellite was providing fix data - but the fix appeared fine....The cursor still didn't change though

I bet Jan has better insight, so I'm not going to read the code now. I sent a patch to Jan earlier which reads settings from config.ini, and I'm about to send another which acknowledges menu changes with a visible indication.

Fair enough... Thanks for trying

Actually, can you hook the Oncore to a PC? gpsapp_host outputs the NMEA; I can send you that (the x86 binary with the minor hack) if you need it.

I could - and will if I exhaust other options first, but currently my Oncore is sealed in an empeg-serial-powered enclosure and buried in my dashboard. As I spent most of Friday putting it there, I have absolutely no desire to take it out again so soon

Actually, I have an idea, I'm going to look at something.

Actually, if the docs are to be believed, none of the interesting sentences are turned on by default. I provided another URL in the PM you got. Try it, maybe this time...

2 things about the sat screen:

-The SVee6 in NMEA mode as factory doesn't send sat info. Sending a TSIP packet to it can turn on additional sentences. But... how do we decide something is a SVee6/SVee8Plus so we can send the TSIP?
-The Magellan I have seems to output WAAS as pseudo-satellites numbered e.g. "122". Probably the right answer is to drop satellites>99?

Right now the cursor 'should' turn into a diamond shape when the fix is lost, but that doesn't seem to be working too well

I don't know how global of a problem this is, but the Magellan Gold stops sending anything other than PMGNST and GPGSV when it loses its fix, so basically the way you have to tell you lost seems to be "notice you're not seeing updates"

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The SVee6 in NMEA mode as factory doesn't send sat info. Sending a TSIP packet to it can turn on additional sentences. But... how do we decide something is a SVee6/SVee8Plus so we can send the TSIP?

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two things -

1. can you send the SVee6 a TSIP "sentence" to turn on extra NMEA sentences, while its in NMEA mode or does it need to be in TSIP mode first?
also, does anyone have a link to the TSIP manual - I don't seem to have this.

2. Why not not have a configuration setting [GPS menu option], that you tell the GPS what kind of GPS you have and it sends the GPS the "special" sentence to enable the extra sentences.
I presume you only have to do this once and the GPS remembers it from then on?
Or does it need to be sent each boot up?

doesn't a receiver ignore messages it considers invalid, and each manufacturer uses their own prefix (PRGRM for garmin, etc), so there shouldn't be any conflicts.

I think that for the SV6 (and possibly SV8) it might be best to just use TSIP all the time. For Garmin's a lot of the interesting stuff is only available in NMEA, I haven't tried to enable WAAS on garmin, but it normally shows the waas satellites as 33-36. I'm sure that we can just discard any satellite id above 32.

Currently the type of gps protocol is specified as an argument on the commandline, i.e. gpsapp nmea, or gpsapp tsip. This is set in the startup script M50gpsapp.

Many of these setting are not persistent, or might get lost when the backup battery is not connected or loses it's change, so it is safer to just reinitialize to a known state on startup.

can you send the SVee6 a TSIP "sentence" to turn on extra NMEA sentences

The docs imply you can.

http://www.dementia.org/~shadow/sv8plus_manual.pdf describes the protocol. I have actual SVee6 docs somewhere but the only difference is the hardware description; The SVee8 has 2 more channels and another serial port.

Why not not have a configuration setting [GPS menu option],
Well, it does mean that when you change GPSs if you forget you're screwed, I'd guess.

Or does it need to be sent each boot up?
Depends on the GPS. That I wasn't clear on, for the SVee6, like, does it forget when I shut off my car? I'd guess no, that it's more or less the same as the NMEA/TSIP/TAIP selection. An Earthmate or a Tripmate *will* forget. The Magellan Gold I have doesn't have a way I've found yet to configure it other than from the menu on the screen of the unit. And so on.

doesn't a receiver ignore messages it considers invalid, and each manufacturer uses their own prefix (PRGRM for garmin, etc), so there shouldn't be any conflicts.

It's a good theory. It's even held true for all like 5 receivers I've tried with so far, and should be true for all of them; That doesn't mean some cheap vendor didn't get it wrong, but all the reputable vendors should work right.

I think that for the SV6 (and possibly SV8) it might be best to just use TSIP all the time.

Probably, but I don't feel like dealing with a Windows machine to switch this one back.

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(number6's question)
can you send the SVee6 a TSIP "sentence" to turn on extra NMEA sentences

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The docs imply you can.

This document describes the protocol. I have actual SVee6 docs somewhere but the only difference is the hardware description; The SVee8 has 2 more channels and another serial port.

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Yes, you are right, the above doc, it mentions this on Page 3-5 - quoted below.

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(number6's question)
Why not not have a configuration setting [GPS menu option],

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Well, it does mean that when you change GPSs if you forget you're screwed, I'd guess.

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Yes, but changing the option from either config.ini (done via Emplode (and maybe jemplode?)) or from the front panel via special command are pretty simple for most folks.
Making it a command line option or something makes it harder to change.
I realise most folks are going to change their in-car GPS once or twice - about as often as they change cars to be honest, but for in-home use/testing it may well be more frequent than that.
So making it easy to send this string to your GPS as required from the GPS app makes it:

(a) easy to maintain - the code is one place for all supported GPS receivers - and this is in the program than makes use of the features.

(b) Trivial to reset in the case of a new GPS unit being plugged in.

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(number6's question)
Or does it need to be sent each boot up?

