The live coverage has started! Here's some links for anyone interested in watching the live blogs. I still don't understand why they refuse to let people do streaming video of this, or just put out their own live stream, but at least there are good sources doing coverage. My favorites are:

Engadget
GDGT

Both sites will let you do auto refresh, so that's nice.

So, what does everyone think of the announcements?

iPhone 4, quad band HSDPA/HSUPA, interesting... no mention of what frequencies, but maybe this means T-Mobile coming soon.

The screen sounds interesting. 960x640, IPS, 326 dpi, same 3.5 inch screen size.

Most interesting is that AT&T is giving something of a grace period to let existing iPhone users upgrade even if their contract doesn't expire for another six months. Would you like a tasty new phone? Sure, it's still stuck to AT&T, but isn't it nice?

I just want to know what the next round of Android phones will be about. Certainly somebody's got something extra cool in works to compete with the iPhone 4. Right? Please?

Video chat, but WiFi only for now, and also only iPhone 4 to iPhone 4 for now. Really surprised it didn't also work with iChat on the desktop out of the gate. Thats the biggest disappointment for an old coworker.

PDF support added to iBooks is nice. I bought GoodReader for my iPad for PDF viewing, and it's ok at best.

I'll have to digest the rest of the news later.

It is nice, and I can't possibly complain that they're doing that. I would, on the other hand, question what the purpose of the two year contract would be in that case. Why not make it 18 months for all phones?


This will be the most interesting question to me. The way I see it is that Apple has clearly grabbed victory. But I can't help but thinking it was almost from the jaws of defeat.

I do think that the rest of the industry is still behind Apple's hardware, but seeing the improvements they've made over the last year, I tend to think they're closing ground.

That said, the iPhone 4 is clearly the best specced phone on the market. I still have to have my Android phone, but I won't deny that the 4 is the best phone [hardware] out there.

*edit*
I just read my post over again, and I don't mean to come off so negative on the new iPhone. I honestly think it's extremely impressive. That screen resolution will be incredible, and it's great that they have HD video recording now. As usual, the build quality is astounding, and as they always do, the new industrial design somehow makes the old design look like poo. So no, I'm not sour on the new phone at all.

One thing I'm a tiny bit sour on is FaceTime. I think it's very neat, and I have no doubt it will work well, but to disagree with Steve, I don't think it will be revolutionary until its usable over cell networks. Also, did they mention if the front facing camera would be usable by other applications? Limiting video chat to only iPhone 4 to iPhone 4 blows.

*edit 2*
Interesting, "We're going to make FaceTime an open industry standard." That surprises me. That's certainly better than it could have been. I wonder how soon that would be able to spread to Windows, Android, and other platforms. If you could get a FaceTime app for the EVO, that would be pretty cool...

That's really the only other possibility, isn't it? I've listened to several podcasts in the last week, and was astonished by what sounded like an assumption that Jobs would announce a partnership with another carrier today. What amazed me even more was that T-Mobile, which is at least another GSM carrier, wasn't even mentioned as a possibility. Personally, I don't think Apple will EVER release a CDMA iPhone in the US. Like others have said here, they'll wait to see how 4G shakes out.

I tend to think it's a little unlikely that the iPhone will show up on T-Mobile either. Aren't there any other countries that use T-Mobile's 3G frequencies, though? Perhaps that's why they're adding those to the radio.


ps-oh, and I totally called it that it wouldn't be the iPhone 4G. There was no way Apple would release a 4G phone, so calling it that would have been a disaster. Frankly, looking at the pace of 4G rollout in the US, and the power issues it causes, I'd be surprised if the iPhone 5 was a 4G phone.

Looks like T-Mobile is still out. From the iPhone 4 spec page : UMTS/HSDPA/HSUPA (850, 900, 1900, 2100 MHz)

Heres the common 3G bands and where they are used:


Maybe iPhone 5 will go with penta-band.

