HR10-250, HR20-700 or DishNetwork

I have two HR20-700s. I posted a mini-review here after I had the first one for a couple days. It's still not 100%, but things have been getting much better. As far as UI and features go, almost everything about it is better than the DirecTiVo boxes.

The current software should be considered beta, but it generally behaves well. Sometimes a recording will get botched, but it happens way less frequently than a couple months ago. OTA ATSC (no QAM) was enabled right before christmas, but was available to anyone that wanted it a few weeks before then. The way the HR20 gets software updates is over the satellite dish. A couple times, DirecTV has put a new build on the satellite for a couple hours during the evening. Since the boxes only look for new software early in the morning, only people that knew to force an update within the specified window would get the new build. This is a great system to allow everyone to stay on the bleeding edge if they want. It's something that never happened with Tivo.

The HR20 also has a crude form of HMO working with the built-in ethernet port. So far music and photo streaming are enabled, but video streaming should be coming soon. DirecTV claims you need an Intel Viiv compliant PC, but I have it working on my Opteron running WMP 11.

Posted by: Dignan

Re: HR10-250, HR20-700 or DishNetwork - 09/01/2007 02:28

Quote:
FiOS television is a compelling option if the hardware is OK.

That's what I'm trying to find out. There is very little information about the TV side. I was hoping to find a user forum or something, but so far I've only been able to find bad images of the backs of the boxes.

I'm hopeful, though. I found an image of the "Multi-Room DVR" that they offer. That's their highest-level box. Apparently it's not enabled yet, but it has an eSATA port on the back. That really got me interested.

Posted by: robricc

Re: HR10-250, HR20-700 or DishNetwork - 09/01/2007 12:13

I know you can't use DirecTV, but the eSATA port on the back of the HR20-700 is enabled.

Posted by: blitz

Re: HR10-250, HR20-700 or DishNetwork - 09/01/2007 12:31

Quote:
The problem? It would make using a Tivo a little difficult...

I googled to see if there was some type of hack for Tivo using USB ports. That would be pretty slick but alas nothing.

I don't know if something like this could be used with the Tivo box.

At least you could watch live with it and they do vastly improve the signal.

You might also complete this and see what they come up with. We have a lot of communication studies done (for telemetry radios) in areas with difficult terrain. Obviously, we install repeaters as necessary which you won't be able to do but maybe they can recommend a solution. Trees and terrain make it tough.

Posted by: blitz

Re: HR10-250, HR20-700 or DishNetwork - 09/01/2007 13:19

One question. Does the HR20-700 support simultaneous output of the various video formats. Meaning, S-Video, Component and HDMI?

Posted by: robricc

Re: HR10-250, HR20-700 or DishNetwork - 09/01/2007 13:32

Yes

EDIT: Let me add that if you have the HR20 setup for 16:9 output, that's what it will output on all connections. If you have a widescreen monitor on the component connections and a 4:3 monitor on the S-Video, the S-Video picture will look squished from the sides.

Posted by: blitz

Re: HR10-250, HR20-700 or DishNetwork - 09/01/2007 13:43

Ok. Thanks for you continued help. Leaving now to purchase.

Posted by: robricc

Re: HR10-250, HR20-700 or DishNetwork - 09/01/2007 13:53

OK, tonight between 11PM and 1:30AM eastern time, a new release candidate will be available on the satellite.

Also, once you first power it up, you may want to ensure you're using the most up-to-date release available. You do this by pressing 02468 in sequence at the first picture you see on-screen upon bootup. This will force a software update and it's a good idea to do this even before activating the receiver. If you're hooked up via HDMI-only, the first few boot screens won't be visible. It's best to do initial setup with component or composite/s-video.

The HR20 takes a long time to boot (about 5-10 minutes). Doing a software upgrade can add another 10 minutes to the process. Sometimes it may seem like it's hanging, but it's not. Resist the urge to reboot if it seem like it's hanging.

Posted by: blitz

Re: HR10-250, HR20-700 or DishNetwork - 09/01/2007 14:51

Quote:
Resist the urge ...

Must... try... to... resist.

I currently use component video only. My plasma is 720p and too big to shuck for a new one now. HDMI was invented shortly after I purchased it. Saving for the Panasonic 103". Only $67,000.

Posted by: tfabris

Re: HR10-250, HR20-700 or DishNetwork - 09/01/2007 17:34

Quote:
This is one solution.

Heh, those guys from my home town. I think I applied for a job with them, once upon a time.

Seems like everyone in that town is ex-Grass-Valley-Group employees starting their own video-related company.

Posted by: blitz

Re: HR10-250, HR20-700 or DishNetwork - 09/01/2007 20:01

I picked it up at lunch. Will connect later today. Thanks for all the help.

Posted by: blitz

Re: HR10-250, HR20-700 or DishNetwork - 10/01/2007 02:14

Rob,

Bought, updated and connected. So far so good. Really go UI so far. Need to poke around a little bit for the "Season Pass" type feature. I need to get up to date on the new antenna. Please post back when you get yours.

You weren't exaggerating about the boot up. Could have ordered and eaten a pizza (would have been better than what I had for supper

) while waiting on the software upgrade.

Thanks again.

Posted by: robricc

Re: HR10-250, HR20-700 or DishNetwork - 10/01/2007 12:51

Quote:
I need to get up to date on the new antenna. Please post back when you get yours.

I've had the 5-LNB dish since I got my first HR20. Mine is the AT9 model which was the first generation. There is now an AU9 model which is referred to as the "slimline." As you can see above, The AT9 is very large and significantly more heavy than the previous 2 and 3 LNB dishes. The mast is 2" OD now and two monopoles are required for wind stability.

The AU9 (slimline) has a similar setup, but the reflector is 30% smaller and the LNB assembly is one integrated piece.

Posted by: blitz

Re: HR10-250, HR20-700 or DishNetwork - 10/01/2007 13:49

That looks pretty monstrous. Do you have a multiswitch installed?

EDIT: I think the AU9 comes with a 4 port multiswitch built in.

Posted by: robricc

Re: HR10-250, HR20-700 or DishNetwork - 10/01/2007 13:58

I have a WB68 that DirecTV provided. This is the only multiswitch you can get for free if needed for this dish. I need more than 8 outputs in my house though. So, the WB68 has 4 outputs feeding my two HR20s and then the remaining 4 outputs are feeding my old Spaun 5x16 multiswitch. The Spaun then connects to all the other receivers in the house since they don't require signal from the two new LNBs.

Posted by: robricc

Re: HR10-250, HR20-700 or DishNetwork - 10/01/2007 14:21

Quote:
EDIT: I think the AU9 comes with a 4 port multiswitch built in.

Both come with a 4-port multiswitch, but this is only to combine all the signals from the different LNBs. The older oval dishes also had this type of setup. If you only need 4 outputs, there is no need for an external multiswitch.

Posted by: blitz

Re: HR10-250, HR20-700 or DishNetwork - 10/01/2007 14:29

Quote:
If you only need 4 outputs, there is no need for an external multiswitch.

That's what I thought. That's all I need for now. I do like that receiver though.

EDIT: What I'll do tonight is connect my slingbox to the thing and see how that works. Hopefully, it will give me a decent picture on the S-Video out.

Posted by: JBjorgen

Re: HR10-250, HR20-700 or DishNetwork - 10/01/2007 18:23

On a somewhat off-topic tangent, allow me to note that the Scientific Atlanta Explorer 8300HD DVR as provided by TimeWarner sucks hardcore compared to TiVo. Unfortunately, I can't justify the cost of a S3 for just a few months, so I'm going to have to use it.

Now back to your regularly scheduled programming...

Posted by: blitz

Re: HR10-250, HR20-700 or DishNetwork - 10/01/2007 18:34

Quote:
On a somewhat off-topic tangent, allow me to note that the Scientific American Explorer 8300HD DVR as provided by TimeWarner sucks hardcore compared to TiVo. Unfortunately, I can't justify the cost of a S3 for just a few months, so I'm going to have to use it.

Now back to your regularly scheduled programming...

Read this

Posted by: JBjorgen

Re: HR10-250, HR20-700 or DishNetwork - 10/01/2007 19:02

I agree with the rant wholeheartedly, but I've decided that I can no longer suffer watching crappy SD content on my nice HDTV. I must have HD recording capabilities, so out goes my beloved TiVo.

It's rather disturbing having no season pass manager though. I don't know if this thing has conflict resolution of any kind, and if it does, how to prioritize. I guess I'll find out the first time one of my favorite shows gets skipped. I think I'll try to find a manual since TW didn't bother to provide one.

EDIT: I found the manual, and yes...it's as sucky as I thought.

Posted by: blitz

Re: HR10-250, HR20-700 or DishNetwork - 11/01/2007 12:26

Rob,

What about the incredibly bright LEDs on the front? Anyway known to dim those or disable them?

EDIT: Found this tip.

Just hold the left and right arrows down at the same time on the front panel.
You can then lower the brightness to OFF

Posted by: blitz

Re: HR10-250, HR20-700 or DishNetwork - 14/01/2007 22:41

Quote:
The AU9 (slimline) has a similar setup, but the reflector is 30% smaller and the LNB assembly is one integrated piece.

I got the slimline dish installed. A lot bigger than the 3 LNB dish but manageable. We have a wooden chimney fascia so I just bolted through the wood. I might install a backup plate on the inside. Waiting on content now.

Posted by: SE_Sport_Driver

Re: HR10-250, HR20-700 or DishNetwork - 17/01/2007 19:10

If we could only transfer shows between units, I'd be sold. I use that feature on my DirecTivos daily. I could live without extraction to burn to DVD.

Posted by: robricc

Re: HR10-250, HR20-700 or DishNetwork - 17/01/2007 19:15

I agree that network show sharing is needed. There isn't even word out if that feature is coming. Streaming from a PC to the HR20 is coming though.

I have been using a Samsung DVD-R129 to record from the HR20. Making an anamorphic widescreen disc is a bit of a pain, but it works and looks great.

Posted by: Dignan

Re: HR10-250, HR20-700 or DishNetwork - 17/01/2007 19:20

Quote:
If we could only transfer shows between units, I'd be sold. I use that feature on my DirecTivos daily. I could live without extraction to burn to DVD.

I'm glad to hear it's so useful. You can do that with one of the FIOS boxes, and I'm looking forward to it.

So has anyone been affected by the Tivo season pass problem? I noticed it on mine and thought it was a fluke, but Engadget posted a story on it yesterday so it sounds like it's happening to a lot of people.

In case you're not familiar, basically I have a couple season passes that are simply not being recorded. I watch Pardon the Interruption on ESPN, and at one point the season pass thought that there were zero upcoming episodes (new or repeated), even though there are at least two a day, with one new a day. I deleted the pass and readded it, but it was still there. I went into the guide, and it was listed. I went into the To do list to see the recording history, and it says that the show wasn't recorded and gives a reason that goes something like "Someone in your household modified the season pass." It's very annoying, and basically undermines the entire purpose of a DVR.

*edit*
Here's the story.

Posted by: hybrid8

Re: HR10-250, HR20-700 or DishNetwork - 17/01/2007 21:17

At CES in 2005 DirecTV was promoting the concept of recording and playback on arbitrary receivers throughout the home. You could start watching a show downstairs and continue it upstairs. While either of those boxes was recording something else.

This was their initial preview of their own (NDS) boxes. They didn't have a concrete feature list of what would and would not make it into production hardware, but it's obviously something they cared enough about to promote, so it seems like it would eventually materialize. I don't think you could share shows like that with any TiVo model when they were showing this at CES.

Posted by: robricc

Re: HR10-250, HR20-700 or DishNetwork - 17/01/2007 21:20

If you didn't order FiOS yet, there is an offer for a $100 Amex card now.

Posted by: SE_Sport_Driver

Re: HR10-250, HR20-700 or DishNetwork - 17/01/2007 22:14

Quote:
At CES in 2005 DirecTV was promoting the concept of recording and playback on arbitrary receivers throughout the home. You could start watching a show downstairs and continue it upstairs. While either of those boxes was recording something else.

This was their initial preview of their own (NDS) boxes. They didn't have a concrete feature list of what would and would not make it into production hardware, but it's obviously something they cared enough about to promote, so it seems like it would eventually materialize. I don't think you could share shows like that with any TiVo model when they were showing this at CES.

I remember hearing that a few years back. IIRC, the concept was cool too. Basically, all of the signals came into a central box somewhere in your house that had like 8 tuners in it. The one box would handle all recording. Then, you can place boxes throughout the house to stream from the main box via ethernet or wireless. It'd make installs a lot cheaper because you'd only need one central location for all of the connections to the dish.

EDIT: What surprised me on the DBS forum is that nobody is asking for the feature of sharing shows.

Posted by: mlord

Re: HR10-250, HR20-700 or DishNetwork - 18/01/2007 02:38

This all sounds very much like a subset of MythTV.

Posted by: Dignan

Re: HR10-250, HR20-700 or DishNetwork - 18/01/2007 11:17

Quote:
If you didn't order FiOS yet, there is an offer for a $100 Amex card now.

Thanks for the tip. I wish I could take advantage of it. Hopefully it'll still be there in six months when I'm setting up home in my new place.

Posted by: JBjorgen

Re: HR10-250, HR20-700 or DishNetwork - 25/01/2007 18:58

Quote:
allow me to note that the Scientific Atlanta Explorer 8300HD DVR as provided by TimeWarner sucks hardcore compared to TiVo.

Screw it. I just got the Series 3 and transferred my lifetime service to it. Looks like I'll be able to sell it and get my money back out of it in a few months anyway. The S3's with lifetime are going for a pretty good premium on ebay at the moment. I won't get HD content till my CableCards come on monday, but at least I'll have it in time for the super bowl.

Posted by: wfaulk

Re: HR10-250, HR20-700 or DishNetwork - 25/01/2007 19:18

Wow. That bad, huh?

Posted by: Dignan

Re: HR10-250, HR20-700 or DishNetwork - 25/01/2007 19:39

I'm amazed that Time Warner is still in the cable business. I haven't heard anyone speak well of them.

I guess that's what you get when there's no competition between cable companies.

Posted by: JBjorgen

Re: HR10-250, HR20-700 or DishNetwork - 26/01/2007 10:24

In their defense, I'm sure they didn't write the software for that box. The blame most likely lies with Scientific Atlanta (Cisco.) It just got very frustrating to have absolutely no confidence that my season passes were going to record and record properly. For me, it's the one thing that a DVR must do and do well.

I'm likely going to be moving overseas in 9 months. In the end I realized that I could either give TimeWarner $200 over the next 9 months to rent their DVR, or shell out $800 ($600 for the box + $200 to transfer lifetime) and hopefully sell it for a profit in 9 months because of the rarity of lifetime service series 3's.

Posted by: blitz

Re: HR10-250, HR20-700 or DishNetwork - 26/01/2007 12:56

Rob,

If you connect the box via ethernet, is the telephone line still necessary?

Posted by: robricc

Re: HR10-250, HR20-700 or DishNetwork - 26/01/2007 13:53

The phone line is only necessary for PPV ordering with the remote control. You can leave the phone line unplugged if you want and the box won't annoy you about it.

Posted by: blitz

Re: HR10-250, HR20-700 or DishNetwork - 26/01/2007 14:39

Thanks. Why not have everything go through the ethernet? Maybe in the future.

Posted by: JBjorgen

Re: HR10-250, HR20-700 or DishNetwork - 26/01/2007 14:57

Actually, I will place blame on Time Warner for one thing...they could easily choose to run Activ Digital's Passport Echo software on exactly the same hardware. It looks a ton better. Conflict resolution, season pass manager, keyword wishlists and better user interface are all included. Seems like it'd be a no-brainer unless the licensing costs are exorbitant.

HR10-250, HR20-700 or DishNetwork