I heard a rumor today that Rio is going to discontinue the Empeg because its not making any money on them. Not enough sales or something like that. Any truth to any of this?

So what's the source for this info of demise?
I just looked up Cartoys inventory & theyre out of stock on rio-cars, may not mean anything. No I haven't heard anything past the v2.0 software mentioned or nothing of Voice Recognition has been talked about or updated as to when it'll be out but I'm hoping theyre just busy getting them done.

#695-Mk2/8 colors-12Gig/TUNER- awaits v2.x & Voice Recog.

if they are planning on doing that it would have been pretty stupid of them to have wasted the money having the tuners made and further devoping software

32Gig MK2 In 2001 VW Golf TDI

I heard a rumor today that Rio is going to discontinue the Empeg because its not making any money on them. Not enough sales or something like that. Any truth to any of this?

I certainly hope not, but this looks like a typical reaction of a panicked company made up by aquisitions of everybody and his brother and incapable of integrating its aquisitions and making them make money in reasonable time ('redundancies', as Rob put it, are another typical reaction [1].)

If they do decide to discontinue it, perhaps they could sell it for a song (perhaps a few shares of their not so valuable stock) to a certain group of people across the pond . Now, if those people succeed in raising a pound or two of venture capital [2], we could almost be in old good days again [3].

Dragi "Bonzi" Raos
Zagreb, Croatia
Q#5196, MkII#80000376, 18GB green

[1] It's funny how companies decide to save by laying people off. Take Boeing in the aftermath of WTC tragedy: they decided to lay off 30000 people, but don't know yet from which units. That means that the thing does not begin with "Let's see whom we can do without, and who is going to have nothing to do due to such-and-such changes in the market", but simply "Let's cut payroll expenses by $75zillion".

[2] I was investigating venture capital market recently, and it is hillarious. A British company, for example, recently rose quite an amount for launching a ground-breaking service: each subscriber to Cosmopolitan is going to get a daily advice on achieving better orgasm over SMS (advice, not orgasm). (OK, so it was just one of services; the idea is that sponsors would pay them to pester sponsor's clients with just a little more that thinly disguised SMS spam.)

[3] What worries me is that empeg is not Hugo's first project. What if he decides to switch to gardening, hot air balooning, running a retaurant or rock band...

Given the level of investment that Rio has made to:

a) Acquire empeg Ltd.
b) re-engineer the Mk2A player
c) develop the V2.0 software (yes, it exists)
d) add it to the inventory in bulk stock
e) set up a sales arrangement in two countries (even if there are hiccups)
f) re-engineer and produce the tuner module
g) hire specialist staff specifically to work on the introduction of VR
h) allocate an advertising budget to publicise it widely
i) enter into a re-sale agreement with a major car Hi-Fi chain

- and numerous other reasons, don't you think that this is just a teensy-weensy bit unlikely? Oops - forgive me; my scepticism's showing here.

I would really like to hear the source of this "rumour". Suffice to say, it is just that - a rumour - until we actually see a cancellation happen.


One of the few remaining Mk1 owners... #00015

Where on earth did you hear this?

One of the few remaining Mk1 owners... #00015

I will repeat the question everyone else is asking: What is your source for this rumor?

___________
Tony Fabris

A dealer told me. They sell Rio Car in their store and they even had one guy buy a large number of units recently based on this rumor.

From what I have seen, dealers are not to be trusted. They are usually much less intelligent and informed than 95% of the people that frequent this board. I have had dealers tell me absolutley anything to sell stuff.

One thing I was wondering though, how come the number of registered users on this board has not continued to increase as fast as it used to? Are the Roicar owners not as likely to view this board as the empegers? Or are sales really slowing?

Alex Lear

One thing I was wondering though, how come the number of registered users on this board has not continued to increase as fast as it used to? Are the Roicar owners not as likely to view this board as the empegers? Or are sales really slowing?

I'ts about time to think about MK3. That should be cheaper to manufacture. Maybe you should move production to Estonia. I guess Elcoteq Tallinn would be glad to have new client. They had to fire a lot of people when they lost Ericsson as a client. They are good at manufactureing high-tec stuff. They make stuff for lot of major companies like Nokia and etc (includeing mobile phones).

Veiko
veiko@lc.ee

MK1 #317 - 20GB green

Well, not to substantiate his claim or anything. As far as I'm concerned it is just a rumor. But this is a VERY reputable car audio dealer/installer. I am having them install my Empeg and there was no reason for him to make something up. I already own an Empeg. We still haven't heard a peep from anyone at Empeg refuting this rumor by the way.

