A few days ago, after having my player for about a month, I got the "no hard disk" found error when starting my car. I went to work thinking my player was screwed and I read how it is probably needing a new hard drive cable, as there were problems with some that went out.

When I left work, the player was working again and all was good for a few days. Yesterday, the same error came back when I started the car to go to work. Yet again, when I left work the player was fine and booted up.

Why is it that it suddenly starts working again? I didn't remove it or anything. It was in the same position the whole day. I don't have a problem replacing the hard drive cable, but is it really the cable if the player was not moved between not working and working?

I contacted Dave at customer support and he is sending me a new cable. I guess I will go ahead and change it, but it that really the cause of all this?

Any light on the subject is appreciated.

p.s. I upgraded to 2.0 beta 11 before all of this started happenin, but it ran for a couple weeks fine on the beta version.

I have a similar problem... I got a new cable, installed it and I thought everything was fine, but last night it locked up again... Now I have to contact them again

I have the same problem, with 2HD. cable replaced, changed the disks, jumper, cable position... but still the same: When I start my car before going to work, Tux always tell me the same thing with its x-eyes... and after 5 mins I can reboot it.
Maybe a temperature problem? disks have to warm up?
It's very anoying :-(

This has happened to me twice since replacing my cable.

The first time, I had not securely connected the cable to the board (I triple checked the connections on the drives, but somehow didn't check the board connection)

The second time, I had left the player in my car overnight and it was COLD. After warming up the car a bit, it booted fine. I heard the Fuji drives are more temperature sensitive (to cold) than the IBM's. I really shouldn't have left the thing in the car overnight anyway. (as a theft deterant too)

[Conspiracy Theory]
What brand drive is in all of your players? I am going to bet all of them are Fujitsu. I had the same problems with my 60GB Fujitsu player. I replaced the Fujitsus with IBMs (same cable) and haven't had this problem since.
[/Conspiracy Theory]

Lucky for me, I was able to use the Fujitsu drives in other things. So, replacing them wasn't a total loss.

seams fujitsu are too sensitive to cold...
My rio didn't boot at 10°C this morning.
In official empeg docs, this shouldn't happen.
But my empeg with 2 IBM 60 gigs never failed, either in winter with -10°C.
But will support replace them???

Ditto here.. the only unit (of the five I've handled) that ever showed a glitch was the only one with a Fujitsu (30GB) drive installed.

How about.. is it all Fujitsu's here?

Rob, you sold one of the Fujis to me you bastard!

um, i'm not sure if this has been mentioned, but when I first got my rio, I immediately opened it and plugged it in only to get no HD found. And almost every morning I also plug the rio in to the same screen. Yet I have found this does not have to do with the HD cable. It's too cold. Let it heat up a bit. I now leave my rio plugged in overnight in my room to keep it going and warmed up so in the morning it's ready to go when I plug it in. Works every time.

unless it gets below 41 degrees in your room... that shouldn't happen...

Indeed mine is too!

Had a very similar problem: usually a morning thing - get in the car and it fails to work for a little bit. It's never something that doesn't go away after a while.

Any word on support's stance on replacing these? Sounds like they are not working to spec?

Rob, you sold one of the Fujis to me you bastard!

I sold you a Fujitsu I bought from the Computer Geeks, not one that came from Empeg. The reason I sold it to you was not to unload it on some poor sap. Rather, it was because I had just acquired a 60GB RioCar and no longer had a need for that drive. The drive I sold you never displayed these problems. If you would like me to refund it, I will. As long as you don't get the Fujitus too cold, they seem to be fine.

Currently, the two drives I swaped out of the RioCar are at Fujitsu USA being RMA'd just to be sure I have working drives.

Rob, I was just kidding, but if you want to send me a 60GB drive, I'll do it!

The drive has been flawless. As I stated, I shouldn't be leaving the player in my car anyway, so it not starting up in the sub-zero temps of Detroit winter didn't upset me.

It is actually a fairly quiet drive. Besides, it is full, so I'm yanking it out soon anyway.

Anyone selling a used 40 or 48gb drive?

The drives are no doubt just fine, but perhaps slightly fussier (than the IBMs) about something like maybe the duration of the reset pulse, perhaps. This could be figured out with a logic analyser plugged onto the IDE cable.

