Windows 2000 Networking Question

Under Windows 98, I can go into the Network properties and add more than one TCP/IP protocol. For example, having one that works on DHCP and another that works on a fixed IP address.

This is what I'd like to do with my Windows 2000 box: Have it do both DHCP as well as assign a fixed IP.

The purpose is so that I can talk to the Empeg over ethernet without having to switch the Empeg's mode from DHCP (to match my office network) to fixed (to match my home network).

The only problem is that I can't seem to add another TCP/IP protocol to the network panel in Windows 2000. At least not the way I can in 95/98.

I can add more than one fixed IP address to the TCP/IP protocol in Windows 2000, but I can't figure out how to mix a fixed address and a DHCP address in Windows 2000.

Anyone else know how to do this?

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Tony Fabris

I don't run 2000 at home, so I can't check this, but I set up a presentation laptop a while ago...
There is a dummy interface "adaptor" available in the network properties, just add one for each IP.
Sorry I can't be more specific... =)

Jazz
(List 112, Mk2 12 gig #40. Mk1 4 gig #30. Mk3 1.6 16v)

Darn, I wish there was a way you could look this up. I can't find a way to add a dummy adapter. I understand why that would work, and I think I know how I'd go about it if I could only figure out how to add a dummy adapter.

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Tony Fabris

I'm sure it was as simple as network properties, add, adaptor, microsoft virtual adaptor (or something like that)... I remember being surprised by how easy it was, as I was expecting the usual M$ trouble... =)
We used it on a laptop running Domino server to set up 6 virtual domains for a website presentation. We did this so it would look like it was actually on the internet, whereas in reality no phone connection was available... =)

I'll try to "borrow" a win 2K machine at work tomorrow and check it out...

Jazz
(List 112, Mk2 12 gig #40. Mk1 4 gig #30. Mk3 1.6 16v)

I'm sure it was as simple as network properties, add, adaptor, microsoft virtual adaptor (or something like that)...

Exactly. That's the first thing I tried. I don't get "Adaptor" as one of the options I can add. All I get is Client, Service, and Protocol. And when I try to add a protocol, TCP/IP isn't offered (I assume because it's already installed).

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Tony Fabris

Hmm... I tried pulling up additional protocols, it gave me the option for TCP/IP, it let me install it, but it doesn't show up as a second configurable protocol. I also tried the Add New Hardware wizard, but the only MS adapter available was for loopback. Still thinking about it...


Paul G.
SN# 090000587 (40GB Green)

While you were posting this, I found the MS KB article about the loopback adapter. I am trying it now. Let you know in a sec...

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Tony Fabris

When you add the device "Microsoft Loopback Adapter" via that add/remove hardware wizard, you get another Local Area Connection named "Local Area Connection 2" that's attached to this adapter.

I tried setting it to a fixed address on the same subnet as the Empeg, but I still can't ping the Empeg's fixed IP address from my computer. Maybe the loopback adapter isn't meant for this kind of behavior.

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Tony Fabris

What about a hardware profile???

Paul G.
SN# 090000587 (40GB Green)

What about a hardware profile?

I'm interested in having this work 100% of the time, not having to switch hardware profiles. If I'm gonna do that, I might as well do what I'm already doing, which is switching the Empeg back and forth between fixed and DHCP via the USB cable.


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Tony Fabris

There is no way in 2000 to have a static IP and a DHCP IP on one adaptor. NT 4 had the same limitation, but Windows XP does correct this oversight. It's possible a future service pack may also add this ability to 2000.

A possible dirty solution - do you want to run a small (1 IP) DCHP server on your home net? Are you running W2K Server or Professional?

