Bloody Supras!

Posted by: rob

Bloody Supras! - 30/12/2003 08:07

I have carried on the tradition of blowing up Supras at Christmas (this is the third), after all what Christmas day would be complete without sitting on the hard shoulder of the M5? The latest one isn't as immediately fatal as previous ones. I suspect it has had a cracked block since I bought it, as Rob S and Patrick helped me flush out about 2KG of crap that looks very much like polymer block repairer. Since we did that it now drinks water at an alarming rate, blows exhaust gasses out of the filler cap, and dissolves radiators in about three months. This is annoying considering I spent 1500 quid having the engine rebuilt after the exhaust camshaft snapped last Christmas day. You'd have thought the garage would have noticed!

So, while I love everythihg about my Supra except the reliability, I think it is time to stop throwing cash at this cursed marque. Any ideas for cheap big fun cars that don't tend to blow up every few months? I quite fancy an XJS as my last Jag (Mk.3 Sovereign) was the only completely reliable car I've ever owned. A 300ZX is another idea (never driven one though).

Suggestions?

Rob
Posted by: robricc

Re: Bloody Supras! - 30/12/2003 08:40

Drop in on these guys and ask them what you should buy.

I picked up a Subaru SVX a couple weeks ago. That car is pretty excellent too.
Posted by: Redrum

Re: Bloody Supras! - 30/12/2003 08:56

Probably just a blown head gasket or at worst cracked head. The people that worked on it before probably didn't clean the head good or torque it down correctly.

However if you can't do the work and have to depend on ripoff mechanics a new car may be the answer.
Posted by: _hardcore_

Re: Bloody Supras! - 30/12/2003 09:33

Go for the Jag. About the only car left on the planet with a history. I'd go for a XK8 or perhaps a mint E-type.

BMW Z3 Coupe could be a chioce also ?

\\Kaare
Posted by: larry818

Re: Bloody Supras! - 30/12/2003 10:01

Definitely get the Jag! My last car was a Mk.3 XJ6 which I sold five years ago. I miss it still. The XJS convert is quite a beautiful car and the last of the 'real jags'. I'd consider buying one if it weren't for the two babies I now have instead...
Posted by: g_attrill

Re: Bloody Supras! - 30/12/2003 10:32

Is this a Mk3 or 4? A friend has had a few Mk3's and they are legendary for blowing head gaskets. He shopped for one a couple of years back (at the cheaper end of the market) and most showed signs of imminent damage or past repairs!

How about the 350Z?

Gareth
Posted by: webroach

Re: Bloody Supras! - 30/12/2003 12:35

You should pick up a spiff Mitsubishi FTO and frustrate all of us in the US who aren't allowed to have one.

Posted by: andym

Re: Bloody Supras! - 30/12/2003 12:43

Why can't you have the FTO? emissions?
Posted by: andym

Re: Bloody Supras! - 30/12/2003 12:47

Drop in on these guys and ask them what you should buy.

I have to say it's very rare to see a Saab driver who isn't pushing 40 around here. I'm sure they're fun, but they look rather conservative.
Posted by: robricc

Re: Bloody Supras! - 30/12/2003 13:09

That's true in the US also. However, at club events and such is where you see many younger people.
I'm sure they're fun, but they look rather conservative.
That's the best part about it. Blowing ricers away in your 300HP 95 station wagon.
Posted by: webroach

Re: Bloody Supras! - 30/12/2003 13:10

Why can't you have the FTO? emissions?

No, it's our whiny little governme..

Oh, errr....ya. Sort of. More political. Emissions are more strict in Japan than here, actually.

I looked into importing one a while ago. Whee. I would have had to....

1) Buy at least one FTO and have it shipped here from Japan, to a registered importer. ~$6500
2) Have the car crashed (ie. crash test) ~$8000
3) If it passes the crash test, do another one (same EXACT year/model/etc.) just to be sure. ~$14500
4) Assuming all goes well, get another car (same EXACT year/model/etc.) and have the registered importer "engineer" corrections to the horribly naughty and unsafe japanese sports car (such as putting american tire pressure labels on it and whatnot) ~$11500
5) Once this is all done, pay the government for the right to ask if you can please keep your car in the country. ~$800
6) Wait six months to have them say "No, buy a nice GMC and help to bolster Mexico's economy you traitorous pig" and destroy your evil evil import car.

Total price to get the car: ~$41,300

All for a car I can buy in Nagoya for $5500.
Posted by: andym

Re: Bloody Supras! - 30/12/2003 13:51

What a load of crap. I think if that was the case in the UK you'd see far less Imprezas. At least I think it's not as bad in the UK.
Posted by: DWallach

Re: Bloody Supras! - 30/12/2003 15:00

So you want a reliable car, sporty (2-door?), but with at least an excuse for a back seat, and you're looking to buy something used to save some cash. I'd tend to stick with Japanese products, but then people here have heard plenty of me griping about the lack of reliability on my BMW.

