Cooling fan on Tivo?

I'm trying to befriend a new Hughes DirecTV/Tivo box.

I haven't gotten through the setup screens yet, the satellite dish isn't even installed (I'll do that tomorrow). But even just powering the thing on to enter my zip code and get the azimuth numbers...

The thing's cooling fan is hella loud. Does that stay on all the time, or will it go quiet when I finally get through the setup menu and the software is allowed to run and do its thing?

I can't have a little noise generator in my living room...

Mine is quite loud. I just keep it in my audio/video cabinet and I don't hear a thing.

My SA Tivo fan always runs at the same speed. I can only notice it if nothing else is on in the room and I'm close to it.
it is much better if you can put it into a cabinet though.

Tony, that thing is always on (I own two Hughes DTivos). The one in my bed room is noticable because it's not in a cabinet. However, if you plan on mod'ing your DTivo (I can just picture you opening the door for the UPS man with a screwdriver in one hand and needlenose plyers in the other) then there is an easy way to install a quieter fan.

In fact, the 2nd gen DTivos require a mounting braket for additional drives. This company sells kits that include the brackets (nice design btw), all needed power cables and a quieter fan. It's called the TwinBreaze. I ordered mine, and got great service, but all of the install tutorials for preping a HD aren't writen as well as the empeg one.

Argh.

Okay, thanks for the replies, guys. At least now I know what to do.

I have room in the A/V cabinet for either the tivo or the Samsung hidef tuner. One of them had to be outside. I'd decided that since the tivo had the hard disk, it needed better cooling, and it went outside. I see now that it was the wrong choice. I'll see how they do swapped...

Tony, just trying to repay you a tiny bit for the moutain of information you've given me over the years..

A forum topic with other options on upgrading the stock fan..

To get the most out of you DTivo, you'll need two lines coming from your dish. This allows you to record two shows at once. The best way to do this (if you have more than one receiver in the house) is to get a dish with 4 outputs. The dish that does this also preps you for HDTV and allows you to get the NASA channel. There used to be a really good thread explaining how to do this, but I only found this one, yet it still has all of the information you need.

Thanks for the other fan options. Yes, I knew about the multi-output dish, and yes, mine has four outputs.

I got the NASA channel back when my C-band system still worked, so I'm familiar with it. Didn't realize they were offering it on the digital satellite these days, that's pretty cool.

Actually, the NASA channel is just an excuse... you call and say you really want it but your dish doesn't support it. Then they'll give it to you real cheap. I think I've tuned it in once or twice. I love the "Since you no longer offer DirecTV DSL, I'm thinking of going to cable TV so I can get my TV and internet on one bill.." That gets them jumping through hoops!

To start, I'm happy with DTV, but getting there...

I've had DTV for several months now.

The first installation for a basic 3 room system. That installer (#1) gave us a ride. I already had RG59 coax running from each room out to the garage in a star formation. There they tied to a 4way balun and the antenna. Cable connecters were mostly cheap crimp on. The installer wired the dish up to these.
All three receivers worked. Until I went to dress all the cables behind the family room TV. When everything was turned back on the receiver wouldn't complete the startup. Over the next 24 hours there were problems with all three units. Replacing the cables between the wall plate and receivers was the first step. This helped and showed how important good cables are. Next I tried a simple expedient of buying 150' of the best RG6, swage on connnectors and swage tool. This was run from the family room set, thru the kitchen, down the hall, into the garage, and direct to a dish feed. BINGO. That unit worked perfectly. Clearer pictures, faster receiver startups, even changing channels was quicker. I have not finished replacing all cables yet, but that is on the LIST.

I have a SA Tivo, tried it with the sat receiver. Then unplugged it because of dueling menus, extreamly slow channel changes. The whole experience was just unsatisfactory.

After suffering from Tivo withdrawal, I took the $99 offer for a Dtivo. The chap (#2) who came to install insisted he couldn't do so unless a second cable and a phone line were installed behind the TV. He HAD to do it and couldn't do the hookup to a single coax and the phone extension run from across the room. Impass. He left taking the Dtivo with him. I went ahead and put in the second coax. I should have dropped a phone line at the same time but, I have my internet router hiding behind this tv and expected to connect the Dtivo to that.

The CS folks were helpfull about setting up another Dtivo installer (#3). This time it was someone who seemed to be more closley afilliated with DTV.I learned from #3 that the Pro installers were supposed to provide crawllspace/attic work as needed, and asking for additional money was not allowed. The first two yahoos wanted additional money. The second asked for $100 to run the second Dtivo coax and additional phone line. #3 looked over the entire system. He was disgusted with, the dish location, wire run, wall penetration, and lack of grounding. The dish is supposed to have an earth ground. He fixed the grounding, and wanted to redo the whole dish install. The additional holes in the house didn't seem worth the benifits.

The papers from the original install were on top of the TV. #3 asked for one of the copies to forward with a negitive report. Maybe some good will come of that.