-ml

I've done the decent (warranty-valid) thing and contacted the guys in Cambridge to take a look. I have never even heard of reset pulses and logic analysers, so I think it's probably over my head

*runs to google to look these terms up*

Yep Mine is a Fujitsu as well. When I first opened up the Empeg and saw that it had a Fujitsu in it I immediately started hearing that Edgar Allen Poe music by Alan Parsons in the back of my head as I have never had good luck with Fuji Hard Drives. It seems to me that this should be a supported issue as long as the unit is being operated within published specs. Given the great service that I have received so far I have no reason to think otherwise.

I find that my drives outlive their capacities before they outlive their mechanical life!

I am in the Bay Area though, we don't have such a thing as extreme weather. Would just having the emeg in my car in my underground garage all night be the reason for it getting too cold. MY garage can't be THAT cold. But when it is in the sun all day it works fine, so maybe that is a cause.

This morning I got "Failed to Unmask IDE" when I started my car. Pulled the empeg out and back in and all was fine. This is very odd to me.

I've been getting a bunch of "failed to unmask IDE" errors since replacing the cable... I think I might have a loose cable in there
:\

I had the cable replaced recently and it worked fine until tonite.It wasnt that cold but i figured it didnt work because of that so I blasted it with the heater for a bit and then it booted just fine.I also have the infamous fujitsu 30gb drive.

Has anyone checked whether these Fujitsu drives need a firmware upgrade?

A lot of smart HDDs employ a timer against some initialisation parameters that are sometimes over optimistic that a little patience in software would overcome.

If this is true, it's nothing that a new Emplode couldn't handle I'm sure.

Rue

Another "me too" here. The drive that I have that almost always does "contact support" or "failed to unmask ide" when the temp is below about 10°C is also a 30Gb Fujitsu. Restarting always fixes the problem, so in my case it is not that it won't work at that temp, just that the drive takes longer to spin the first time than normal at that temp.

You can add me to the long list. My Empeg started freaking out after the first 2.0 beta. I got intermitent No Hard Disk Found all the time. Swapped the cable and still no luck. Put in a BRAND NEW IBM travelstar (the drive that was already installed was also an IBM) that I bought at Fry's and the problem still exists. Finally I just started using one of the units I purchased as a spare.

so where does the problem come from???
fujitsu drives?
mk2a?
2b11(+hijack)?

Hi,

Just to note that i've had this too. 3 times now on both AC and DC. Running 2.0b11 and Hijack 226 (soon to be updated to latest Hijack).

Haven't contacted Support as i'm awaiting the outcome of this thread and have plenty of warranty left. Haven't opened the Empeg yet so don't know Fuji or IBM ?

HURRAH ! Notably though I've had NO Lockups since installing Hijack that included the fixes. WELL DONE MLORD !

If you use HTTP to surf to /proc/ide/hda/model on your player, it will tell you the brand/model of hard drive.

Cheers

FUJITSU MHM2200AT

So i'm added to the dodgy Fuji theory then !

Mine is an IBM Travelstar drive. And, once I replaced the cable (single drive model), everthing has been great.

I have the same problem. I have 2 48GB IBM drives. It only started happening after I went from 1.03 to 2.0BXX. I have not backreved yet as it has not happened in a few days. It is interesting that it was warm the last 7 days and it has not happened. I do not think it is a cable as I have left the unit untouched in the dash and it went from working to not working and vice versa.

Steve

untouched?
but you said you upgraded?
so you had to have taken it out to do that...
and with the cable issue, being in your dash as you drive could be enough for it to go bad and the it could be fine after settling...

Well I guess I spoke too soon. It happened this morning. It was about 60* when I started my car so I do not think that temperature is the problem. So after that I drive to work, and went out for lunch and it works fine. I really don’t se any pattern of when and why it happens. I think I will go back to 1.03 and see what happens.

Steve

have you even tried contacting support for a new cable?

Yes, I already installed a new cable and that did not make a difference.

Steve

sorry....I didn't read the whole thread...
I know I haven't had an issue with mine since I got a new cable...
have they offered to have you send it in for support?

I have not asked. I don't think it is a hardware problem. Like I said the problem only happened after updating from 1.03 to 2.0BXX. I think I am going to backrev and see what happens.

Steve

I backreved to 1.03, it worked fine all yesterday, and this morning the same thing happened, no boot up. Like many have mentioned, after a few hours in the sun I bet the unit will start up again.

So I just went to the post office, and the empeg booted just fine. It was outside in my car the whole day at work, and the car was warm. Leads me to lean more in favor of the Fujitsu theory that the drives are sensitive to weather, or weather changes. If anyone has anything else to add, please do, it will help a lot of us out with Fujitsu drives. Just trying to make sense of all of this and pinpoint the problem.