Paul G.
SN# 090000587 (40GB Green)

Or just use USB at home and DHCP in the office... =)

Jazz
(List 112, Mk2 12 gig #40. Mk1 4 gig #30. Mk3 1.6 16v)

Do I get this right Tony? Why would you want to use DHCP on your win2000 box? Have you got a DHCP-server running at home which should assign a second IP-address to your win2k box?
I guess the way you want to go is assigning two IP-adresses to the empeg's NIC. One (eth0) gets assigned an IP-address by the player-app using DHCP and the other(eth0:0) should be fixed. It involves a new kernel including IP-aliasing. I can remember I had it running this way with some modified init-script.
I do not use it anymore though; I'm also administering DHCP/BOOTP at work, so I gave the empeg an unlimited DHCP-lease and switched DHCP off on the empeg. Problem solved...

Frank van Gestel

A possible dirty solution - do you want to run a small (1 IP) DCHP server on your home net?

Yes, one day I will be running DHCP at home. As soon as I get a broadband connection to my house, then I'll have one of those NAT router/firewall boxes doing DHCP. But not right now. For now, I'm just going to run fixed IP's at home.

Are you running W2K Server or Professional?

At home, neither. All the boxes on my home network are Win98. Plus, none of them are "always-on", so I can't effectively run a DHCP server on my home LAN at the current time.

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Tony Fabris

Or just use USB at home and DHCP in the office... =)

Yes, I can run either USB or ethernet at home and at the office. But the whole reason I want to get ethernet transparently working in both locations is because I like Displayserver.

Specifically, I use Displayserver as a tool which lets the Empeg become a home->work file taxi with hundreds of megabytes of capacity. Who needs zip drives when I'm already carrying the empeg back and forth between home and work?

It works like this:

- Anything I want to taxi, I zip up into a file called TAXI.ZIP.
- Rename TAXI.ZIP to TAXI.MP3
- Use Emplode to put TAXI.MP3 into the "Unattached Items" playlist.
- Take the empeg to the other location (home or office).
- Use Displayserver to grab TAXI.MP3 out of that playlist.
- Rename it and unzip it.
- Use Emplode to delete TAXI.MP3 from the empeg.

Now, you only need ethernet at the destination end of that transaction. My problem is that I do this sort of thing in both directions, on networks that are configured two different ways (home=fixed IPs, work=DHCP on a different set of subnet addresses). So whenever I switch directions, it requires me to do the extra step of re-configuring the Empeg to recognize the other type of network.

I was just hoping I could add a fixed IP to Win2k that allowed it to work on the same subnet as the Empeg.

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Tony Fabris

Why would you want to use DHCP on your win2000 box? Have you got a DHCP-server running at home which should assign a second IP-address to your win2k box?

Just the opposite. The Win2k box is on the DHCP network at work. The fixed IP addresses are at home and I have no DHCP server at home.

So every time I'm at home, I need to configure the Empeg to be 10.0.0.43, and every time I'm at work, I need to configure the Empeg to be DHCP and to pull an address from my work LAN's pool.

If I don't do this, since the Work LAN's IP address pool is on a different subnet than 10.0.0, my Win2k PC refuses to talk to the Empeg even if I feed it the IP address directly.

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Tony Fabris

I'm guessing adding a second NIC to the 2000 box is out of the question?


Bill B.
Mk.2 SN 080000183 - 38 GB / Green

Sounds like you need a USB taxi program... =)
Thanks to the work done by Frank, I've got the connection working both ways under windows...
At the moment you need the developer image on the empeg, but I'm sure something better will appear in time... =)

Jazz
(List 112, Mk2 12 gig #40. Mk1 4 gig #30. Mk3 1.6 16v)

I'm guessing adding a second NIC to the 2000 box is out of the question?

Heh. Don't think that didn't cross my mind!

Still, it would be immensly frustrating to have to go to that kind of trouble, when (as Drakino pointed out) I'd essentially be working around a software limitation by adding hardware.

I mean... half a dozen clicks in Win98 will get me a second TCP protocol attached to the same card. Why not the same thing in Win2k?

Plus, I don't have any extra NICs laying around right now. Was looking for a quick software solution.

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Tony Fabris

Sounds like you need a USB taxi program... =) Thanks to the work done by Frank, I've got the connection working both ways under windows...

We need to talk.

