#10992 - 07/07/2000 08:43
A Rather Bizarre Request
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enthusiast
Registered: 12/11/1999
Posts: 261
Loc: Bay Area, California
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Maybe it's not so bizarre. We'll see what other people think. I would GLADLY trade the use of the remote control to have a CLEAR display, so that the screen had nothing stopping its brightness.  I understand that some coating is required to prevent the sun from pretending to be a remote control. If I had the option of turning the remote sensor off entirely (I almost NEVER use the remote), then that would free up the possibility of having a clear display, letting me have the screen in all its glory unfettered by color-filters. This is important to me because I don't care what color you have, if you have a convertible, you can't see anything, and "every little bit brighter" you can make the display the better. Whattaya say? That display would HAVE to be cheaper to make than the current screens... its the same plastic without any tint or UV coating! Plus I think the "see the circuitry" effect would also be slightly neat, but that's not a practical reason. D
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#10993 - 07/07/2000 09:38
Re: A Rather Bizarre Request
[Re: Dredd]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 21/05/1999
Posts: 5335
Loc: Cambridge UK
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The Mark 2 doesn't need the IR filter, as we've switched to IR receivers with a filter built in.
One thing I can tell you for sure, though, is that an untinted display will be VERY hard to see in sunlight. Whilst experimenting with display tints we actually had to darken some of them to get satisfactory contrast. You can prove this for yourself if you remove the front panel.
The ITO coating also becomes rather reflective on a clear substrate.
Price isn't really an issue, although it would be a pain to have to reset the injection machine for an additional run of just a few clear screens.
Practical arguments aside, I also think it would look crap. If we're going to do an "i-empeg" I'd rather wait a while and do it properly as a future special edition!
Rob
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#10994 - 07/07/2000 10:35
Re: A Rather Bizarre Request
[Re: rob]
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addict
Registered: 15/07/1999
Posts: 568
Loc: Meije, Netherlands
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What's an "i-empeg" Henno mark2 nr: 006
_________________________
Henno
mk2 [orange]6 [/orange]nr 6
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#10995 - 07/07/2000 11:15
Re: A Rather Bizarre Request
[Re: rob]
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enthusiast
Registered: 12/11/1999
Posts: 261
Loc: Bay Area, California
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Maybe then one coated with that anti-glare [censored] they use on anti-glare-filters for monitors? I dunno... just that the glare with the top down is... enormous. Not that the presence of the sun is your fault , but I'm trying to do what I can. D
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#10996 - 07/07/2000 11:31
Re: A Rather Bizarre Request
[Re: Henno]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31602
Loc: Seattle, WA
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What's an "i-empeg"?
Rob was making a joke about the i-macs and their see-through casing.
___________
Tony Fabris
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#10997 - 07/07/2000 12:57
Re: A Rather Bizarre Request
[Re: Dredd]
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stranger
Registered: 08/06/1999
Posts: 48
Loc: Cambridge, UK
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You could use a sheet of circularly polarised filter material- you lose 1/2 the emitted light, but about 98% of reflected sunlight - could well do the job, and it's a neutral (grey) colour. Maplin used to do it, Farnell definitely stock it.
I know where you're coming from on the open top glare issue, although the graphichs smear massively in mine, as my retinas are shaking at roughly the refresh rate of the display :)
The green filter is the best stock option for sunlight visibility, by the way.
Steve
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#10998 - 07/07/2000 13:06
Re: A Rather Bizarre Request
[Re: steve]
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enthusiast
Registered: 12/11/1999
Posts: 261
Loc: Bay Area, California
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Losing 50% of the color-filtered light makes the display as dark as they are now (The pre-fix blue displays) which is probably not good either.
This comes back to "let's get a clear screen" and attach the material you're mentioning to it (or bond it, or however it works). Losing 50% of the unfiltered light from the display would probably be fine, IF there was significantly reduced glare (as you describe it there should be).
Rob? Do you have something perhaps I can tinker with?
D
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#10999 - 07/07/2000 15:25
Re: A Rather Bizarre Request
[Re: Dredd]
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enthusiast
Registered: 15/06/1999
Posts: 259
Loc: Lincoln, NE
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The stuff you want is polaroid circular polarizer sheet. You can get it from Edmond Scientific.
