I'm not sure what the future of empeg is, but it appears to have reletively failed due to its high price. There's no question that it's a high quality player, but is it worth $1500? Maybe so, but how many people are willing to pay that much for an mp3 player? Probably less than empeg would like. So how could you make the empeg more worthy of $1500 without drastically increasing the cost of production? Are any of you empeg guys reading this? The answer is programming. It's free- it only takes time and creativity (assuming you have the knowhow). Some suggestions:

- a GPS or compatibility with a GPS- I see that somebody's already working on one

- able to hook up to a cellphone and log on the internet- check stocks, sports, headlines, etc.

- able to hook up certain electronic gauges for your car such as oil pressure, mpg calculations, rpm's- I don't know how possible (or cheap) this would be.

- a personal organiZer

- Everytime it boots up, have it chime "em-peg" - kind of like when you'd start Sonic the Hedgehog on the Sega and it would chime "Se-ga".

- Have it navigate and drive your car for you- it can't be that hard, can it?

Wow! Now that we have all the answers, restart production! I look forward to seeing your solutions to all of these suggestions.

Yz33d,

First of all do us a favor and search around the BBS; there are tons of discussions on this topic, particularly from "Rob" who is one of the HMFIC's at Empeg. He has been very open on this topic and the topic of features and future direction at SB. Actually, start by reading the FAQ at riocar.org and go from there.

Second, you're mixing apples and oranges here. As far as the pricing goes, its much more complicated than just "the price is too high". I don't think the Empeg team passed the crack pipe around and one fine day said lets charge $1500. Determining price is a trickly game between what your expected revenue , profit margins (which is a function of costs), and what the market is willing to bear. There are other factors as well, but these are the main one that companies base their go/no-go decisions. After you have considered all of that, then take a few hits on the crack pipe...
Also, I think there were other factors besides marketing and price that determined EOL of the Empeg. Again, check around the BBS.

As far as new features are concerned I think we'll see many more brilliant things from the Empeg Engineering team in the future. Stay tuned!!

--Andrew

Considering that there are currently 30,000 posts in the 'General' section alone, it's kinda hard to know where to start.

I still think that the only drawback to the empeg is the price (before the reduction). The price should drop over time, assuming that they will sell the empeg in the future, since it came way before its time. In fact, the price has dropped; look at what you could have gotten a 6GB for way back when and what you could get a 60GB for before the clearance.

I think you might not have been keeping up with recent events over the last, ooooh, 12 months or so.

1. Empeg was sold to SONICblue

2. The basic price was then $999

3. Followed by $699

4. We started work on the next generation

5. It was decided to move to a licencing model, to penetrate the 12V market

6. The Rio Car was EOL'd

7. Stock was cleared at $199

8. Isn't it exciting to be wondering what might be coming next!

Rob

A good place to start would be the FAQ over on http://www.riocar.org

or read robs summary above :-)

Yeah, you're right, I'm a beginner. Thanks for the history lesson. So are y'all working on Mark III or what?

I am desperately trying to search for the point of this post. How is the price of the Empeg a year ago relevant to any of what you're talking about here? Are you complaining about a supposed lack of development projects on the Empeg (even though one of them already exists, and another is in planning)?

When you say "you Empeg guys" are you talking about the designers and developers of the product and the player software (Empeg Ltd) or the many 3rd party developers? I hope it's the latter. If you're questioning why they didn't release a product that replaced a PDA, GPS, cell phone, and laptop computer, AND was the best car MP3 player at the time (and still is several years later) you're an ungrateful prick. If you're upset with the fact that these applications don't exist yet, why don't you fire up a Linux box and start hacking?

I apologize for being rude here, but these guys have developed the best car audio product in the world, and you're upset that it doesn't play MP3's AND jerk you off. Worst of all, you bought it for less than it cost to make.

4. We started work on the next generation

5. It was decided to move to a licencing model, to penetrate the 12V market

Doesnt that answer your question?

There will be no "Mark III" per se. Before you stick your foot in your mouth again and attack Empeg for not making a MkIII, please read the FAQ which will explain the whole situation.

True, over time prices drop. But, I would still be willing to pay the same $1800 2 yrs later for increased features and functionality. Take an already kick-ass product and make it even more kick-ass. Its all about "value proposition", perhaps another lesson learned from the Empeg experience. Every marketing machine needs to focus the potential customer on what you actually get for you hard earned $1800. Once you have a great product, its ALL about the marketing babee!!, not to mention solid distribution, post-sales support, etc.

