Typical Raise for IT?
Posted by: JeffS
Typical Raise for IT? - 06/01/2006 14:42
I just got my raise at my new job- I've only been here 4 months but they give out raises at the beginning of the year. So mine was prorated, which I completely understand. However, if I figure what it would have been for the year, I am less than impressed. Perhaps my expectations have been mistaken because of other places I've worked. So what is a reasonable expectation for a sr. software developer with a strong performance review?
Posted by: JBjorgen
Re: Typical Raise for IT? - 06/01/2006 16:14
I've been getting about 6% per annum, but I have no idea if that is reasonable or not. I should note that my salary is way below industry average to start with, but is slowly getting closer. I should also note that I am one of 2 developers in a very small company.
Posted by: drakino
Re: Typical Raise for IT? - 06/01/2006 19:50
Raises? What are those?
I'm not expecting anything this year, and got maybe a 1% raise last year. It's one big reason my motivation this past year at work disappeared, and why I am looking elsewhere.
Posted by: mlord
Re: Typical Raise for IT? - 06/01/2006 20:11
It's not a raise (nor a lower) that matters, but rather the actual salary value.
If it's already high, then expect 0%; if it's low, expect a big increase.
In between a more modest increase.
Cheers
Posted by: tman
Re: Typical Raise for IT? - 06/01/2006 20:13
Is not getting a raise at all common? Not even one that keeps in line with inflation?
Posted by: andym
Re: Typical Raise for IT? - 06/01/2006 20:32
I've only worked for 3 employers, but an annual inflation related rise has always happened. Other than that I've had a 500 quid 'bonus' one year at the beeb, nothing at Siemens (although they do seem to be seriously in the shit financially at the moment), let's hope my new employer breaks the mould.
Posted by: mcomb
Re: Typical Raise for IT? - 06/01/2006 20:42
Quote:
So what is a reasonable expectation for a sr. software developer with a strong performance review?
In the last six years I've been at one small dotcom and gone from being a sysadmin type who did a bit of programming to the lead engineer for our small development team. Over those 6 years I've averaged a bit over 10% raise per year. But it hasn't been consistent, a couple years had no raise and one of the dotcom crash years resulted in a 10% salary reduction. Obviously, the other three years saw pretty healthy salary increases.
-Mike
Posted by: mlord
Re: Typical Raise for IT? - 06/01/2006 20:47
Again, the %%% increase numbers mean nothing. The actual salary amount is the only meaningful number here.
Think: get paid $150K/year with 0% increase, or go for the 20% annual increase on a $80K/year salary ??? I know which one I would have always favoured!
Posted by: andym
Re: Typical Raise for IT? - 06/01/2006 20:52
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Think: get paid $150K/year with 0% increase, or go for the 20% annual increase on a $80K/year salary ??? I know which one I would have always favoured!
Hmm, he makes a good point!
Posted by: mcomb
Re: Typical Raise for IT? - 06/01/2006 21:08
Quote:
Hmm, he makes a good point!
That he does, but I for one wasn't particularly interested in posting exactly how much I earn. If you assume I make an average salary for someone in my position as does Jeff (and that our positions are similar enough to be worth comparing) then the percentages do have some meaning.
-Mike
Posted by: andym
Re: Typical Raise for IT? - 06/01/2006 21:14
That's part of the problem, people seem to get paid vastly different sums for doing very similar jobs. It is difficult gauge wether a 5% pay rise is any good if you don't know whether the person in question is earning 30k or 60k.
Posted by: Dignan
Re: Typical Raise for IT? - 06/01/2006 21:33
I think I got a $600 raise this year. Ah, non-profit. Well, at least that takes care of a car insurance payment.
Posted by: lectric
Re: Typical Raise for IT? - 07/01/2006 06:33
For the past 10 years, I've recieved at least 4% a year. However, I do work for the government, so keep in mind my salary is NOT what it would be in the private sector. I have, however, gotten a 10% performance raise in those 10 years, so I am making about double what I started at.