Rob???
any comments?
I can't stand rumors.
Can you disspell this one??
Say it isn't so.

12Gb MKII 080000516 Blue

Sounds like a romour started to increase sales. One guy buys a number of them based on this 'fact'? It's obvious this guy doesn't know what he's talking about. The empeg/Riocar is more about software development not just pushing boxes out the door. Sure there is more in development costs so far but when all the planned functions are implemented, the boxes will just flow out (provided the distribution network allows it ).

Murray
Go-Wit-Da-Fro

Folks, unless you work for Empeg or Rio...any opinion you spout about whether or not Rio or Empeg would ever discontinue our beloved MP3 car player is PURE speculation. Can someone from Empeg or Rio please confirm or deny this rumor?

As I said before, this particular dealer is VERY reputable. They regularly do $50,000 and $80,000 car stereo installs on a regular basis. They have a monthly add that runs in the Robbs Report. There is little or no incentive for them to "make up" a rumor like that...particularly to me since I already have an Empeg. If they told me this rumor...its because they heard it somewhere else. So maybe its a rumor and maybe not. But I sure would like to hear what someone from the factory has to say about it.

Not to substantiate or refute this, but as a couple of added data points:

1.) SonicBLUE laid off (n>1) people this past week, including some folks in Cambridge (Rob was not among them, as he sent me e-mail after the fact, but it is a fact that such has happened, unless he made that up)

2.) Nobody (so far) from Empeg/Rio/SB crew has spoken up at all on this topic. While silence is not necessarily "symptomatic of truth", it is a reality that they're really good (historically) at shooting down FALSE rumors, and keeping their mouths shut when a rumor has a hint of truth in it (because of very understandable confidentiality issues they face as employees of said company).

My only hope is that, if the RioCar is headed for the coulda-been pile, that the code will get released to the world so that the hackers among us can play with all the stuff that the companies will have decided isn't worth their time and money.

Of course, I really hope the rumor is completely false, of course, that goes without saying.

D

My only hope is that, if the RioCar is headed for the coulda-been pile, that the code will get released to the world so that the hackers among us can play with all the stuff that the companies will have decided isn't worth their time and money.

Something to consider: Even if there's any truth to that particular rumor, it wouldn't mean that there won't be any more products without Empeg code. Sonic Blue bought the team and their talent, and it's no secret that they have far-reaching plans for their software. Since the player/database code is their bread and butter, the odds of a GPL release are pretty slim no matter what happens.

Hell, even is Sonic Blue folded completely, the team would probably start another company or find some other way to make use of the existing code base. It's too useful and valuable for them to give it up now.

___________
Tony Fabris

True, but there are certainly portions of the code that could get released to the users without really treading too far on the "stuff that does make money"... the upgrade client, emplode, etc.

I think you are unlikely to ever get any of the player (Linux) code GPL'd . That is the stuff that makes the money IMHO - has a shared code base with devices such as the RioReceiver, for example, and isn't the embedded Linux device market where it's at these days? That stuff is what is valuable.

(list 6284, Mk1 S/N 00299 4GB blue [for sale]. Mk2 S/N 080000094 26GB blue)

1) Three programmers were lost from Cambridge the week before last - Haydn Fidler, Andrew Evans and Nathan Johnson. In total 90 people were let go throughout the SONICblue group, as each of the individual holdings were amalgamated into one operating company. The former empeg team are now the Audio Applications Software team, within the SONICblue Engineering department.

2) Nobody from Cambridge has spoken on this subject because it was only raised yesterday (Sunday) and believe it or not we don't always read the BBS at weekends. At least three of us were busy getting extremely wasted on a nice beach on the south coast.

I'll post a full response in a few minutes.

Rob

In reply to:

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I'll post a full response in a few minutes.

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Erhmm.. doe not sound too good... well, the 'F5'-key has never been used so frequently, I think...
why does Rob post a "full response"... must be something true about the rumour

Frank

Mk2 40GB #090000592

Hey, Tony, say something!! Rob Schofield??? Hello?? Read Rob's Thread?? Well, was it a nice adventure...

Frank

[edit]F*U*C*K*O*F*F* *S*O*N*I*C*B*L*U*E! You killed it![/edit]

Mk2 40GB #090000592

Edited by Ionic on 24/09/01 04:14 PM.