Anyway, playing the niche market especially at the high end as the Empeg, is a tough game, very tough game.
--Andrew

yn0t_,

The price a of a 6GB model long ago is relevant, because I was demonstrating how the prices dropped. No, I am not complaining about any lacking of development projects; perhaps your imagination took over while reading my post.

When I said "empeg guys", I meant the actual guys at the empeg company, although I welcome and appreciate 3rd party developments. I did not question why they "didn't release a product that replaced a PDA, GPS, cell phone, and laptop computer". And no I'm not upset that my empeg doesn't drive your car for you or "jerk you off", else I wouldn't have bought it. I was only trying to make a few harmless suggestions. I hope this clears things up for you, yn0t_.

amaximow,

Yeah, I would have been willing to pay $1800, too- if I had the money. While the empeg is worth $1800 to me, you, and many other people, I don't think it is as practical to the general consumer. But there's no question that if you decided to shell out the big bucks on the empeg, you got the best of the best. It's like a Ferarri, while it's worth the money, if you had $300,000 you'd have more important things to spend it on than all on one car.

Are any of you empeg guys reading this? The answer is programming. It's free- it only takes time and creativity (assuming you have the knowhow).

How the hell do you work out that programming is free? I certainly get paid every month.

There's no question that it's a high quality player, but is it worth $1500?

Well, considering that it costs a significant fraction of that to make one (not including the software -- but that's free, right?), then in material costs alone, yes it is worth that.

Well once you have the software, you have it. It's free to manufacture per player. Or actually you'd take the amount of money you spent on programming and divide it by the number of players sold and you have the cost of programming per player, right?

Let me clarify something, when I say "worth" I mean per person. If someone is willing to pay $50,000 for a player than that player is worth $50,000 to that person. Certainly it was worth $1500 to everyone who paid that much for it. It was only worth $400 to me at this time (or probably a couple hundred higher) cause that's what I was willing to pay. That doesn't mean I appreciate my player less; I just had higher priorities, like getting a car. Yes, I bought a car player with no car.

For Yz33d, I have just one question at this time:

Do you own one of the car players?

To everyone else:

Jeez, go easy on the guy. If he doesn't have a player yet, forgive him for not knowing the history of the company and not having a complete appreciation for the product yet. If he does have a player, give him a few days to mess with it.

Yeah, I just got it in wednesday. 30 GB

a few harmless suggestions

Next time you make a few harmless suggestions, it'd be nice if you first read the FAQ to make sure you know what you're talking about.

And my imagination did NOT take over. You were saying that there was a lack of features on the Empeg, and it wasn't worth $1500 to the average consumer. Don't try to back off that point now that it's been made clear that's not the case. You said the Empeg failed due to its high price, as if they could have set the price lower and actually made a profit. Again, when you sell a product for less than it cost to make, it's pretty hard to make up for that on volume!

Incidentally, Empeg was not targeting the "average consumer" (whoever that is) because the average consumer is generally happy with a CD-MP3 player that plays CDR's. The product was way ahead of its time, cost a LOT to develop, hence the price. If you read up on the history of Empeg Ltd. before the SonicBlue takeover, I think you'd realize they did God's work just to get the product out given the resources, and the small batches they needed to make since it was such a niche market further complicated this.

Just enjoy your player, enjoy the fact that you got it at a bargain, and be patient about new whiz-bang features. In terms of shoddy marketing and what-not, what's done is done, and the product is what it is.

Yz33d, Roger is one of the main Empeg programmers. I'm not sure what your trying to gain from this post. But in no way is the software for this player free!

Have you compared 1.03 of the player/emplode software to 2.0b7, the difference is like an entirely NEW player! Do you think the software wrote itself! Maybe you should play with your new toy instead of talking trash about the team that original developed this kick ass player!

I had a Neo originally because I didn't feel the empeg was worth it, had I ever seen one I would NEVER have bought the crappy Neo.

Please find something constructive to talk about or don't say anything at all. And yes if you have the money for a Ferarri you probably have enough money to buy anything you desire.

Tony, when someone new posts "hi I'm new and I'd like to know why the Empeg doesn't have this and that" or whatever, we're generally very kind to them. However, yd33d came on and started two threads. One was discussing the historically high price of the player (like it matters now), and the other (this thread) says that the Empeg team could have somehow "saved the Empeg product" if they had included GPS, a personal organizer, and an OBD-II car diagnostic out-of-the-box. As if fingers could be snapped together to make that happen, and not raise the cost beyond what he said was too high of a price for the average consumer.

