Originally Posted By: tfabris
I think that this VW thing is probably getting blown way out of proportion by the news.
No, it isn't. It is deliberate fraud on a massive scale, 11 million vehicles, putting out more than a million tons of nitrous oxide emissions each year. That is more NOx emission than all of the UK's NOx emissions from all sources: power plants, vehicles, industry, agriculture, etc.

Originally Posted By: tfabris
I'm not entirely convinced that the engine management software was deliberately coded in a nefarious way.
Of course it was. One of VW's engineers, according to VW's own records, stated four years ago that the software they were using was illegal, as did Bosch. We're not talking about "Oh, gee, under certain conditions the car emits a bit more NOx than it should." We're talking about a vehicle whose emissions are forty times greater than allowed, except when being emissions tested at which time it miraculously reduces its emissions, at the expense of fuel economy, performance, and engine longevity. The engine management parameters are completely remapped whenever the car is connected for testing. That's not a slip where they programmed in ones and in zeroes and temporarily ran out of ones!

Originally Posted By: tfabris
it sounds like the problem is in Bosch's software, not VW's.
It is Bosch's software, but it is VW's problem. The software that VW used was provided by Bosch as an engine development tool and VW was explicitly told that it was not legal for road use. VW couldn't meet its economy, performance, and longevity goals with all the emissions controls in place, so they used the engine development software to enable the emissions controls only during emissions testing. They were told by their own engineer and by Bosch not to do that. They did it anyway.

Originally Posted By: tfabris
If Bosch made the computer and wrote the software, regardless of whether or not they told VW not to use it, then why aren't they in the crosshairs here too?
Because the software worked properly for its intended purpose: Engine Development. It was not intended to be used on the road. VW knew this, and used it anyway.

Originally Posted By: tfabris
The news article is putting those sentences together and IMPLYING that those pieces of information were used to defeat the tests, without actually saying that anyone had proof that those pieces of information WERE used to defeat the tests
How much proof do you need? Both the EPA and CARB (California Air Resources Board) have demonstrated conclusively that the emissions performance is totally different when connected to an emissions testing device, following the discovery of this unusual behavior by the team at West Virginia University. This could NOT happen serendipitously. [Hah! I claim first ever usage of that word on this bbs!] It would require some deliberate and pretty sophisticated coding to accomplish it.

Originally Posted By: tfabris
This doesn't mean the company currently believes the problem was deliberate fraud on their part.
VW has admitted it. At first they tried to whitewash it with a voluntary recall of the half million US cars, but CARB caught them with their pants down and they had to 'fess up to the "dual coding" in their computers because it was so obviously and demonstrably the case. Then they conceded that there might be a few other cars with similar problems scattered around the world... another ten and a half million of them.

This is not a little mistake. It is a deliberate fraudulent action that netted VW billions of dollars in unethical profits, and the ultimate victims will be the 11 million people who purchased these cars (loss of value and loss of performance/economy/longevity if or when the problem is solved) and the VW stockholders who have already seen the value of their stock drop by a third, with possibly more to come.

It easily ranks in the top 10 of the worst frauds in recent history.

tanstaafl.
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"There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch"