This might be long. Let me apologize in advance...

Curious if anybody out there in empeg land has installed their empeg in a mid-nineties VW Golf or Jetta.
I have a 1995 Golf and a co-worker of mine has a 1997 Jetta. Both had basic stock sound systems from the factory.
We both now have Mk2 empegs, the same amps (Kenwood KAC748's), the same rear speakers (Cerwin Vega HED 1652E's), slightly different front speakers (I have Rockford Fosgates, his are Polks), and the same factory tweeters.

Thats the background.

The problem is in my car it sounds like all the bass is being stripped out of the music. I get pretty much only highs, and a little bit of midtones.
Really bad sound quality.
Any monkeying with the EQ doesnt seem to help. If I take my same empeg, and put it in his Jetta, it sounds great. And thats with the EQ's at a flat setting. In my car with a flat setting the quality is verging on unacceptable.
I'm wondering if the 1995 vintage volkswagens maybe had some kind of filter, or something weird in the wiring for the stock sound system that I should bypass. (we recycled some of the speaker wire runs)
In both installs we used the same exact wiring technique. Heres the info on that.
So I'm at a total loss.

We spent about an hour last night going back and forth between the two cars, comparing different settings, and the verdict was that for some reason my car sounds like total shite.
I've searched around the web for potential solutions but came up with nothing.
We've checked and double checked the polarity of our hookups and our amp gain settings are identical.
If I set the fader all the way to the front, I get zero bass.
When I set the fader all the way to the rear, I get a little bass but still not what I was getting with the stock system. And I think thats mostly because their just bassier speakers by nature. (and the rear speakers are the only ones in the system that are direct wired to the amp). Again mostly highs.
Could it be something with the amp? Too much voltage, not enough voltage? Does that have nothing whatsoever to do with this, and I'm only exposing my ignorance.

Anybody else have any other ideas of something to look for, or something from their own install?
If youre still with me, congratulations and thanks for listening.

Z~

Well for starters, I'd disconnet the speaker wires from amp. and get a multimeter and ohm them. There should be from 3-6 ohms per speaker, varies abit on what type you got. If this is not the case, you might have an amp. built into you car like
I had.

Also, be sure to check that you have wired the + terminals from the amp. to the + terminal on the speakers, and that they are all wired the same.

These are my first two guesses.

TommyE

I installed mine in a '98 Jetta, using the same wiring method. I get acceptable bass. When my wife's in the car with me, she keeps the volume rather low, and I have a hard time hearing the low end (which is really no surprise, as I think I'm a bit deaf in that range anyway). However, at what I would deem "acceptable" volume levels (about midway in the volume range on the head unit), there's plenty of bass. So much so that on some songs I feel the urge to turn it down, as my amp can dish out more than my speakers can take, and I don't want to blow them.

And this is with my rear desk speakers not sealing the deck holes, which would actually decrease my bass somewhat.

Is it possible your amp has a built-in crossover and you've just got it set wrong (i.e., filtering out the low end)?

Sounds like an out of phase speaker somewhere.

Calvin

Im about 98% sure that the polarity's on the speakers are correct. But I suppose double checking couldnt hurt.

I'm think my next plan of action is to abandon the stock wire runs from the head unit to the amp that I recycled, and run all new wires. That way I'll know theres nothing between them messing up the signal.
Fortunately its a small car and the wire runs are fairly accessible.
Guess its gonna be another bloody knuckle weekend.

Z~

I'm think my next plan of action is to abandon the stock wire runs from the head unit to the amp that I recycled, and run all new wires

Pull the amp out of the car, take it to your friendly stereo shop (or, connect it to your friend's car) and test the hell out of it; or borrow your friend's amp and test it in your car. If I had to guess, I would say you have an amplifier problem. Don't assume that the amp is working properly.

tanstaafl.

Sounds like an out of phase speaker somewhere.

That's a good point. When I first got my Accord, I had wired one of the rear deck speakers out of phase, and was surprised how awful the bass sounded. It wasn't subtle, it was very obvious.

I discovered the polarity problem almost immediately because I shifted the balance left and right, and noticed that the bass sounded fine when the balance was to one side or the other, but awful when it was centered. That was the give-away for me, and it took me only a minute to find and correct the backwards wires.

I don't want to come off like a prick, but I will. Why in the world are you installing it in a VW Golf, Jetta or whatever. When you see a VW you are looking for a hot chick driving it, period. So unless you are a hot chick...what the hell are you thinking????

Although I will agree that there are certain cars that appeal more to women than men, I don't think the Jetta and Golf are in that category. I happily drove a Golf GTI 16v for ten years and never felt un-masculine.

Now, when a car comes standard with a flower bud vase for the dashboard, I'd consider that a clear sign of the vehicle's target market...

Immediately after reading this, I said to myself "oh no, let him say whatever he pleases".
But no.
VW Golfs are very fine cars. Specially sound-wise. Stock speaker openings in the doors are fine. With some work you reach a very fine soundtsage.
If your kind of car is one of those american cars with poorly-designed interiors, bad (or none) sound insulation, then it's your choice. But you have no right to call VWs the way you did.

Right, everybody knows that Real Men (TM) drive, err, vehicles that look as if purchased on a surplus open-pit mining equipment sale

vehicles that look as if purchased on a surplus open-pit mining equipment sale

Open-pit mining equipment is pretty durable!