OT:

[1] It's funny how companies decide to save by laying people off. Take Boeing in the aftermath of WTC tragedy: they decided to lay off 30000 people, but don't know yet from which units. That means that the thing does not begin with "Let's see whom we can do without, and who is going to have nothing to do due to such-and-such changes in the market", but simply "Let's cut payroll expenses by $75zillion".

The 30,000 jobs (its actually closer to 31,000) all come from the commercial aircraft division. They are mostly the line workers (no engineers as far as I can tell so far) and the 'shared services group' (still haven't figured out exactly what they do besides IT support) that support them. So the jobs are being cut directly from the component that is affected right now, the Military Aircraft and Missiles division is as strong as ever.

And now back your your regularly scheduled program...

I don't think saying "you killed it" is correct; yes, there will be no more mk2a players made - but there are still plenty available.

The issue is more that the car audio aftermarket is both very competitive and brand sensitive; the investment required to produce a player that is as "finished" (to a consumer's eye) as the top-line brands such as Sony, Kenwood & Alpine is huge - these companies have been incrementally improving their designs, tooling and mechanisms over decades.

What we bring to the party is great software and board-level designs; it's far more logical for us to work with people who *already* make head units (and as such have the mechanicals completely sorted, plus distribution and sales channels) and provide the complex software know-how. This way, the end products are much better.

We're not leaving the car market; all the announcement says is that a Rio-branded mk3 isn't going to happen and the mk2a has now become a limited edition. We're all still here, working on various things including car software - the current product is a great showcase for our software talents.

So, anyone who was holding off getting a rio-car expecting a mk3 to appear - buy now :)

Hugo

So, should I take the plunge and buy now or wait for what will be produced in the future? Will I be able to get a better device than the Mk2 in, say, one year, at a lower cost or is this head unit so ahead of its time that it will take five years or more for something equally advanced to hit the market?

This reminds me somewhat of Apple's Newton, a PDA with advanced hand-writing recognition, which has been hardly matched by today's 32MB-MP3-playing, hi-color screen hand-helds - more than three and a half years after the Newton was abandoned by Apple.

Georg

You're unlikely to be able to get something as full-featured (and usable both at home and in-car) from anyone else in the forseeable future. You're very unlikely to be able to buy something which is as tweakable, or which has features such as ethernet and a readily available shell prompt.

The reason why the above is unlikely is that things like the empeg-car don't often make it past accountants; our secret was to get Steve brainwashed early on :)

Both Pioneer and Sony have shown consumer in-car jukeboxes which will be launched next year; neither has the organisational flexibility of the empeg-car. Neither can be used at home. Neither has ethernet. Both may well have many SDMI-esque restrictions - but both are usable without needing a PC, and have amps and tuners onboard. From what I've seen, both will also be more expensive than the empeg-car.

I can't say that something else won't come out - technology moves onwards constantly. If you wait a year, you will have been missing out for a year on what many users have (and love) now.

Hugo

Buy it now... I never regretted getting my empeg. Or to make myself more clear on both our native language:

"Schwing' Deinen Hintern hoch und sieh zu, dass Du noch schnell so ein geniales Gerät bekommst!!

Bye
Frank

Mk2 40GB #090000592

In terms of post-warranty repair it looks like we may need to create a "Hugo Fund" to ensure someone is around to repair our broken mk2's once our warranty is up. A lot of early empeg consumers are approaching the end of their warranty.

I don't want to have to shell out the money for a "spare" mk2, but I'm worried about what may happen down the road. I just know that I couldn't live without mine.

-Kit

Ironically, we expect the userbase to more than double within a couple of months because of this announcement. Without the incentive of a looming EOL the players have simply not been selling.

We're disappointed that there will not be another empeg style car product, but had there had been any demand for such a thing this wouldn't have happened. We have to consider that empeg may have gone out of business at this stage, whereas most of the team (including all of the original empeg people) are still here and working on some very cool SONICblue products.

Rob

We will be keeping plenty of spares, though it's very unusual for whole boards to suffer unfixable problems - usually it's a case of a connector needing to be replaced or a buffer chip swapped.

Displays are more fragile, but again we will try to ensure that there is replacement stock available for quite a while yet.

Hugo

Don't you mean "stronger than ever" with what is going on at the moment?

(list 6284, Mk1 S/N 00299 4GB blue [for sale]. Mk2 S/N 080000094 26GB blue)