My 60, one I bought over Christmas, does this perhaps weekly. But it's always been when it was really cold out, so I usually just scold myself and bring it in the house to warm back up. Works fine afterwards. How do we tell what drives are installed? I DID check the FAQ, I expected it to be there

I have the Fujitsu drives in my 60 gig, and the unit worked fine this morning after the worst snow storm this season hit. Never seen any problems with the unit yet. So aparently it's not a universal thing, or it didn't mind the overly cold car that much

good to hear yours is working out. I brought mine in last night, thinking maybe my underground garage is cold for some reason. I had it in my apartment the whole night, where I have the heater on to 68-70 degrees. But again this morning in my car it wouldn't boot. The madness never ends. If history repeats itself, when I leave work the player will be back to normal.

How do we tell what drives are installed?

Previously in this thread Mark Lord said:

If you use HTTP to surf to /proc/ide/hda/model on your player, it will tell you the brand/model of hard drive.

Or remove the lid to read the label.

/Michael

I have two IBM drives and it happens to me. It happened today. I left to go get food and got the no hard disk, contact support message. I unplugged and replugged for a few minutes with no luck. I ran in got my food and fired up my car and the empeg worked like a champ. It is around 60-75 today so I don't think it is temp related. Has this happened to anyone with just 1 drive? It may be a timing issue? Also for people who have not read my previous posts, yes I have tried a new cable.

Steve

When this happens to me, I get the feeling that it's an issue with the drives not spinning up fast enough. I can unplug it and replug it without success. But, if I reboot from the Hijack menu it works every time.

I'm guessing that rebooting rather than unplugging allows the drives to remain spinning, so they're recognized the next time. So, to all who are experiencing this, I'd recommend a quick Hijack reboot first before yanking the power.

adavidw,
so you have ALWAYS had success doing this technique? Has it ever been where hijack couldn'r reboot it successfully? I was just running 2.0 beta 11 when I had all these problems. And how often do you get the error of no hard disk?

I only get it once in a blue moon, but rebooting through hijack always makes my player work.

I have tried the Hijack reboot many times and never once has it worked. I am just stumped.

Steve

If the problem is a cabling issue, then rebooting it wouldn't really fix it. My thought is that my specific case is just a case of the drive(s) taking too long to spin up sometimes (like when cold). So, keeping them spinning while rebooting works for me. Doesn't work for everyone, though, I'm sure.

hi everyone. im a brand new user/poster on the board but i have tried to lurk here for a while to understand where everyone is coming from and also get used to the empeg so i dont come on asking dumb questions and just annoying people or getting reverted to the FAQ. now however i really have to post a question so ive registered and all that jazz.

ive had the empeg since mid february 2002, bought from www.carplayer.com with a 10gb hdd in it. it was working flawlessly till recently, a few days ago i pulled the unit from my car and stuck it in my room awaiting a 30gb drive to be added. yes, fujitsu. i didnt get around to it and it was left in my room a few days. tried to get it up and running - No Hard Disk Found. panicked, but i remember reading similar problems on the board, and people talking about fujitsu drives and cold temperatures. ok, checked temp - 28C. blasted it with the heater for a bit, till it reached 36C - worked. was fine.

cut to 3 days ago. finally took the unit apart, found out the original drive was the good old IBM Travelstar 10gb. so much for the conspiracy theory (i think others also have had similar errors with the IBM's now?) ok, added new drive, formatted it, fitted jumper for slave setting, reconnected everything - No Hard Disk found. hmm. checked temp - ok, 26C again. blasted with heater till past 38C - still no go. ripped everything out, checked all cables, still nothing. tried just the IBM back in its default config - it worked! ok, just the fujitsu by itself - also worked!! both drives back in... no go!! just when i decided i knew what was happening, it booted. with both attached. sync'd it with emplode - reported 38gb capacity, 28gb free, etc etc. all good! played a few songs (for about an hour) - great. ok, pulled power out, reattached immediately after pulling it out - No Hard disk. F_!(@#*. rip it all out again. checked all the pins...


anyway you get the idea. i have no idea what is causing this problem for me.

-i am using the IBM Travelstar 10gb, and a new fujitsu 30gb, model MHN2300 or something (full details at home)
-i have never gotten the "failed to unmask IDE" message.
it has been running 2.0b7 till b11 came out, and has been fine with 2.0b11 for ages now.
-has had hijack 251 in there for 2 weeks now? was running hijack from day 1 too, updating regularly.
-have tried on AC and DC power. my AC adapter was 110V, unusable by me as i am in 220V land, so i have always hooked it up to my bench power supply - 14V at 5 amps, more than enough current - still no go.
-used hijack to force AC or DC modes - no go.
-used hijack reboot feature about 10,000 times - no go.
-as mentioned, heating it also no effect
-fiddled with the ide cable for 3 years, pushing it all the way in, only half way, 1/3 in, 3/4 in, blah blah. no go.

the unit decides for itself when it comes on and when it doesnt. in the car this morning it booted and played perfectly for 40 mins on my way into town. got there, pulled it out, pushed it back into the cage immediately - no hard disk. pulled it out and pushed it in another 25 times - no go. even got to the point of me pulling it out, tapping it, shaking it, putting it back - no go.

someone please help me. please.

Did you, as suggested in the Drive Upgrade guide, try swapping the master/slave order of the disk drives?

mine had that problem because the 10 GB travelstar in my player was not mounted using spacers under the drive as recommended in the upgrade faq.

hi tony - youre legendary

but yes, i tried that, but will try again. right now the ibm is the master (no jumpers) and the fujitsu is the slave (one jumper in the rightmost position as listed on the drive label).

i did the opposite and tried the fujitsu as master - this actually worked (i only tried this one time) but the boot time took forever. it loaded the startup screen where it reads off its status like "loading playlists"..."loading visuals"... you know, that short bootup screen that only usually is there for like 2 secs - with the fujitsu as master, the bootup stopped at "building music database" or something like that, for like 15 seconds, before continuing. i figured it was something to do with the fujitsu being empty? but i didnt think too much about it. surely other users with 2 drives set up dont have to wait this long...? i did not sync with emplode after this to see if all 40gb were recognised. - i tried the ibm by itself, sometimes this works, sometimes not. i have not tried the fujitsu by itself.

i have been going on the assumption that the IDE cable works the same way as a normal PC one, ie, slave in the middle, master at the end. am i fundamentally wrong here? does it make a difference? the original drive was plugged into the middle connector... making it a slave? but it was a master cus it was the only one??

i will go over all this again tonite extensively and post my findings... its just a bit confusing and annoying that it hasnt been a simple task. the current fail rate (or, number of "No Hard Disk found" versus successful boot rate) is very very high. i can put up with it failing on every other cold morning, in fact if all i had to do every day was reboot it or pull power and replug it in, to get it to work, id be happy. but right now its basicallly unusable

oh, my other concern is possibly faulty IDE cable? visually it looks fine but of course it does, i guess. i am unsure how to test it (i dont have a laptop) or how to order a replacement? can i get another generic laptop one or should i get one from empeg/rio somehow?

thank you to you and anyone who can help - sorry to be long winded. on the plus side i just got a renewed 'warrant of fitness' for my car (road legal requirement here in NZ) even tho its turbocharged when it shouldnt be, so thats my happy side of today hassle-free boost for another 6 months! yay for slack dodgy mechanics!

The reason the database error happened at bootup after swapping the drives is because the new drive order did not have the database on the primary drive.

You simply need to put the drives into the order that "worked" and then synch with emplode once (the thing you specifically said you did NOT do) to rebuild the database and get it to work properly.

i understand about the database error side of things... after i did that i returned the drives to how they DID work, like you said - the master (with all the music, and the original database and whatnot) is the ibm, like from factory. then the fujitsu sucker is on slave. thats how i left it, and it has been temperamental

when i got home i opened it up and was about to start swapping all the units over, all i had done was sorta jiggle the ide cable about and press all the connections in again (nothing moved, they were all in fully), and just decided to try to power up - it worked!! without changing any drive order or resynching or anything. after test booting it a couple of times i seem now to have a fully working player, once again. one would have to assume, dodgy IDE cable connection somewhere along the line? id hate for this to crop up again in a few days, brought on by vibrations in the car...

could you direct me where to go to find out about ordering a replacement cable, OR like i said before, can i simply use a generic laptop style cable instead? just in case my problems have stemmed from the ide cable

anyway all seems ok for now so we'll see.

you other guys who have been having this problem - have you all sorted out the issues as well? what are your findings?

could you direct me where to go to find out about ordering a replacement cable, OR like i said before, can i simply use a generic laptop style cable instead? just in case my problems have stemmed from the ide cable

Email carsupport@empeg.com

A generic laptop IDE cable will probably not have the connectors - well the middle one anyway - in the proper position, or be of the same length, to fold in the same way the original (custom) cable. That could cause trouble for the drive plate to move properly, or rub or press against some component.