Hey, in my own defense the Golf was my girlfriends idea. (And she is a hot chick so bite me).
When we moved to "The Big City" I got rid of my truck (purchased at a surplus open-pit mining sale) cause we only really needed one car.
The Golf kicks ass.
Its a GTI mildly hotted up by yours truly. It gets about 30 MPG, and I swear you can park that sucker just about anywhere.
Throw a Thule rack on top and your perfectly capable of carrying multiple sheets of plywood/sheetrock/lattice, 3 mountain bikes, skis, furniture etc. Its almost as useful as my truck was.
The thing is unstoppable.
I put on a set of blizzaks mounted on industrial black steel rims, and I can drive through 6 inches of snow at up to 70 mph.
(My buddy who has the Jetta can attest to that.)
So call it a chick car, or whatever. I dont care.
When you see me in traffic, come on over and tell me I must be a girl for driving a golf. All 6' 2", 225 pounds of me will assure you otherwise.
I now consider the subject closed, because not only is this decidedly off topic its really childish.

Z~

P.S. my dad can beat up your dad

Agreed .. the Turbo is no match for Scoobies and the like, but its plenty quick enough.

I can name plenty of girls cars but the Golf ain't one of them ...

- BMW Z3
- Mazda MX5
- Anything by Fiat ....

And I'm 6ft 2, 290lbs (on a well needed diet though !)

Waahhahaha.. yea.. reminds me of several people making fun of me for my 2000 jetta.. I think it got the Car/Driver 4th place
for chick car, and 1st place for best car for gay men.

LOL!

yea.. sure it may have a bit of euro trendy to it, but it's
such a well designed, practical car that the "manlyness" of
the car/driver "man-cars" just makes me realize how stupid
they were..
sure, you can be really manly in a dodge viper, but gas/insurance aside, it doesn't outweigh the fact that I can put a 2m long banquet table in my trunk (fold down seats) and still close the lid all the way.



also, when I was looking at new cars... the jetta (1999->) has the BEST sound layout i've seen in a car.. identical 6" speakers in the front/rear doors, and 1" tweeter mounts exactly where they need to be in the corner of the doors.

factory included separate amplifier (i ditched for an xtant) make it great for someone like my gf who has a 2001 jetta.

euro designs tend to be fairly gender neutral.. except when you take into account the excessive male ego of americans.

yea.. I may have to do this in my 2000 Jetta one of these days.. I think there is something in-line with my rear speakers that makes them fairly quiet compared to the front speakers.. but at the time I was putting the system in, I didn't want to chance making my doors vibrate by opening them up and not getting them cliped back in perfectly.

I can name plenty of girls cars but the Golf ain't one of them ...

- BMW Z3
- Mazda MX5
- Anything by Fiat ....

Be carefull bashing Miata around here, empeg was conceived in one And Fiat makes decent trucks (I mean real trucks), under brand name Iveco, definitelly macho things...

And I'm 6ft 2, 290lbs (on a well needed diet though !)

Phew, so I am not the only one (I beat you by ten or twenty pounds, though, and am still contemplating a diet only in principle)! Call them girly cars or not, but I wouldn't junk a Z3 or Miata (nor Boxter, Merc SLK, one of those newish British toys...) if they somehow fall into my hands (and if I could fit into them ) Actually, I like Z3's retro styling elements (something of its profile reminds me of Triumph Spitfire).

I tend to concur with cartalk.com -- their verdict is *every* VW car is a chick car. Sorry Tony.

Calvin

If you've ever been in a VW GTI that's had any aftermarket engine work done to it (hell, even if it hasn't), you'd more than likely change your tune on that. Those suckers fly.

Loren,

What does performance have to do with chick cars? If a car, regardless of performance or any other criteria, is owned and driven by disproportionately large numbers of women, then it is a CHICK CAR.

Whether it goes 200 miles an hour, or can turn circles on a dime and requires a parachute to stop does not matter. :-)

I'm in no way disparaging chicks or volkswagens. VW's are also named as the top Gay cars. Subarus are named the top Lesbian cars. Which in no way disparages the car or the type of person. It's only to say that it is not as likely to find two lesbians in birkenstocks running the quarter mile in a viper.

For what its worth I like VW's, and I have a feeling I'm driving a chick car myself.

:-D

Calvin

Hmm. When I bought the GTI in 1988, they weren't chick cars. Although I think you could be right about their recent models, I don't think that was the case in '88.

Yep. They were not chick cars back then, they were male pocket rockets. I used to own an 1984 GTI.

Calvin

Yep if I see a Jetta or VW Ill catch up to it and its usually a hot ass chick or a gay looking guy. They just dont have aggressive styling. I like my Integra its nice and manly given to look agressive you need to lower it. But still I love taching her up to 8 grand there is nothing femine about that.

So, does that mean that this is going to be a chick car too?

//matt

Yes, and the best kind of chick, too: The RICH kind.

Isn't that why Volkswagen has the Audi label? Hence, the Bug on the VW label and the TT on the Audi label? If you look at any VW chick car you'll find a matching car in the Audi label. ;-) VW said they will produce the W12, but didn't say what brand it will be. ;-)

Calvin

Do let us know if you find the problem!

I suppose you know, that even if the wires are all hooked + to +, and - to -, there still might be one out of phase. You might try just taking one speaker and swapping the wires to verify that.

One more possible item - check how the speaker is mounted. It should be on a very firm piece of metal. Also, make sure that it is sealed to some extent, so that the wavw out the back doesn't leak out and cancel the wave out of the front. As an example, you know how bad a raw driver sounds sitting in your hand? There may be a little of that at play too.

Let us know what you find out.

Agreed .. the Turbo is no match for Scoobies and the like, but its plenty quick enough.

I can name plenty of girls cars but the Golf ain't one of them ...

- BMW Z3
- Mazda MX5
- Anything by Fiat ....

Obviously haven't driven a Fiat Coupe 20V Turbo then...
Ray

Rio 20Gb soon to be installed in Fiat Coupe 20V Turbo

VW said they will produce the W12, but didn't say what brand it will be. ;-)

It will indeed have a VW emblem on the front. Theyre trying to elevate the brand image.