Posted by: frog51
Re: Typical Raise for IT? - 07/01/2006 08:42
I have worked for the same professional services firm for the last four and a half years, and our promotions/raises etc happen in October. My raises have been 21%, 1%, 13% and 5% - plus the technical staff had an extra 5% last year as we were fighting RBS for new hires and had to do something to attract new grads etc. We still have headcount requirements in the UK for technical/infosec folks, in case anyone is interested - PM me and I can discuss the roles
If all goes well I am hoping for a promotion in October with a payrise of about £20k, if not, then I might get an extra couple of grand.
Posted by: JeffS
Re: Typical Raise for IT? - 07/01/2006 10:53
Quote:
Think: get paid $150K/year with 0% increase, or go for the 20% annual increase on a $80K/year salary ???
Point taken- I'm not making 150K/year if that helps 
For me it really isn't so much about the money (of course, money is why I ultimately go to work), but about feeling valued. Part of all of this is that I'm new to the company, but I'd rather have had no raise at all than what they gave me (1%), just because it feels like a slap in the face ("here, have an extra $20 per paycheck on us"). But I have to remember that I've only been here a few months and they don't really know what value I bring to the company. This all comes on the heals of a performance review in which I mostly "exceeded expectations", but apparently that doesn't mean much since I'm so new and thus expectations were low (I had no real objectives to meet). My main concern is that apparently a typical raise at this company is around 3%-4%, and that's a lot lower than what I've experienced in the past. Sounds like it isn't really out of line for the industry, though. Just not what I've experienced.
Posted by: andym
Re: Typical Raise for IT? - 07/01/2006 11:10
The 500 pound bonus felt like a kick in the trousers especially after I spent a year busting my balls. After that I thought fuck it, I might as well just do the minimum as it makes no difference. Bit of an Office Space moment.... The proof of the pudding will be this summer, considering the time I've spent making sure the transition to our new building is as smooth as possible I'm going to be really pissed off if I don't see a significant increase.
Posted by: peter
Re: Typical Raise for IT? - 07/01/2006 13:31
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So what is a reasonable expectation for a sr. software developer with a strong performance review?
If your manager understands how to build and maintain strong, committed teams of developers, and if the overall compensation scheme (which of course your manager is probably as much a victim of as you are) allows for it, then lots -- especially if you've just started a new job and surprised them by how good you are at it.
Elsewhere, i.e. in the real world, however, the company will pay you the smallest amount they think won't cause an on-the-spot resignation: no other strategy is cost-optimal for them in the short term. Don't blame your own manager for this: his or her hands are likely to be tied unless your company is so small that your own manager was the one who came up with the compensation scheme in the first place.
Peter
Posted by: lectric
Re: Typical Raise for IT? - 07/01/2006 16:55
Could be worse. I once had a job where your salaray was based partly upon how much you "needed" the money. In other words, married people made more, and people with kids made even more. Just to prove the point, after one of the developers had a kid, he got a signifigant raise. Niiiice.
Posted by: tman
Re: Typical Raise for IT? - 07/01/2006 17:11
Quote:
Could be worse. I once had a job where your salaray was based partly upon how much you "needed" the money. In other words, married people made more, and people with kids made even more. Just to prove the point, after one of the developers had a kid, he got a signifigant raise. Niiiice.
By any chance did the person that came up with that scheme have loads of kids?
Posted by: JeffS
Re: Typical Raise for IT? - 07/01/2006 19:16
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I once had a job where your salaray was based partly upon how much you "needed" the money.
Ever read "Atlas Shrugged"? Ayn Rand would be proud . . .
Posted by: andym
Re: Typical Raise for IT? - 07/01/2006 19:28
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Could be worse. I once had a job where your salaray was based partly upon how much you "needed" the money.
Is that not discrimination against people who are single by choice, or terminally repulsive? Also what if you got divorced or had your family die in an accident? So as well as the pain of losing your nearest and dearest you'd also get a pay cut. I can't believe a company could base it salary and remuneration scheme around that.