A Nissan 300ZX (especially the twin turbo) would make for a fine car, although the question is how hard the former owner trashed it. A late model 240SX might also be attractive, as would a late-model Honda Prelude or Acura Integra GS-R or Type-R. I'm less sure about the Mitsubishi 3000GT's reliability, but it was certainly a monster of a car, contemporaneous with your departed Supras.

Of course, you can get all kinds of funny cars we never see here in the U.S. I have no idea how reliable the French or Italian cars can be, but some of them look pretty cool from a distance.
Posted by: g_attrill

Re: Bloody Supras! - 30/12/2003 15:23

At least I think it's not as bad in the UK.

Not yet.... currently if it's RHD and newer than 02(ish) you need a shedload of evidence and testing (not crash testing though) which costs 000s, but it only needs to be done once and you can "rent" the evidence by paying whoever did it.

If it's LHD you just need the SVA which is a visual inspection of construction methods and an MOT.

If it's over 10 years old you just need an MOT (piece of cake if you go to the right place )

Gareth
Posted by: Jerz

Re: Bloody Supras! - 30/12/2003 15:24

A 300ZX is another idea (never driven one though).

I haven't driven one either but my wife has a 1995 infinity J30 that she has had since 1995, it has over 130k miles and still runs like it's brand new! It's got the V6 which if I'm not mistaken is the same engine that they put in the 300ZX. I don't believe you can go wrong with Nissan/Infiniti.

Cheers!
Posted by: rob

Re: Bloody Supras! - 30/12/2003 20:10

Is this a Mk3 or 4? A friend has had a few Mk3's and they are legendary for blowing head gaskets

Yeah tell me about it

This particular Mk.3 snapped a cam shaft (!) a year ago, so I took the opportunity to swap the head for the one from my previous Supra which had a BHG. Of course the head was skimmed and rebuilt first. I had hoped to get more than a year out of a HG and in fact I suspect the problem is actually a cracked block. There is no water in the oil, the engine runs beautifully and at normal power, the only problem is overheating (seemingly due to coolant getting pressurised and forced out the header tank).

It could be a HG between a water channel and a cylinder I guess, but I believe this problem pre-dated my owning the car due to the presence of a HUGE amount of radweld or block repair compound in the cooling system. It is since I flushed out this compound that the problem has become really bad (I could only get about 20 miles to a gallon of coolant on my last trip, unless I drove in a thoroughly boring manner in which case it would stretch to about 80 miles).

For now I've chucked in some evil block repair compound but it doesn't seem to have helped much.

Rob
Posted by: Redrum

Re: Bloody Supras! - 31/12/2003 07:16

I’d bet you big money it is not the block. The only way to get combustion chamber pressure into the water is from the combustion camber and the only part of the block involved in that process is the cylinder. Cracked cylinder sleeves just don’t happen unless your piston goes and a rod shoves through the side of the cylinder. You wouldn’t be driving anywhere then. Since you are not getting water in the oil (yet) the motor is probably undamaged (unless you let it overheat constantly).

You’re probably seeing radiator repair goo or maybe the prior owner never flushed the radiator. Also water sediments can really look nasty. I imagine exposing cylinder gasses to antifreeze would probably goo up things too.

Sounds like you want a new car but you might get you old one fixed before you sell it, you’d get more money that way. I’d offer to buy your old one but am about 5k miles away. It would also be a wet drive.
Posted by: Redrum

Re: Bloody Supras! - 31/12/2003 07:27

One more thing. No way "evil block repair compound " will stop or even slow down a combustion chamber leak. It might stop a leak from water to oil but the thousands of lbs. of pressure in the combustion chamber is no match for some goo.

Plus combustion chamber gasses are pushing out, not pulling the goo into the leak.

You’re just going to plug your radiator up and over heat faster.
Posted by: julf

Re: Bloody Supras! - 31/12/2003 09:14

Go for the Jag. About the only car left on the planet with a history
Hmm.. May I disagree? As an owner of a Bristol and several historical Land Rovers, and with a Morgan on order, I feel I have to make some protesting sounds...
Posted by: peter

Re: Bloody Supras! - 31/12/2003 09:26

I quite fancy an XJS as my last Jag (Mk.3 Sovereign) was the only completely reliable car I've ever owned.
Oooh, XJS convertibles are nice. And that's if you don't heed Hardcore's suggestion of an E-type. An E-type convertible, if it's in good nick, is well more of a chick magnet than any of Hugo's daft cars.

Peter
Posted by: mlord

Re: Bloody Supras! - 31/12/2003 09:28

Hugo doesn't need a chick magnet...
Posted by: peter

Re: Bloody Supras! - 31/12/2003 09:47

Hugo doesn't need a chick magnet...
Well, neither does Rob. But that doesn't mean he shouldn't get one...