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Tony Fabris

Couldn't you have a chat with the network admin to set you up with a permanent lease for your empeg? Have it get the lease once and then shut off DHCP on the empeg.That way you could add a second ip on your home win98 box in the same subnet as your work IP.

BTW some network-admins can get mad when you try to use private ip-adresses (10.10.10.10) on their network

Frank van Gestel

Edited by fvgestel on 14/02/01 10:43 PM.

Well, I've got a quick and dirty version working, but you need to use the serial shell to start the transfer...
If you are running the developer software on the empeg, you are welcome to try it... =)


Jazz
(List 112, Mk2 12 gig #40. Mk1 4 gig #30. Mk3 1.6 16v)

Couldn't you have a chat with the network admin to set you up with a permanent lease for your empeg?

I don't have the ability to request a permanent lease from my DHCP server, but I do have a handful of fixed addresses on my LAN that I am free to use however I see fit. The addresses are reserved for things like servers and routers. I have considered doing exactly what you said: Assigning a fixed IP to the Empeg that falls within that range.

(I know this sounds a little strange. I'm the network admin for my local department, so I control the local servers. However, I do not control the DHCP server. Corporate HQ controls the DHCP server and has given me the specs for it, including what the fixed addresses are reserved for.)

The problem is that the range of available fixed addresses on my LAN is very narrow. I need them for future expansion.

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Tony Fabris

Just out of curiosity, would it work on a Mark1 as well?

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Tony Fabris

Silly question:

I assume you're running some sort of dual homed machine to share your highspeed connection? This is probably doing NAT of some sort? Why not give your home network an illegal copy of your work's IP space and then have the empeg use a fixed (work) address? If you connect to an office resource from home, this might be a problem if your home network shares an IP with the (legitimate) IP address you're trying to access at work. Apart from that, the outside world never sees you IP addresses (assuming you NAT solution is working 100%), so it shouldn't really care.

-Zeke

just say you weren't paying much attention...

I could do something like what you suggest (change my home network's fixed addresses to be the same subnet as my work), but it would involve assigning a fixed IP address to the empeg that takes up one of my scarce fixed addresses on the work network.

What I want is to do it the other way around: Use a fixed IP address on the Empeg that's the same as my home network (and different from my work's subnet), but the fact that Win2K won't let me be on two subnets at once is the thing that's stopping me.

Wow, it's amazing how much trouble a simple Win2K software limitation can cause, eh?

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Tony Fabris

Here yo go Tony, right out of the newest build of Windows XP:

Yep, works perfectly on Mk1 as well... =)

Jazz
(List 112, Mk2 12 gig #40. Mk1 4 gig #30. Mk3 1.6 16v)

Or not, couldn't edit the post to change the IMG tag. Being able to edit the message at least a min or so after posting would be nice. Some fourms seem to allow it, while this one and General dosent.

Anyhow, here you go:

All right. I'm game to try it. Is it a stand-alone program, or does it require yet another change to the kernel? Where on the Empeg does it store the taxi'd files?

I can issue a command to the serial port with a batch file fairly simply, so it could be pretty simple to work it I think.

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Tony Fabris

Interesting. I gotta look up some more info on this new OS.

Also, is it just me, or is that UI looking a lot like Mac OS X? Is history repeating itself at Microsoft?

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Tony Fabris

I wouldn't say it looks like MacOSX too much, but i see what you are sayin', they are just taking the standard interface they've got going and rounding and smoothing a bit. Simplifying it a tad to.


|| loren.cox || 080000446 ||

...and I seem to remember macos8 having multiple IP configurations you could pick, too...

Hugo

Nothing to install on the empeg yet, as long as you are running the developer version.
It only goes from empeg -> PC at the moment, as emplode does a nice job of loading the files over usb. Later on I'll provide an uploader which will put the Taxi files in a seperate directory.
Here is the file... http://nrg.nu/files/empegTaxi.zip
It's only really a test program at the moment, put I have plans... =)

Jazz
(List 112, Mk2 12 gig #40. Mk1 4 gig #30. Mk3 1.6 16v)

Greetings!

Another random thought - could you use the picker application on the empeg to select a boot environment? Have one go for DHCP (office) and one for home (fixed). If I remember correctly, the network information is stored in an ini file, so you might be able to select which ini file (or rename the correct one) based on your selection.

Paul G.
SN# 090000587 (40GB Green)

- Additional...

Granted, this would only do anything useful on the empeg, but it would allow you to swap it between home and work nets in a potentially easy manner. Would this kind of solution be sufficient?

Edited by pgrzelak on 15/02/01 12:49 AM.

Another random thought - could you use the picker application on the empeg to select a boot environment? Have one go for DHCP (office) and one for home (fixed).

There are those who would argue that such functionality (choosing DHCP or entering a fixed IP address) should be built into the Empeg player UI, and that neither Emplode nor a third-party picker app should be required to set it.

Reasoning: Some users don't have Windoze and depend upon things like Java Emplode to get the job done. If the Empeg can't have its IP address set from the front panel, you run into problems like the one user (can't remember- was it Crewe) who couldn't load songs when they first got it.

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Tony Fabris

WOW.

I haven't run the software yet, but just from looking at the Readme, I now understand how it works. Amazing.

You know, with just a little bit of COM port programming, you could make it into a totally menu-driven file manager application for the Empeg. Never even have to look at the command prompt. Insane. Great work.

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Tony Fabris

Valid point. I would like the TCP/IP configurable from the panel directly as well. That would make it much easier to set up initially.

Another thing that might be nice would be alternate configuration on the empeg itself. If DHCP is set, attempt. But if you don't get a reply, fall back to a fixed IP. W2K does that too... (192.168.0.x, if I remember correctly...)

Paul G.
SN# 090000587 (40GB Green)

And by the way, I get an "Could not connect to Empeg" error when I run EmpegTaxi.exe on my system. Probably a Win2000 thing.

Still, very VERY promising concept, and I could really see it working once you can communicate on the COM port yourself and parse the screens.

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Tony Fabris

Another thing that might be nice would be alternate configuration on the empeg itself. If DHCP is set, attempt. But if you don't get a reply, fall back to a fixed IP.

This, of course, would work great for me.

I would need it to go to the extra step of allowing me to configure which fixed IP it falls back to. Either that or renumbering my home network to be 192.168.0.x

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Tony Fabris

I'm halfway through doing that, although as it's nearly 1am, I'm going to stop for the night...
Ideally I'll get my C together and write a program for the empeg to run (launched from a picker menu or whatever) which will replace the user shell stuff (I've got a proper packet protocol as well)

Jazz
(List 112, Mk2 12 gig #40. Mk1 4 gig #30. Mk3 1.6 16v)

Ideally I'll get my C together and write a program for the empeg to run (launched from a picker menu or whatever) which will replace the user shell stuff

No, don't do that!

Your current design is better, since it doesn't need any third-party software installed on the Empeg. Just put the developer image on it and then your program works.

All your program needs to do is send the proper keystrokes to the serial port and parse the screens it gets back.

Okay, so it needs two cables (USB/Serial) connected instead of one. So what?

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Tony Fabris

Drat...
I'll have to get Win2k setup at some point so I can test these things. It's working fine here under WinME.
(You did have the empeg connected to the USB port didn't you... ;)

Jazz
(List 112, Mk2 12 gig #40. Mk1 4 gig #30. Mk3 1.6 16v)

Fair comment... =)
I should have something like that working tomorrow... Watch this space... =)

Jazz
(List 112, Mk2 12 gig #40. Mk1 4 gig #30. Mk3 1.6 16v)

98 and 2k fallback into the uPnP space of 169.254.x.x when they don't see a DHCP server. (universal Plug n Play, the supposed new standard that will allow all your consumer devices to talk to each other.)

Would this program or a variant be usable as the oft-requested empeg backup utility?

tanstaafl.

"There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch"

I don't see why not... =)
I've been pulling mp3's off to test the connection so _technically_ you could pull all the mp3's and playlists off the empeg.
Putting them back on the empeg could be more tricky however...

Jazz
(List 112, Mk2 12 gig #40. Mk1 4 gig #30. Mk3 1.6 16v)

Same thing here, the problem is in the resetdevice and resetpipe ioctrls

Frank van Gestel

This could still be the case : connect the empeg with serial and usb. Stop the player app over serial and transfer a binary over serial to the empeg. start the executable and let usb take over...

Frank van Gestel

Just install a DHCP server. That will solve your problems, and it will clear up a load of other issues if you have more than one machine at home too.

My DHCP server is only using 52 Kb of RAM so it's not like it's gonna bog your machine down.

Have you tried setting the main address to DHCP, then add an additional fixed address under the advanced tab.

Just tried that here on a friends w2k box and it worked fine. Haven't seen what havoc will occur after a reboot though.

Also, is it just me, or is that UI looking a lot like Mac OS X? Is history repeating itself at Microsoft?

Nah, it looks more like a theme for GNOME (a unix desktop) than Mac OS X. The GUI Architecture in OS X is way more advanced that what MS have in XP (or what GNOME and KDE have).

Have you tried setting the main address to DHCP, then add an additional fixed address under the advanced tab.

That was the very first thing I tried. It's the exact thing I wanted to do, and was thwarted.

When the main address is DHCP-enabled, the "Add" button on the Advanced tab is grayed out.

Just tried that here on a friends w2k box and it worked fine.

I'd sure like to know how you got it to happen.

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Tony Fabris

I'll have to get Win2k setup at some point so I can test these things.

Yes, it's frightening how many little incompatibilities there are between various versions of the Win32 OS's. Testing is important.

I just got done writing a piece of installer software which adds a web site to Internet Information Server. The API's to get this job done are very poorly documented, but I managed it through a lot of trial-and-error. Finally, I had something working on NT4, and it refuses to run on Windows 2000. There is one innocent little function call, and I'm getting a strange error code returned from this function, one that's not documented. The funny thing is, the way the API's are designed, it's not possible to get the job done unless this function works on Win2k. So why should it work on NT4 and fail on Win2K?


You did have the empeg connected to the USB port didn't you...

Although I have been known to be a complete moron at certain times in my life, this is not one of them. I checked to make sure I was able to synch via USB after I got that error. Frank duplicated the problem, so it's definitely a Win2K incompatibility.

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Tony Fabris

here's a version which works on win2k. It doesn't use the resetdevice/resetpipe calls.


Frank van Gestel

That worked. Although there's some confusion with the behavior compared to the readme.txt I got from the previous version of the program. It didn't automatically pop up the dialog when I echoed the file size to the pipe. So I clicked on the "file" checkbox, gave it a file name, then echoed again. The transfer worked, but the echo appeared at the beginning of the file, and the end of the file was cut short (presumably by the number of characters in the echo).

But hey, it worked.

I'd definitely like to see a version which did the serial commands for you, and worked bidirectionally.

Note: If you guys are doing a version that does the serial commands for you, may I make a suggestion "in advance"?

I'm running a modified startup shell script which loops through a selecter program (allowing me to choose whether or not to run RJLov's volume adjustment kernel). This means when you quit the player app with a serial "Q", it allows you to re-select. In order to drop to the bash prompt, you need to do a second "Q". I think I'm not the only one who does this, so whatever commands you use to quit the player app, make them configurable.



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Tony Fabris

That's an earlier version of the test program, empegTaxi is the one that supports the command system mentioned in the readme... =)
That version requires a click on the to file box, you then cat the file to /dev/usb and when it completes click the checkbox off again...

I'm playing with the serial stuff at the moment, so I'll keep the suggestions in mind... =)

Jazz
(List 112, Mk2 12 gig #40. Mk1 4 gig #30. Mk3 1.6 16v)

There is a (hopefully) windows 2000 compatible version at http://nrg.nu/files/empegTaxi.zip
Still playing with the serial stuff though... =)

Jazz
(List 112, Mk2 12 gig #40. Mk1 4 gig #30. Mk3 1.6 16v)

That one doesn't work for me. I still get "cannot connect to empeg". The one Frank sent me works, although like you said, it uses the old-style user interface. If you want to mess around and send me more stuff directly to test, we can drop this discussion off the BBS and go to e-mail or ICQ.

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Tony Fabris

Okay, the new version you replaced at the same link works great. Thanks!

This is really great, I'm looking forward to the version with the serial stuff built-in.

How are you planning on doing uploads? If you don't have a way of doing uploads right away, may I make another "in advance" suggestion?

Have it default to listing the contents of /drive0/fids and /drive1/fids in either most-recent order and/or largest-file order. In my case, both of those situations would list my taxi file if I'd chosen to upload it via Emplode.

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Tony Fabris

I was thinking of grepping the *1 files for user supplied keywords... =)
Your idea would work nicely as a secondary filter...

Watch this space... =)

Jazz
(List 112, Mk2 12 gig #40. Mk1 4 gig #30. Mk3 1.6 16v)

Or better yet...

There might be a way to easily figure out which *1 files are in "Unattached items"? Or am I dreaming?

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Tony Fabris

I dunno if you can find this out from the console, but I think the first two characters of a .zip file are always "PK"...

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Tony Fabris

I dunno if you can find this out from the console, but I think the first two characters of a .zip file are always "PK"...

We would need 'file' command and corresponding /etc/magic file. Handy to have anyway... Extracting first two bytes of every file with dd would be much slower.

Dragi "Bonzi" Raos
Zagreb, Croatia
Q#5196, MkII#80000376, 18GB green

what you need is to use the iphelper API to add a virtual address to the interface. there's probably a sample for that in the SDK or in the knowledge base.

or, get ipadd.exe from ftp.blarg.net:users/amol/ipadd.exe

the address will only last as long as the app is running.

Thanks! This looks like exactly the sort of thing I was looking for.

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Tony Fabris

OMFG... THAT WORKED!!!!!!!!!!!!!

THANK YOU!!!!!!!!!

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Tony Fabris

Okay, next question.

How do I tell my web browser not to try to go to my company's proxy server whenever I type in an address that starts with "10.x.x.x"?

I can't believe I have to ask this question. I go into the proxy options, and where it says "do not use proxy server for addresses beginning with", I put in "10." And it still tries to go to the proxy server. I have "do not use proxy server for local addresses" checked, and it still tries to go to the proxy server. WTF?!?!

Incidentally, I get the same results with either IE or Netscape.

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Tony Fabris

I can't believe I have to ask this question. I go into the proxy options, and where it says "do not use proxy server for addresses beginning with", I put in "10." And it still tries to go to the proxy server. I have "do not use proxy server for local addresses" checked, and it still tries to go to the proxy server. WTF?!?!

Not sure about Netscape for this, but IE needs 10.*.*.* entered if you want to ignore the 10.x.x.x subnet. I still have no clue what "Do not use proxy server for local addresses" actually does though.

Hmm. Still having trouble.

With IPADD running, I can now ping the Empeg, and Emplode has no trouble connecting to it and synching on the 10.0.0 subnet, but my web browser won't talk to displayserver. I think it's still going out to the proxy server, even with 10.*.*.* in that box. I'm going to mess around a bit more...

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Tony Fabris

Do you have either "Automaticially detect settings" or "Use automatic configuration script" checked? I've found that those will cause IE to ignore or overwrite your local ignore settings.

Also, do your proxies access internal sites? Mine do, and the symptoms I would see is that Displayservers home page worked fine, and a few others, but the java applet would never load. That was my only way of knowing if my browser went through the proxy or not.

Do you have either "Automaticially detect settings" or "Use automatic configuration script" checked? I've found that those will cause IE to ignore or overwrite your local ignore settings.

Grr. Yes, that's checked. When I get back into work tomorrow, I'll try turning that crap off. Hope it works.

Also, do your proxies access internal sites?

Not sure. They shouldn't. I'm not getting to talk to displayserver at all, even though I can ping the empeg and Emplode will talk to it just fine.

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Tony Fabris