/Michael

To all problem-diagnosers,

MKIIa, 30GB, not sure what brand drive, 2 beta 11, No Hijack, only used on AC at room temperature. Have had Failed to unmask IDE error and no HD error several times, but it never fails to boot up successfully 10 seconds later.

not sure what brand drive

To read make and model of harddrive:
cat /proc/ide/hda/model

or view it / download it via ftp

/Michael

Lofreq - I have the same problem. I have swapped cables. Swapped master/slave and I still get the no hard disk found every so often. I have 2 exact drives. They are both 48GB IBM Travelstor. I am not sure I will ever figure out why it happens. There is no rhyme or reason. It can happen even if I don't touch the unit. For example it works fine I go run into the store to get something, come back out and boom get the error. It makes no sense as I have not touched the unit.

Steve

yeah same - i also notice that it does seem to crash sometimes just before it f*cks out - it starts going real slow and staggered, then finally stops altogether. reboot = no hard disk. has yours crashed like this?

for example... youre playing a song perfectly fine... suddenly the whole thing slows down - the song breaks up into staggered segments, with gaps of silence inbetween... maybe 5 to 7 gaps per second... so like if youre listening to freddie mercury yelling "we will we will rock you" it slows down to become "w-w-w-e-e-e-e- - - w-w-w-i-i-l-l-l-l- - - w-w-w-e-e-e- - -w-w-w-i-i-l-l-l-l-l-l- - - -r-r-r-o-o-c-c-k-k-k - -y-o-u-u-u-u" with each dash representing a pause. i dunno how else to explain it, sorry if that sounds retarded.

the visualisations also stop and start, in time to the pauses. the scrolling of the title (if youre in INFO:Line mode) ALSO stops and starts all in synch. the buttons stop responding - holding down the top button will not pause or turn the unit off. the only way i can kill it is to pull the sled. push it back in - no hard disk found. wait a few mins/hours randomly, and it will either start coming up with 'failed to unmask ide', or if youre lucky it will start going again.

just something to put up with for now i guess. i really supect the initial problem is a dodgy IDE cable... what else could it be! its too random! so i will look into ordering a replacement.

i havent read up enough about the crashing to see if other's units (that are crashing) crash in the same way so i'll go look around now. knowing my luck theres probably a solution already in the FAQ that i have missed

Could we maybe get some input here from someone at Empeg/SB? It seems like this is an official epidemic and that, judging by the lack of similar reports until recently, it's caused by b11, no? Mine is tempremental as hell!

If Beta11 is the problem, then the answer is to go back to 1.03 until the next release. There's no support for beta releases, and we're already way past B11 with the alpha team.

Rob

Think it might just be spin-up timing? That could even be fixed in Hijack if it were the case. Someone get hold of Mark...

I really do think it has something to do with the drive timing. I never had this problem with 1.03. I have not gone back becuase the problem does not happen that often and also 2.0Bx is so much nicer! I also never had it act funny first like lofreq mentioned. . It either works (perfectly) or not at all.

Steve

Things have been much smoother for me since I installed HiJack. I think it is the spin up times, and a little to do with weather as well. In the morning, it has a little more tendency to not start up. But if I do the HiJack reboot, all works well. If I leave it in the sun all day, it NEVER has a problem starting up. So I would recommend to all having drive spin-up problems, to try Hijack and see how it goes. You can always drop down to 1.03 or just 2.0 b11 whenever.

ok, i think my unit's been working long enuf without this problem coming up again to assume i have fixed the problem.

after all the headbanging wondering what the problem was i decided to check the one thing i suspected before (and its the first thing in the FAQ) - IDE cable. this time i pulled the whole cable out of the computer and inspected it like a madman in macro mode. i found that the connector on the motherboard end had the tineiest arc in it, such that the pins in the middle were actually slightly visible inbetween the plastic and the grey ribbon cable. i pressed the black plastic down hard and this sealed off the gap again - took a bit of pressure.

after reassembly and testing it till now, i have not seen the stoned tux at all.

just thought id report this here hopefully others still getting this excruciating problem might be able to look into this yet again and hopefully cure their problem too.

goodluck

-nige