Peter
Posted by: _hardcore_

Re: Bloody Supras! - 01/01/2004 16:27

>Hmm.. May I disagree? As an owner of a Bristol and several historical Land >Rovers, and with a Morgan on order, I feel I have to make some protesting >sounds...

Heh, tought i would get in trouble for posting that one - erm, what i meant is that jaguar is still producing sportcars like they've done for decades, land rover and others have moved away from the prior focus... I've owned and still own a Range Rover (2 door '87) - i've testdrived the new RR and there nothing left of the old Land rover feel. Now it's all luxury car that i would't take off the road.

Hadn't the Jaguar costed what they cost in Denmark, it would probably be my choice for my next car. Now it seems that i'm stuck with my current Volvo

\\Kaare
Posted by: _hardcore_

Re: Bloody Supras! - 01/01/2004 16:31

>Oooh, XJS convertibles are nice. And that's if you don't heed Hardcore's >suggestion of an E-type. An E-type convertible, if it's in good nick, is well more of >a chick magnet than any of Hugo's daft cars.

The E-type is in my oppinion the hottest car still. I've been looking for a late series 1 4.2 liter for a long time now, for the right price - they're hard to come by, atleast in the condition that i want, matched with the price that i'm ready to give. Perhaps some day ?

\\Kaare
Posted by: julf

Re: Bloody Supras! - 02/01/2004 08:27

erm, what i meant is that jaguar is still producing sportcars like they've done for decades
But they have also started to produce family cars and repmobiles. Don't get me wrong, I love the sporty Jags (altough I do prefer the SS100 and the 120/140's to an E-type), but...
land rover and others have moved away from the prior focus...
Well, as long as they still produce the Defender, I don't see how the luxyry RR and the freelander (urgh!) is any diferent from what Jag is doing to make money for Ford. And both Jag and Land Rover are Fords anyway

But, Land Rover aside, there are stil real classic british non-Ford sports cars being made. You can buy both a new Morgan and a new Bristol today. Delivery might take a couple of months...
Posted by: g_attrill

Re: Bloody Supras! - 02/01/2004 10:15

There's a neat looking "Baby Range Rover" called the "Range Stormer" launching soon. The standard engine is the 400bhp 4.2 V8 from the XKR and a price of £40,000.

http://www.carpages.co.uk/land_rover/land_rover_range_stormer_concept_02_01_04.asp

http://www.rangestormer.com/ (nothing here yet)

Gareth
Posted by: rob

Re: Bloody Supras! - 02/01/2004 10:17

An E Type would be nice, but they seem to start around £20K in fair condition. I could get an NSX for that

Rob
Posted by: wfaulk

Re: Bloody Supras! - 02/01/2004 10:28

jaguar is still producing sportcars like they've done for decades
I disagree. Their only current models that I could consider sports cars are the XK8 and the XKR. While both are powerful cars, and probably fun to drive, neither is available with a manual transmission, which I'd say is a requirement for a sports car. In fact, the only current model available with a manual transmission is the X-Type, which is basically just a rebranded Ford.
Posted by: _hardcore_

Re: Bloody Supras! - 02/01/2004 16:17

>But they have also started to produce family cars and repmobiles. Don't get me >wrong, I love the sporty Jags (altough I do prefer the SS100 and the 120/140's to >an E-type), but...

A racing green late mark I e-type with the original webasto sunroof and the 4.2 liter engine. oh man..
Somehow i feel that Jaguar and bmw are true to their past. I admire that jaguar hasn't produced a SUV yet, like i admire that bmw hasn't produced a van like the vw touran. I would be an easy market for them.

>Well, as long as they still produce the Defender, I don't see how the luxyry RR >and the freelander (urgh!) is any diferent from what Jag is doing to make money >for Ford. And both Jag and Land Rover are Fords anyway

I see your point. Yet i still feel that the Range rover is moving far away from the offspring, but you could argue that the new freelander has taken its place.

>But, Land Rover aside, there are stil real classic british non-Ford sports cars >being made. You can buy both a new Morgan and a new Bristol today. Delivery >might take a couple of months...

Not to forget Caterham. Unfortunately most of the british special makes are unavailable in Denmark because of our import and car tax rules.

\\Kaare
Posted by: _hardcore_

Re: Bloody Supras! - 02/01/2004 16:21

>I disagree. Their only current models that I could consider sports cars are the >XK8 and the XKR. While both are powerful cars, and probably fun to drive, >neither is available with a manual transmission, which I'd say is a requirement for >a sports car. In fact, the only current model available with a manual >transmissioni>s the X-Type, which is basically just a rebranded Ford.