My expectation that I could hookup the Dtivo to the router for daily calls was unrealistic. The USB ports on Dtivos, unlike SA2's, are not active. I didn't do my home work so I didn't know this. Had I, I would have dropped a phone jack when I put in the second cable. It's not a problem Dtivos get their downloads off the dish, otherwise the only need seems to be for, initial setup and PPV ops.

Glenn

gbeer, you can hack your DTivo to activate those USB2.0 ports to get your updates and even extract video. Just visit the Tivo Community Forums..

When was the last time you looked for that info?

The Dtivo is already setup, it gets it's updates off the dish. I don't do PPV. So why do I need either a phone or usb?

I looked about a week ago. There are a ton of "supported" USB to ethernet adapters too. To be honest, I don't see why using the dish to download the guide is a big deal either. Pulling video for burning to DVDR would be nice!

I'd decided that since the tivo had the hard disk, it needed better cooling, and it went outside.

I originally put my DTiVo under my TV, where it could be muffled by the glass doors of my equipment cabinet. It didn't work. The TiVo was overheating on a regular basis and shutting itself down; the internal thermometer claimed it was getting over 50C, yet calling that "normal" temerature!

Now, I have the DTiVo on its side, outside the TV, exposing the entire bottom of the unit to the air. It's now running 10 degrees cooler and has never had subsequent heat-related problems. The noise issue is only really noticable if I'm listening to music with quiet parts. Watching normal TV, it's not really noticable. I've occasionally unplugged the TiVo to lower the noise floor, but it's typically not worth the bother.

Meanwhile, I'm still waiting for the all-in-one HD-DirecTiVo. That will be when I make the big jump.

Thanks, Dapper Dan. Your experience with heat on the DTivo mirrors my experience with heat on my old C-band Highdef decoder. If it was inside the stereo cabinet, it got too hot and my highdef movies would start blacking out. So I set it on its side outside of the stereo cabinet and all was well. I'm hoping that the new Samsung HDTV receiver doesn't have similar problems, it's currently inside the cabinet...

I have not moved the DTivo into the stereo cabinet. I started to, but then discovered that I couldn't do the same tricky outside-mounting stunt for the Samsung HTDV receiver. So I left the Samsung in the cabinet and the DTivo outside. Anyway, I did a quick check of the DTivo inside the cabinet and it wasn't that much quieter, so there is no point in burying the DTivo without any real benefit.

So we're now down to figuring out how to make the DTivo quieter. Since it's essentially sitting in open air (it's on a tricky kind of rack mounting system right now in the same way that I mounted my Mk1 on my CD rack), all six sides are exposed to open air. So I'm thinking I can safely lower the fan speed with a resistor and then vibration-isolate it. Anyone got any thoughts on that?

Next comment about the DTivo:

I didn't realize until AFTER I'd activated its programming card, and ordered the Tivo service, that it doesn't tune local off-air TV stations. ARRRRGGGGGHHH! The thing has two freaking tuners in it, and you're telling me I can't pick up ordinary TV pictures with it?

Now, normally this wouldn't be a problem. I'd just get digital versions of the local channels from DirecTV.

But I already decided not to pay the four bucks per month for local stations because I get all of them perfectly with my newly-installed roof antenna. In fact, the Samsung picks up both the local stations AND their highdef/digital equivalents just great. So when I'm on the phone with the direcTV people, and they list which local stations I'd get for the $4/mo fee, I realize I don't need them.

I feel completely cheated now, because I'm in the position of feeling like I'm being strong-armed into paying an extra $4/mo that I shouldn't have to pay in the first place.

Why would they build a Tivo that doesn't tune in local stations?

Oh, I think I just answered my own question.

I hate DirecTV.

The technical reason is that there's no MPEG encoder in the DTiVo units, so it can't do anything with those channels.

Why would they build a Tivo that doesn't tune in local stations?

because in a DirecTivo, there is no need for an MPEG encoder chip. the MPEG streams are stored directly as received from the dish, so a whole chunk of circuitry from the SA models can be tossed out (along with the cost).

that has always been the harsh tradeoff between an SA and DirecTivo: do you go for the dual tuners and (potentially) higher video quality of the DirecTivo, or go with the SA that can only record one stream, but it can be from any analog video source. some people end up with both boxes.

--dan.

Why would they build a Tivo that doesn't tune in local stations?

As has been answered by others, there is no MPEG encoder. But, at least with the Dish 921 (the HDTV PVR), it will record off the air HDTV signals as well, due to still not needing an MPEG encoder. I am sure other HDTV sat PVRs will offer this as well.

As Bitt said, the DTivos do not do any mpeg encoding, they just record the stream from the dish. That's why they are cheaper than normal Tivos.

So I went through this fan issue a while ago, and read a TON of forum posts that said the hard drive was the culpret for all the noise and NOT the fan... I didn't take the cover off and investigate this, but that's what I read, over and over again.

I ended up deciding to live with the noise until the HD TiVo comes out (probably early next year).

My series 1 Sony DirecTivo T-60 will continue to be loud until then, at which point I'll sell it to someone else who will be annoyed by the loud whirr...