Posted by: tman
Re: Typical Raise for IT? - 07/01/2006 19:35
How about every year just before you get a pay rise you go and borrow a friend's family for a month or so?
Posted by: andym
Re: Typical Raise for IT? - 07/01/2006 19:40
Or take your girlfriend to the xmas do every year with a pillow up her top.
Posted by: genixia
Re: Typical Raise for IT? - 07/01/2006 19:53
Quote:
Could be worse. I once had a job where your salaray was based partly upon how much you "needed" the money. In other words, married people made more, and people with kids made even more. Just to prove the point, after one of the developers had a kid, he got a signifigant raise. Niiiice.
Just to play Devil's advocate... What do you consider to be so wrong about this?
Posted by: lectric
Re: Typical Raise for IT? - 07/01/2006 19:54
Tell me... He has two kids, and it was a very small company. The trick was, I think he figured he would pay you the least amount he could to make you comfortable. Just enough to keep you from leaving.
Another story, same company:
When I was hired on, I accepted a low salary based on the fact that I was to get a 10% raise fter my 6 mos. probation was over. At that time I was also to be eligible for the profit sharing program. At the end of six months, They cut me a check for profit sharing. Two days later the boss came to me and said "We didn't mean to include you in the profit sharing, but we'll give you a choice. Take the check now, and defer the raise for another 6 mos., or take the raise and give back the check"
Well, I needed the immediate money, and I did the math and the numbers were almost identical, so I took the check. After 6 more months, we were in a staff meeting and he said "Well, the company is doing well, so everybody gets a 5% raise." Now, to me, I should be getting a 16% raise. 10% and then 5% on top of that. Nope, I only got the promised 10%. When I asked him about it later, the response was "Come on Mason, you're already making out like a bandit" At that point, I started looking for another job.
Posted by: lectric
Re: Typical Raise for IT? - 07/01/2006 19:56
Obviously, you SHOULD be paid what you're worth, not what you need. He blithely ignored what people were worth and also ignored who was making more money for the company. Lovely.
Posted by: tman
Re: Typical Raise for IT? - 07/01/2006 19:59
Quote:
Just to play Devil's advocate... What do you consider to be so wrong about this?
Because it isn't related to how well you do your job at all? You could be crap and just do enough to get by and earn way more than somebody at the same level who works like crazy but doesn't have a family. Okay, real life isn't fair. You'll get plenty of things like this anyway but thats my opinion of this isolated situation.
Posted by: FireFox31
Re: Typical Raise for IT? - 07/01/2006 21:54
Interesting thread. Clearly I'm not the only one who's received only an inflation-covering raise for the last four years. But I seem in the minority since I didn't leave their job because of it.
Perhaps as my salary stagnated compared to my friends, so has my feeling of self worth and my motivation to improve. Yet, I've got no lack of guilt for my (unintentional and medical?) poor performance.
Posted by: JeffS
Re: Typical Raise for IT? - 07/01/2006 22:12
Quote:
Just to play Devil's advocate... What do you consider to be so wrong about this?
I don't think it's ethically wrong, but it isn't a wise financial decision in a free market economy. If you don't base your compensation on performance, then your employees will go where they can get the money their work is worth. Paying based on needs results in people competeing to demonstrate the greatest need, rather than doing the best work. Doing so says you value meeting human needs more than the contributions of your employees. While this might be moral and decent, it doesn't jive with how our economic system operates- corporate businesses aren't for meeting human needs, they are for creating products and services relying on the output of their employees. Therefore, the smart company needs to maximize and reward this output.
There can be elements of meeting needs though. My employer gave everyone in the Atlanta office an extra $50 a month for the last three months because of the high gas prices here. I don't think that disenfranchised anyone (including those in other offices) but definitely showed that the company values its employees and considers their needs.
Posted by: lectric
Re: Typical Raise for IT? - 08/01/2006 00:36
Heh, to make it worse, he used to be an economics professor. Hehe.