They sell it in a 3" x 4" sheet for 14.50 in the 1999 catalog but should still be close.
They have four types
10% Neutral P/N J53-332
37% Neutral P/N J53-335
Amber P/N J53-338
Red P/N J53-341
Those part numbers are from catalog N997A and their phone number is (856)573-6250
The 10% only allows 10% of the light through and 37% lets through 37% but both will block about 98% of the ambient light. The catalog doesn't say how transmissive the red and amber are.
-Wishing my Mark2 hadn't got stuck in customs.
_________________________
Brian -See my empeg <a href="www.hulkster.net/empeg" target="_blank">here</a>-
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#11000 - 07/07/2000 17:35
Re: A Rather Bizarre Request
[Re: Dredd]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 21/05/1999
Posts: 5335
Loc: Cambridge UK
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I already have a company looking into the anti-reflection options that may be open to us. Unfortunately it's not as easy to coat an injection moulded part as it was to coat the Mk.1 screens.
Rob
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#11001 - 07/07/2000 17:39
Re: A Rather Bizarre Request
[Re: bmihulka]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 21/05/1999
Posts: 5335
Loc: Cambridge UK
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That wouldn't be any use, it blocks far too much emitted light. Also, we need something that can be bonded to a polycarbonate moulded part and then hard coated.
We are exploring these options in some depth.
Rob
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#11002 - 07/07/2000 19:10
Re: A Rather Bizarre Request
[Re: rob]
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enthusiast
Registered: 12/11/1999
Posts: 261
Loc: Bay Area, California
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Exploring them now, eh? Could that be because its now finally warm enough in the UK for the MX5 I hear about over there to have its top come down and replicate exactly the conditions I have in my MX5(Miata) over here?  Necessity IS the mother of all invention.  D
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#11003 - 07/07/2000 20:34
Re: A Rather Bizarre Request
[Re: Dredd]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31602
Loc: Seattle, WA
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Could that be because its now finally warm enough in the UK for the MX5 I hear about over there to have its top come down and replicate exactly the conditions I have in my MX5(Miata) over here?
Impossible. It's England we're talking about.
Necessity IS the mother of all invention.
Or, as my stepfather used to say, "Necessity is a mother."
___________
Tony Fabris
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#11004 - 08/07/2000 01:26
Re: A Rather Bizarre Request
[Re: Dredd]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 25/06/1999
Posts: 2993
Loc: Wareham, Dorset, UK
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I have to admit that I have had no problems in the TR 6, and I drive it year round with the top down  . That's a blue Mk1, similar to the screen of the batch 40 Mk2. Mind you though, why are you looking at the screen of your empeg when you are driving with the top down? One of the few remaining Mk1 owners... #00015
_________________________
One of the few remaining Mk1 owners...  #00015
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#11005 - 10/07/2000 07:26
Re: A Rather Bizarre Request
[Re: schofiel]
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new poster
Registered: 09/05/2000
Posts: 20
Loc: Cambridge
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I've got a Mk1 installed in a convertable (Honest, I only look at the display when I'm stopped at lights, or when I'm a passenger) and on many days (even in England) I really can't make out the display (not without leaning forward and sheilding the display with my hand).
It got me thinking that a reflective LCD would work much better. Actually this is quite ironic. For years I've been looking at gizmos with LCD displays and thinking "Why don't they use a light emitting display hidden behind a tinted cover, it would look much cooler." Well, I guess I have my answer now.
.Pete
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#11006 - 10/07/2000 07:46
Re: A Rather Bizarre Request
[Re: mrgray]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31602
Loc: Seattle, WA
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on many days (even in England) I really can't make out the display (not without leaning forward and sheilding the display with my hand)... It got me thinking that a reflective LCD would work much better.
I've had radios with reflective LCD's and they wash out in direct sunlight just as badly.
In fact, I don't know of ANY car stereo display that doesn't wash out in direct sunlight. The Empeg does pretty darn well, considering.
___________
Tony Fabris
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#11007 - 10/07/2000 10:41
Re: A Rather Bizarre Request
[Re: schofiel]
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member
Registered: 08/05/2000
Posts: 135
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In reply to:
Mind you though, why are you looking at the screen of your empeg when you are driving with the top down?