How many times have we seen video calls being pimped out as the next big thing? I just don't get it, I really don't see this as a big selling point at all. It's going to be a feature that very few people actually use I would guess. A few years ago I was given a video phone to trial for BT (fixed line over ADSL) and was given unlimited calls and a whole bunch of people I knew also had them to try it out, almost every time we ended up turning the video off as it was just pointless, who the hell wants to see my ugly mug while having a chat? If I wanted to do that I go around and sit on your sofa.

Other than that it looks great, I'm getting one just so I don't have to put up with that stupid silence switch on the 3G, I have missed so many calls because of that daft switch!

I also hope it fits my TomTom car kit that I have just hard wired to my car.

Cheers

Cris.

Nothing too shocking regarding the iPhone 4. Most of Apple's thunder was taken by the leaks not that its a massive number of changes. Still, nice phone and the thin aspect is quite nice.

What Cris said about video calls. I tried video calls when I first got a 3G phone with video call capability. Picture quality was pretty bad but that wasn't what put me off. I don't really need or want to see the other person and the same for them regarding me.

Everybody I know with a phone that is capable of video calls just uses it once where they call somebody go wow video call! wave a few times and then never again.

That said, I do know a few people who do the whole webcam thing with Skype so maybe there is a market for this particular feature. The current limitation of only iPhone to iPhone and no integration with iChat is a bit strange though but that'll eventually change.

What is a little puzzling is the usage of the metal band as the antenna. Does it have some sort of tough but transparent insulating layer on it? I wouldn't want to be grasping the actual antenna with my hand and putting it up against my head.

The added gyro is a sign that Apple are taking the idea of the iPhone (and next iPod I assume) as a gaming platform seriously.

It does seem a little late in the day to add a front facing camera. Nevertheless, I was quite surprised to find my new all singing all dancing work phone (HTC Touch HD2) didn't have one.

While I've found the iPhone easy to resist up 'till now, partly due to only being available on o2. By the time it came to Orange I knew I wanted one but decided to wait for the next revision since the 3GS was such a damp squib. I'm going to pre order one with Orange as soon as the page on their website goes live.

Video chat is a big thing for me, since I live away from my family now. Currently we tend to only do it on special events like someones birthday. Removing the laptop as a requirement would be really nice.

It's interesting that for now it's WiFi only, but in time that will change with 4G for sure. Over 3G, it's only going to work on AT&T and T-Mobile here in the US, since it's still routing voice over the normal cellular network. Makes me wonder if this is another big reason the iPhone isn't on Verizon and Sprint. I'm sure Apple had this in development for a while.

So do you think it will over a year before it'll be possible to use FaceTime from the next iPhone off of WiFi? I wonder if there's any possibility that AT&T will allow it over their 3G network, possibly at lower quality.

By the way, was there any talk about tethering today?

It will likely be enabled over 3G before formal 4G rollouts occur. Even though 4G isn't here yet, I'm betting AT&T and others are already trying to increase the bandwidth to each tower in preparation for LTE, and that will have the effect of allowing more 3G traffic as well, assuming limited wireless spectrum isn't also a problem in the area.

And no talk about tethering today. As pointed out elsewhere, it's been built into the OS since 3.0. It's up to AT&T now.

Where's the 64GB iPhone? Every year they've doubled the capacity until now. Thanks Apple!

Stu

Yeah, no 64GB was the only disappointment for me.

From looking at the pictures of the innards I think they've used every available bit of space for the battery. As a result the motherboard is tiny. ISTR someone (maybe Hugo) saying that reason why the iPod touch always had twice the capacity was because it had space for 2 NAND chips as it lacked the all the phone related innards whereas the iPhone only had space for 1 NAND chip. Maybe the affordable chips aren't dense enough yet.

For me, extra battery life is probably going to be more important than storage space. While 32GB isn't cavernous it's going to be just enough since I still have a couple of GB left on my 32GB touch.

But the fifth band supported by the chipset isn't the 1700MHz required by AWS, it's 800MHz. It's also unfortunate for Canadians, because the two newest mobile operators up here, like T-Mobile, also use AWS.