He also said he's been following the product since before SonicBlue took over, so I assumed he had a little more knowledge than your average new user. Apparently not the case, so yeah, I'll cut some slack. But I'm SICK of these people coming on and blasting Empeg for this and that when there is ZERO SonicBlue money going towards the Empeg now, yet we magically get new features from them. There have been at least five threads around here with people bellyaching about the beta releases and what-not, and it's gotten out of hand. And this guy wants GPS for free.

Or actually you'd take the amount of money you spent on programming and divide it by the number of players sold and you have the cost of programming per player, right?

OK. So if we'd sold more players, the programming would have been "cheaper". On that point, I'll agree. But it's by no means "free", no matter how you slice it.

In short, I think you're seriously underestimating the effort that went into programming the player application, and that hurts slightly. Hell, it hurts a lot.

Anyway, enjoy your new toy. I hope you have as much fun using it as we had developing it. Hopefully, in time, you'll see why some people think it's worth $1500.

Yes, I bought a car player with no car.

I'd been working at empeg for over a year before I even learnt to drive -- this is nothing new .

Fasttrack,

Exaclty where did I "talk trash" about the empeg? No, really, I'm curious to know.

yn0t_

Are you gonna keep putting words in my mouth after every post? Let me repeat what I said and see if you can understand the second time around.

I did not say there was a lack of features. I said that there could be more, which, as far as I know, Empeg plans to make more in the future. You can put more features on Lamborghini- it doesn't mean it's lacking. And if there won't be any more, I'll be perfectly happy.

I said the empeg "relatively failed", as in being discontinued by Rio. It did not fail in the quality department if that is what you are perceiving. And I did not say that they should set the price lower than it cost to make. That would be retarded. Speaking of retarded...nevermind.

And yes, I believe that many potential customers were turned off by the price, even if it cost that much to make. To deny this is to deny the truth.

To clear things up, I love my empeg, it's the highest quality player you can find, and I sincerely hope you can calm down and relax, yn0t_. No hard feelings.

Roger,

I guess I may have underestimated it a tad. The only thing I can program is Basic.

The real flaw in your logic is that these new features cost money because they need to be developed, and that would add cost. You can't make the things you were talking about happen and keep the cost of the unit the same. Some of the features of other Rio products will snake their way into the Empeg player. Others will be done on programmers' own time out of their own desire to see neat things appear on the Empeg.

As Roger has said above, you are seriously underestimating the cost that went into the Empeg car product, costs which ultimately led to, as you say, a product that couldn't appeal to the mass market. But it wasn't ever *intended* to appeal to the mass market. The one thing that made it appeal to the mass market was the giant sell-off, and obviously that wasn't done to sustain the product, rather, to decomission it. I am not denying any truth about the price, it definitely did turn a lot of people off, but there was no other choice in the matter. PLEASE tell me you understand that by now.

You're right, no hard feelings, but no matter how much you go back on what you said or accuse me of putting words in your mouth, your post was out of line considering the costs involved in developing the product. I'll chalk it up to a lack of understanding and hope that as you become more informed, you'll realize things happened the way they did for a reason.

Welcome to the BBS. Sorry we got off on the wrong foot.

My initial post was not intended to be malicious in any way. If anyone took it that way then so be it. See it as you like. Hey I'm an American, I believe in freedom of speech. But I still think the right to bear arms is more important, because if you have a gun then you can say whatever you want anyways. I'm still pushing for the 28th amendment though (for dyslexic folk)- 'The Right to Arm Bears'. But yeah, no hard feelings. We all love the empeg anyways....

I'm an american, and I would like to state that I believe in the right to arm bears.

The right to carry a gun (in the US) extends only to the protection of yourself (in your home) and against a tyrranical government. Not to say whatever you want with the backing of a threat..

God bless America.

God sneezed on america. God bless you God.

"The right to carry a gun (in the US) extends only to the protection of yourself (in your home) and against a tyrranical government. Not to say whatever you want with the backing of a threat.. "

But what are you gonna do about it if I have a gun? Well I guess you could call the cops.........if I don't shoot you first. Besides, I was only kidding.

i can't take it anymore! please to everyone that has contributed to this particular thread ---- just take a deep breath, remember how the empeg community is one of the more sophisticated ones out there, and let it go. I understand everyone's frustrations, but lets just drop this entire subject, tell people who have questions about the empeg that have already been discussed to go and read the FAQ, and just ignore the 'slander' --(if that is what it was). I know that everyone on this board is passionate about it, but that is no reason to lose one's cool.

ok then. can we try and be a bit more productive?

//matt

We did drop it, right before you got here.

Thanks for the voice of reason, though.

but that is no reason to lose one's cool

lose our ...never!