The S-type is to me very true to the Jaguar brand. Top of the line car, with a sportscar performance, and roadholding. X-type also, it drives the socks any Ford, at least them i've tried sofar. Even though they're are sharing the chassis, i think Jaguar has added the jag feel and performance thats reguired to have that jag sign on the back of the car.

\\Kaare

Posted by: _hardcore_

Re: Bloody Supras! - 02/01/2004 16:24

>An E Type would be nice, but they seem to start around £20K in fair condition. I >could get an NSX for that

Heh, you know what - in Denmark i can't ven get a brand new Ford Mondeo 2.0 w/o aircon for that amount. Sickening isn't it ? At most it would buy me a Peugeot 206 1.6 liter, or perhaps a bloody Toyota Corolla..

Oh well. At least the healtcare is good here.

\\Kaare
Posted by: julf

Re: Bloody Supras! - 03/01/2004 05:35

Unfortunately most of the british special makes are unavailable in Denmark because of our import and car tax rules.
Well, not unavailable, just priced out of reach. They can't stop you from importing a car that is road-legal in any EC country - but they can charge crazy amounts of customs and tax - at least for now. Our friends in Brussels are working on it...
Posted by: _hardcore_

Re: Bloody Supras! - 03/01/2004 08:30

Well, not unavailable, just priced out of reach. They can't stop you from importing a car that is road-legal in any EC country - but they can charge crazy amounts of customs and tax - at least for now. Our friends in Brussels are working on it...


Oh yes - unfortunately they can stop us having them on the roads. The Danish goverment can't stop us from importing virtually any type af car, but they are stopping us from putting licensplates on them and run them on the public roads. Every country is allowed to have special rules for registration. Denmark has a large number of those. Including a 210% (yes two one zero percent) registration tax for licenseplates. If the cars dosn't meat our strict rules there is no way in hell it gets plates on. Newer Caterhams, and morgans dosn't fit our rules.

Oh well. Perhaps the EU is helping out sometimes in the future.

\\Kaare
Posted by: julf

Re: Bloody Supras! - 04/01/2004 07:50

Newer Caterhams, and morgans dosn't fit our rules.
Any idea what it is that makes them not fit?
Oh well. Perhaps the EU is helping out sometimes in the future.

It is. Finland (another absurdly-high-car-tax country) has already started adjusting the tax down in anticipation of harmonization. And the technical exemptions are temporary too. Brussels is definitely driving for pan-european rules.
Posted by: _hardcore_

Re: Bloody Supras! - 04/01/2004 14:47

Any idea what it is that makes them not fit?


Emissions and crashtest. It's OK to import an old car, eg. the E-type, because it has allready been registreted in Denmark, when it was first launched. But when you take a car that hasn't allready been registreted it has to live up to the current spec.

It is. Finland (another absurdly-high-car-tax country) has already started adjusting the tax down in anticipation of harmonization. And the technical exemptions are temporary too. Brussels is definitely driving for pan-european rules.


Oh yes, trust me - i'm following the discussion in Denmark very close on this matter. Allready now there is a tiny loophole. If you've lived in another EU country, you are now allowed to take your belongings with you import and tax free if you paid tax and what not in the country you came from. You only have to live out of Denmark for six month for this to apply. Ofcource, that didn't come by it self, there had to be a trial against the Danish state in the EU for this to happen. But we're getting there in small steps. There is only one thing you can be certain on, the at all time sitting goverment will have to find other ways to collect taxes, so it's not gonna be cheaper to be Danish.

\\Kaare
Posted by: rob

Re: Bloody Supras! (Update) - 17/01/2004 17:23

I've either come to my senses, or lost them totally. Either way I will be doing a total engine rebuild next month with help from the ever fantastic Arnold/Schofield duo. The parts alone will cost twice what I paid for the car, but I see plenty of plus points:

- Up-rated components top and bottom end should make the engine much more robust
- Opportunities for an easy 80 ish extra BHP, with possibilities for a lot more
- I've always wanted a very shiny engine
- Don't have to reinstall my empeg in yet another car

To be honest, the last bullet point is the main motivation

Rob
Posted by: oliver

Re: Bloody Supras! (Update) - 18/01/2004 02:16

I would say that’s the best possible solution to your problem. I had my timing chain explode on my vr6 a couple of years ago (bent every value on the head), and I was forced to picked a vr6 in better condition from the vw junk yard and rebuild it. I also picked up about $6000+ in engine parts (pretty much everything except the pistons) but I did get new rings too. I've added around 100hp my vr6, and once again I’ve falling back in love with her after she left me stranded a couple hundred miles from home.

Plus if I had the help of patrick and rob, I’m sure that 100hp would have been closer to 1000

I wish the three of you the best of luck, it would be really nice to have a nice photogallery posted documenting the previous damage and rebuild progress.