- Jon

My fan is sitting in its box still... i can give a little "before and after" report. I don't think my SPL meter will be able to pick it up however.

I'd love to hear your results. The informal results are good for me... No meter required...

- Jon

Here's another way to look at it. That $99 unit and $5/month subscription is heavily subsidized by DirecTV. Would you rather pay the extra $4/month for the locals or have the TiVo cost $250 for the hardware and $12/month for the service?

-Dylan

And DirecTV's Tivo fee of $5 covers all the DTivos in your house... (ie, the "other" $5 fee to mirror a reciever includes not only the programming but the Tivo services).

The fan upgrade from www.weaknees.com made a HUGE difference in noise! I replaced the stock fan AND added a 2nd one and to be honest, the hard drive is pretty quiet even though it's not as masked as it was before... good upgrade.

I wish I'd known about the "weaknees" thing last week. On Friday I put in a 60mm Vantech Stealth fan and it's not any quieter than the factory fan.

I have done the following to reduce the fan noise:

- Replaced the factory fan with a Vantech Stealth.

- Isolated the fan from the chassis with foam so that it doesn't transmit vibrations to the case.

- Connected a Zalman fan speed controller (with the knob protruding out the back of the Tivo so I can control it from outside).

Still not good enough. If I turn down the fan speed so it's quiet enough for me, then it doesn't move enough air to keep the innards cool.

Honestly, I'm really only worried about the hard disk getting too hot. If they'd simply designed the inside so that the hard disk wasn't so close to the power supply heat sink, I'd be able to get away with a lower fan speed.

The Vantech Stealth fan really REALLY sucks noise-wise. It's got a definite electromechanical "thrum" to it, a pitched frequency sound that's clearly NOT caused from the airflow. I thought the whole point of a quiet fan was supposed to be to get rid of exactly this kind of noise and reduce it to just the airflow noise.

And before anyone asks, it makes this same noise whether I've connected the speed controller or not.

I'm beginning to think that the Vantech people just slap a "stealth" label onto their fans without the fans actually being anything special noise-wise.

Argh.

I know what you mean about the Vantec Stealth fans. You think you've been had when you bought their "stealth" fans? Try buying their "stealth" PSUs ! They are without a doubt amoung the loudest of PSU's I've EVER heard.

This is a list of recommended quiet fans by a site that has made it it's goal in life to get people's PC's as silent as possible. It seems that the Panaflo fans by Panasonic are very popular.

I wonder why Zalman doesn't make case fans. They don't, do they? I mean, I love my Zalman products, and they halved the noise level of my case (now only the hard disks are noisy).

I don't know, I never thought my Tivo was very noisy. I can only hear it when I'm right next to it.

Zalman DO make fans. It's just that they aren't particulary better than the ones of the competition. Fortunately, the rest of their products are.

Tony, the www.weaknees.com "Twinbreaze" package not only has a quieter "main" fan, but it also has a 2ndary fan that mounts to the new drive bracket. It is aimed right at the chip's heat sinks. That new drive bracket raises the hard drive up from the board (to aid cooling) and allows mounting of a 2nd hard drive. So, the unit is cooler becuase of the new location of the hard drive(s) and the addition of the 2nd fan. Both fans mount with little rubber washers to issolate them. Your mention of the foam reminded me of these extra features.

How MUCH quieter is that main fan?

To me, any noise other than the woosh of air is going to be too much. Is there any hum, buzz, or otherwize pitched frequency sound from it?

See, my living room is totally silent when the fridge or AC aren't running, and even the slightest hum is annoying...

You're in luck! I have two Hughes HDVR2's - one with the new fans and one without. I'm getting my SPL meter back tomorrow and can do an A to B comparison for you. I assume the one fan will be enough for you unless you plan on adding another drive. Both units are recording The Simpsons now, so we'll have to wait for even a non-SPL test.

Zalman DO make fans

Ah, I knew it. I couldn't find it. They don't have very well-created web sites (it's a problem that they have multiple sites in the first place). It seems like they mainly focus on cooling and silencing products for specific components, though, so I guess it wouldn't be much of a suprise if their case fans aren't the best.

See, my living room is totally silent when the fridge or AC aren't running
I thought you had children...

I have one child, who is old enough to be quiet sometimes. In fact, when watching a movie or TV, she's quiet as a mouse and sits there as if hypnotized...

What fan are they using ?

Brad, did you ever get those sound measurements? The DTivo (Philips DVR6000 - Series 1) isn't as loud as my Shuttle computer, but it's still much noiser than the golden silence I had before I plugged it in. And yes, I finally just plugged it in after having it for over a month.

I've ordered (and am now waiting for) 9thTee's Cachecard with Ethernet (instead of getting a plain Turbonet) and I think it would be a good idea to put a replacement fan into the unit when I open it up. I may drop in a bigger drive as well because I think my watching schedule may get back-logged.

Curious what make/model fan is being sold by Weaknees. I've seen 16dba ADDA fans (13CFM) recommended for the DTivo and selling for $8. http://phamcomputer.safeshopper.com/43/79.htm?56

Bruno