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Depends on the GPS. That I wasn't clear on, for the SVee6, like, does it forget when I shut off my car? I'd guess no, that it's more or less the same as the NMEA/TSIP/TAIP selection. An Earthmate or a Tripmate *will* forget. The Magellan Gold I have doesn't have a way I've found yet to configure it other than from the menu on the screen of the unit. And so on.

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The SVee8 [and I assume the Svee6] appears to be able to remember the settings in permanent memory, or possibly in battery backed ram (BB Ram?)
Heres the snippet from Page 3-5 of the Svee8plus manual.

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The receiver is shipped with the NMEA protocol by part number from the factory. The NMEA setting can be changed using TSIPCHAT and command 0xBC. TSIP command 0x7A changes the NMEA output sentences and output rates.

The new settings are saved to BBRAM or they can be saved to non-volatile memory using TSIP command 0x8E-26.

* Note – Although the SVeeEight Plus GPS receiver supports seven NMEA sentences that contain GPS information, the factory default setting for the receiver only outputs the GGA and VTG data strings. To change the output interval or sentence output, use TSIP Command Packet 7A.

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The right answer is probably:
1) configure protocol (NMEA/TSIP/whatever) in config.ini. I sent Jan that patch a few hours ago and he integrated it.
2) configure things which can be turned on safely inline with proprietary sentences regardless. Again, we dealt with the Oncore last night and Jan has the patch.
3) for receivers which can be "set once" have a menu item to "initialize foo receiver". This would cover the SVee6/SVee8. I guess I'll probably do this for 0.12, unless 0.11 comes later than I expect.
4) for receivers which need to be set each time and speak NMEA (e.g. not the Earthmate, and not the Tripmate, since we know how to deal with that) deal as it comes up. We don't know of any of these yet anyway.

The oncore can also be initialised once similar to the Sv6/8.

I'm beginning to think that config.ini should not be used for application data - we have seen issues with the player/hijack if config.ini grows beyond a certain size (the famed 'favorite visual' bug caused this to happen).

Whilst hijack options are in config.ini, the number of those options is fairly static...I'm not sure if ir_translate has ever been known to cause file size issues or not, but that is probably the most likely candidate for significant increase of filesize. But I forsee the day that an application developer decides that *everything* about the app is tweakable via config.ini, and Strange Things Start To Happen(tm)

If we ever get a standardised /programs0 (or whatever) install paradigm with JEmplode support for point and click installs, then it would be relatively easy to tell JEmplode to edit/save /programs0/etc/gpsapp.ini rather than config.ini for this step, and I think that is the way we should go..eventually.

gpsapp actually knows how to deal if config.ini grows too large, because size limitations suck, but changing files is easy enough.

or receivers which can be "set once" have a menu item to "initialize foo receiver". This would cover the SVee6/SVee8.

Actually it seems like the SV6 doesn't reliably remember NMEA settings across reboots. So that will probably have to rely on active intialization sequences anyways. Besides I prefer to explictily set receivers into a known state rather than relying on implicit state after a reboot, that should keep things more reliable in case someone forgets to connect the backup battery, or the battery dies.

I guess I'll probably do this for 0.12, unless 0.11 comes later than I expect.

0.12 it will have to be. I just drove home with 0.11 running and it seemed to work, so I just pointed the gpsapp webpage at the new version.

Edit: I guess I can just turn this into the new announcement.

GPSapp v0.11 is out. It contains a whole bunch of useful updates from dbrashear.

- untested earthmate support.
- reads default settings from config.ini.
- shows which 'toggle state' got selected from the menu
- Oncore init sequences

And ofcourse I couldn't help but add some things myself, so any bugs are definitely mine.

Besides I prefer to explictily set receivers into a known state

I agree, but do we know that for instance if you send TSIP to every non-Trimble NMEA unit they stay happy? They *should*...

so any bugs are definitely mine.

Actually, the Earthmate bugs are probably all mine.

Is the format for the config.ini settings "param: value" or "param=value"? If I understand the readme you are using the first format, but you might want to use the second instead since everything else that uses config.ini uses the second sentax.

-Mike

Thanks for the config.ini addition. Big step in useability

I have not been able to get the new M50... script to run, I get the following shell report:

kftpd: listening on port 21
player.cpp : 385:empeg-car 2.00-beta13 2002/07/24.
: No such file or directoryacman: /programs0/empacman
: command not foundd/M50gpsapp:
: command not foundd/M50gpsapp: exit
: No such file or directoryapp: /programs0/gpsapp
: command not foundd/M50gpsapp:
Prolux 4 empeg car - 2.1434 Jul 24 2002

and no GPSapp in the Hijack menu.

However, the previous version, with the $Protocol statement does work fine. I have added the protocol=tsip ("=" seems to be right for the other options) statement to config.ini but ??? Seems like Preinit doesn't like something - any clues?

Also, the satellite signal strength change is probably not helpful for Trimble receivers, could this be protocol dependent to at least retain the old scaling with TSIP?

Lynn

Ahh, nevermind. Trial and error shows that it is using the equals syntax. Cool.

-Mike

Do you have 'incar' installed?

The second. The readme just explains what the values are. My fault.

Incidentally I had considered including in the README patch a suggestion to put gpsapp lines at the end, since the code was explicitly written to be able to parse large files. It's evil, too. I started with some of the hijack code, and rewrote to support the twisted ends I wanted for the parsing.

A more generic parser for config.ini is available LGPL'd in Wine, but this is customized for GPSapp and I attempted to keep it small.

The next question is (when we're ready) does it make sense for every app to have a config file, or one for all apps?