Yeah, you should be looking at women in bikini's or spandex or something.
Kureg
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#11008 - 10/07/2000 15:15
Re: A Rather Bizarre Request
[Re: tfabris]
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Pooh-Bah
Registered: 09/09/1999
Posts: 1721
Loc: San Jose, CA
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My Alpine gets pretty washed out to the point of being unreadable as well.
It looks cool at night though.
Calvin
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#11009 - 12/09/2000 16:53
Re: A Rather Bizarre Request
[Re: mrgray]
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stranger
Registered: 12/09/2000
Posts: 46
Loc: NC, USA
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LCDs vary quite a bit. I took my Mk2-080000260 over to the local high-end car stereo shop to buy new speakers and amps for the empeg. (The guy there was astounded by how much cooler it was than anything he had to sell.) Anyway, many of them had full color LCDs. Most of the LCD were very reflective, but the Alpines vastly better than all others. Don't know why...
Just about all monochrome displays in cars and car stereos have much less glare than empegs. It's my number one beef with the unit (probably because all other aspects exceed my wildest dreams).
-jim
_________________________
-jim [blue]080000260[/blue] w/18G in a [green]Carrera[/green]
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#11010 - 14/09/2000 13:28
Re: A Rather Bizarre Request
[Re: tfabris]
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enthusiast
Registered: 27/09/1999
Posts: 200
Loc: Berkeley, CA
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In reply to:
I've had radios with reflective LCD's and they wash out in direct sunlight just as badly.
Nothing like replying to a two-month old post, but life's been like that this year.
There's a class of reflective LCD that will not wash out under any circumstances that I've experience, and I'm in Sunny California.
The amateur radio in my Miata has one, and in full sun, the only think that washes out is the backlight. It's still perfectly readable, high contrast and all. Now, I don't know if it's possible to do a dot-matrix LCD using this technology. The radio is a Kenwood TM-742A and it's mounted immediately below the Mk.I in the Miata. There are numerous circumstances where the empeg is totally washed out and the Kenwood as sharp as ever. And the empeg is green, yes.
Maybe there's hope in the new transflective displays lke the iPaq. As soon as our IT guy gets one, I'll haul it outside. (I love the hardware, but WinCE makes my skin crawl.)
-Zandr
Mk.I #150
Mk.II #39
_________________________
-Zandr
Mk.IIa #010101243 currently getting a 500GB SSD. More spares in the shed.
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#11011 - 14/09/2000 16:25
Re: A Rather Bizarre Request
[Re: n6mod]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 19/05/1999
Posts: 3457
Loc: Palo Alto, CA
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That's ok, the i3680(?) uses a Strongarm, rather closely related to the one in the empeg. You can run linux (and X...!) on it too...
Hugo
(the empeg is faster: 221MHz vs 206MHz ;) )
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#11012 - 15/09/2000 12:10
Re: A Rather Bizarre Request
[Re: altman]
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enthusiast
Registered: 27/09/1999
Posts: 200
Loc: Berkeley, CA
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StrongARM? Linux?
Uh oh. That's pretty expensive information...especially given the really nice Aviation GPS software for the Compaq.
Hmmmm....
-Zandr
Mk.I #150
Mk.II #39
_________________________
-Zandr
Mk.IIa #010101243 currently getting a 500GB SSD. More spares in the shed.
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#11013 - 21/09/2000 10:09
Re: A Rather Bizarre Request
[Re: n6mod]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 08/06/1999
Posts: 7868
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Maybe there's hope in the new transflective displays lke the iPaq. As soon as our IT guy gets one, I'll haul it outside. (I love the hardware, but WinCE makes my skin crawl.)
The screen is very nice even when in direct sunlight. Much better then any other color LCD I have seen. This, along with a few other things about the iPaq Pocket PC like Linux got me to convert from the Palm V.
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#11014 - 21/09/2000 16:44
Re: A Rather Bizarre Request
[Re: drakino]
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member
Registered: 16/12/1999
Posts: 188
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
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Personally, I don't like LCD screens on sunny days. If you're wearing polarising sunglasses, then with my previous head unit you have to turn your head on an angle to read it at all!
Richard.
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