Posted by: genixia
Re: Typical Raise for IT? - 08/01/2006 05:22
Quote:
Quote:
Just to play Devil's advocate... What do you consider to be so wrong about this?
Because it isn't related to how well you do your job at all? You could be crap and just do enough to get by and earn way more than somebody at the same level who works like crazy but doesn't have a family. Okay, real life isn't fair. You'll get plenty of things like this anyway but thats my opinion of this isolated situation.
The original example was that the raise was based partially on need, not totally. I didn't read that performance was completely discounted. In the big scheme of things, why should someone who works like crazy be rewarded if they're still crap?
And another thing .... most people have 'job offers' (no such thing as a contract really anymore) that carry the expectation of somewhere between 35 to 40 hours a week of work. Yet I have had a past boss say to his team that he expected a minimum of 50 hours a week and that he considered less than that to be 'slacking'. I've spent way too much of the past year working 50, 60, 70 hour weeks to try to meet unrealistic deadlines, and the sad thing is that still I've had moments where I've felt guilty about leaving work before someone else on the team. Why is that? It's not _my_ fault that someone on the team is a single workaholic. This is exacerbated by the fact that workaholics are often rewarded with responsibility as well as recompense because most companies tie salary to position. The problem is that they often have interpersonal issues, like poor communication skills, or the inability to delegate anything except the simplest of tasks. So you end up with the scenario where a whole team is waiting around for their team workaholic to delegate tasks or communicate information necessary to complete a team goal, and the end result is that what could take a well-functioning team 40 hours to complete ends up taking 60. Does the single workaholic care?
Anyway, I realise that I've gone off on a slight tangent.
The reality is that even in a competitive-salary situation, needs-based salaries still exist to an extent. If I earn X dollars and have a given standard of living, then if my needs suddenly changed because, eg., my wife gave birth to a child then I'd still want to maintain that standard of living wherever possible. Of course at my next review, after pointing out what a great job I had done, I'd remind the boss that I had new financial obligations that I'd have to meet. Obviously I wouldn't demand a pay raise based on needs, but a good boss should recognise that people are going to want to maintain their standard of living, and that in a good economy and in the private IT sector, changing jobs isn't difficult and is often an easy path to a good raise.
Posted by: lectric
Re: Typical Raise for IT? - 08/01/2006 07:50
Shouldn't your standard of living be tied to the coices you make? The fact that you had a baby was a decision you made, knowing full well that it could affect your standard of living. If you choose to blow a grand a week at the track, you don't get to have nice things. No one cares if you have a gambling problem. You just spent your money on something, it doesn't entitle you to earn more so you can afford the same kind of car as everyone else at your office.
I look at it this way, a company only has so much money for payroll expenses. If someone gets a raise because they have a kid, it DOES affect me because there is less headroom for ME to get a raise.
Posted by: bonzi
Re: Typical Raise for IT? - 08/01/2006 08:25
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Quote:
I once had a job where your salaray was based partly upon how much you "needed" the money.
Ever read "Atlas Shrugged"? Ayn Rand would be proud . . .
Stange, I would think this would be a commie, not right-anarchist approach... Not even I (although being a commie, more or less) have that approach in my tiny company. 
That said, bright young people without family obligations are likely to work for relatively substandard pay (for a while) if the work environment is interesting enough.
Posted by: bonzi
Re: Typical Raise for IT? - 08/01/2006 08:49
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And another thing .... most people have 'job offers' (no such thing as a contract really anymore) that carry the expectation of somewhere between 35 to 40 hours a week of work. Yet I have had a past boss say to his team that he expected a minimum of 50 hours a week and that he considered less than that to be 'slacking'.
Indeed. I occasionally work with a couple of small US SW companies, and it seems that 50-60 hour weeks and 5 day a year vacations is more or less a norm.
Quote:
I've spent way too much of the past year working 50, 60, 70 hour weeks to try to meet unrealistic deadlines, and the sad thing is that still I've had moments where I've felt guilty about leaving work before someone else on the team. Why is that? It's not _my_ fault that someone on the team is a single workaholic. This is exacerbated by the fact that workaholics are often rewarded with responsibility as well as recompense because most companies tie salary to position. The problem is that they often have interpersonal issues, like poor communication skills, or the inability to delegate anything except the simplest of tasks. So you end up with the scenario where a whole team is waiting around for their team workaholic to delegate tasks or communicate information necessary to complete a team goal, and the end result is that what could take a well-functioning team 40 hours to complete ends up taking 60. Does the single workaholic care?
Agreed. I think that there should be a mechanism to reward the performance regardless of position, that promotions to managerial positions should be based on relevant (organizational, communication) qualities, and that compensations should rise only modestly with hierarchical "rungs". Otherwise, we end up with incompetent managers who could have been much more useful as good engineers. And, of course, amount of time spent on work is only weakly related to performance: while dedication should be rewarded, what makes work done is efficiency.
Posted by: lectric
Re: Typical Raise for IT? - 08/01/2006 16:49
Oof.... 5 days? I just got bumped up to 19 days. After 5 more years, 25 days. The way it works is years 1-5, 1 day a month, years 6-10, 1.5 days per month, 10+ years gets you 2 days a month. And the whole time you also get your birthday off. Plus 12 sick days, plus comp time, plus 12 paid holidays.
Working for the government DOES have its advantages.
Oh yeah, 7 hour workday. Those are the reasons I don't get paid as much as others and I don't care. Not to mention I'm on a wage, while my boss is on salary. Since 35 hour work weeks are really not realistic most of the time, I do get overtime, and as such, I end up making more than her. Wheee.
Posted by: julf
Re: Typical Raise for IT? - 08/01/2006 18:23
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Stange, I would think this would be a commie, not right-anarchist approach...
Just confirms what I always suspected - I *am* a right-anarchist commie
Posted by: tman
Re: Typical Raise for IT? - 08/01/2006 18:37
It is a minimum of 4x the number of days you work in a week here by law. If you do Mon-Fri then you get 20 days a year paid holiday.
+ 12 public holidays
Posted by: JeffS
Re: Typical Raise for IT? - 08/01/2006 19:36
Quote:
Stange, I would think this would be a commie, not right-anarchist approach...
Sorry, I meant this quite sarcastically. The events of Atlas Shrugged are started in motion by a company which decides to compensate people based on needs rather than production.
Edit- I am also not a fan of Rand- I just thought the example was similar to the events in the book.
Posted by: bonzi
Re: Typical Raise for IT? - 08/01/2006 19:36
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Just confirms what I always suspected - I *am* a right-anarchist commie
That's the best kind
Posted by: JeffS
Re: Typical Raise for IT? - 08/01/2006 19:41
I almost never work more than 40 hours a week. I'll do OT for production support in critical instances, but not with any sort of regularity. Or to meed a reasonably set deadline that ended up being just a little too short. But I will not work OT to meet an agressive deadline- to me that's just mismanagement. My work is much poorer when I start working OT (except, of course, when you're on a roll and elect to work extra hours because you just don't feel like stopping), so I figure I do everyone a favor by keeping myself to 40 hours. Some see that as a poor work ethic. I see it as a good, human, life balancing ethic.
Posted by: drakino
Re: Typical Raise for IT? - 08/01/2006 19:44
Well, even if I do get a raise this year for performance, I think it's going to be overshadowed by the 6% pay cut effective in Febuary. Seems the company is trying to find every corner to cut and they just announced cuts to the shift differencials for after hours support. Some are losing upwards of 11-12% due to it.
Posted by: bonzi
Re: Typical Raise for IT? - 08/01/2006 19:51
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[...] working OT to meet an agressive deadline- to me that's just mismanagement.
I agree. Overtime should never be factored in when calculating schedules. Overoptimistic deadlines will sneak in anyway - better to keep a bit of margin.
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Some see that as a poor work ethic. I see it as a good, human, life balancing ethic.
Again, agreed. People work to live, not other way around. There are families, toys, OSS projects... If interesting, challenging and rewarding work pull them here and there into a 16 hour day or an all-nighter, all the better, but employer must not count on that.
Posted by: Anonymous
Re: Typical Raise for IT? - 08/01/2006 20:59
I once got a 26% raise after only three months on the job. I went straight from $5.15/hour to $6.50. My boss said I was one of the best shelf stockers he's ever seen. I was even making more than Chuck, who had been there for over six months.
Posted by: msaeger
Re: Typical Raise for IT? - 08/01/2006 22:11
Posted by: Waterman981
Re: Typical Raise for IT? - 08/01/2006 22:44
Quote:
I once got a 26% raise after only three months on the job. I went straight from $5.15/hour to $6.50. My boss said I was one of the best shelf stockers he's ever seen. I was even making more than Chuck, who had been there for over six months.
I once got almost a 19% raise for doing the same thing. The problem is there is nowhere to go after maxing out at $12.50 after 6 years... 
Posted by: frog51
Re: Typical Raise for IT? - 09/01/2006 07:52
I think the least I have worked over the last 5 years is 40 hours, and the most is 110 (but that was when overtime pay made it worthwhile!) but the benefits include so many holidays I end up selling three or four back each year.
In my firm there is not an expectation of high hours, in fact many folks work 37 - 45 quite happily, but if you do bring in results, you will progress faster. Same as most places I expect.
Posted by: tman
Re: Typical Raise for IT? - 09/01/2006 08:05
Quote:
the most is 110 (but that was when overtime pay made it worthwhile!)
110?! Did you live in the office or something?
Posted by: frog51
Re: Typical Raise for IT? - 09/01/2006 11:47
Well, I got to know the local Dominos delivery team very well!
Was on 24 hour support for a large bank - and I was the support team... so when they had issues, I was it.
They needed such handholding - they called me once when I was on holiday, and although I diagnosed the problem, gave the fix, and identified the network team for the job, they 'needed' me.
So I said that was fine, if they'd pay the entire cost of the holiday. Quick discussion and £2k came my way, so I travelled back, spent 18 minutes fixing the issue (diagnosis 100% accurate) and went away again. Good ways to make money
Posted by: canuckInOR
Re: Typical Raise for IT? - 11/01/2006 03:43
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Quote:
the most is 110 (but that was when overtime pay made it worthwhile!)
110?! Did you live in the office or something?
The one time that I worked hours like that, I did. Took a little backpack to work with some spare clothes, and my toiletries. Slept upstairs on a pullout cot. The day after I finished that, and went home to sleep for a few days, the place got broken into, through the room that I'd been sleeping in.
In the last 4 years, I don't think I've never worked more than a 60 hour week (during crunch time), with most weeks being on the order of 40-45. I do overtime only because I'm in the middle of something, and don't want to lose my train of thought. A lot of times, I'll just skip out of work early on Friday to make the weekly numbers work out to 40.
Vacation is currently sitting at 4 weeks. 11 more months, and I get a 2 month paid sabbatical, plus one more week vacation/year to mark the end of my fifth year. Plus 10 public holidays -- I miss the extra holidays we had in Canada, but my vacation time sure makes up for it. If I were to go into production, I could up my vacation time by 6 weeks/year, but then I have to work nutso schedules most of the rest of the time. 
(Oh, and to answer the thread's original question, my last raise was roughly 6%, but I've had as much as 0% in the past.)
Posted by: lectric
Re: Typical Raise for IT? - 11/01/2006 04:44
I can beat that. The week following Aug 29th, I pulled 168 hours. The week after that was about 130. Of course, I got paid to sleep, what precious little time I had to. At least I got a healthy paycheck for it, as anything over 40 was 1.5 time, and since city hall was closed I got regular time for that too. So I got paid for 287 hours of work in one week. Nice. That's two month's pay in 1 week. Not that that came close to making up for losing everything in my house, but I'm better off than a LOT of people, that couldn't work at all.
Sorry to bring that up. I know ya'll are sick of hearing about N.O.