Bell, Rogers and Telus have been involved in price fixing in the Canadian market for years, There may as well be only a single provider in Canada. The Canadian ruling body for telecom, the CRTC, has always been happy to help these companies crush Canadian consumers.

Good news for people in New Zealand though. The new iPhone does 900MHz too.

My wife talks to friends in Florida on Skype quite a bit. It is amusing to me to watch them. In a 25 minute phone call, at least 15 minutes of it will be spent fiddling with Skype ("OK, now do you see the picture?", "Move over to your right a bit. No, your other right.", "What happens if you click on the [whatever] button, does that help?" and so forth.

The really funny part is, we have an Ooma box, and can talk to them on regular telephone absolutely for free.

tanstaafl.

I actually want the new iPhone, but I also don't care about the second camera - I've yet to use the built-in camera on my MBP in over a year of ownership. The thing holding me back, more than anything else, is the inability to go to an Apple store, drop $500 and pick up a fully unlocked device.

I simply won't sign a service contract with any of the three companies operating in Canada to get an iPhone. And even lawfully and ethically getting around the contracts (it's easy to do), you're still left with a locked device (even after having paid full price for it courtesy of an ETF or similar). I don't think one should have to jailbreak and unlock a phone via a hack after buying it outright.

It's about time we had legislation in place to prevent network lock-in for devices that have lapsed contracts or have been bought out.

Buying one in another country isn't a solution either, because unlike every other product Apple currently produces and sells, iPhone warranties are only valid in the country of sale. Ugh.

You sure? I'm pretty sure the ones you can buy in Hong Kong are warrantied worldwide (the generic warranty doc says "apple may restrict coverage to country of purchase", not "does restrict").

Hugo

Interesting. Buying one from Hong Kong is still a sketchy process, but interesting nonetheless. Any tips on how one might get this point clarified? The ambiguity in the statement is still an issue - I'm not one to gamble when someone else holds all the cards.

Maybe you can pass along the info that some customers are very much interested in an unlocked iPhone sold by Apple directly, like al their other products, at their standard markup.

Unless you're going to Hong Kong, in which case it's easy (you don't even need to leave the airport). You could try calling Apple HK at 800-908-988 (sales support number on the website) to ask.

Selling unlocked phones in HK is pretty much intending them for a worldwide market. Lots of people travel through there.

I'm sure apple are aware that buying unlocked iPhones direct is something that people are interested in but I'm guessing that carrier contracts prohibit that in many countries... hence the countries where this actually happens are few and far between (Italy and HK are the only two off the top of my head, though Australia might be one too)

I did a little bit of reading, and Hong Kong does seem like the cheapest place to buy a full-price iPhone, with the bonus being it's unlocked. Prices in the US and Canada are higher and the phones locked. The prices for legitimately unlocked phones elsewhere (New Zealand, Australia and UK) are also considerably higher.

I'm surprised Deal Extreme isn't reselling them with a $100 markup and free shipping.

Yep, unlocked phones can be bought in Australia. A coworker here bought his 3GS when he was down there on vacation specifically to get an unlocked unit.

In case not everyone here reads The Oatmeal...

In case you missed the update to the other thread, unlocked phones are now also being sold by Apple in the UK, France and Canada. The prices are insanely high. For Canada, I've only yet seen the 8GB 3GS price.

Unlocked phones with no contract attached to them are generally always extremely expensive here in the UK so the prices published by Apple aren't particularly unusual IMO.

They're always extremely expensive everywhere. Hardware parts cost breakdowns on the iPhone 3GS came to about $175. Obviously there's also cost in included accessories, packaging, shipping, and development time. You gotta figure that at least doubles that cost. Call it $400 of expense on Apple's part. So you're probably talking about 55% markup. Bad, but not as bad as some other consumer items.

They aren't insanely high, they work out cheaper over 18 months than the contract phones (or at least they do on some tariffs).

They aren't even insanely high compared to the iPad prices, in fact the 32GB iPhone is exactly the same as the 32GB iPad (and I'm sure the iPhone 4 costs no less to make than the iPad). They are basically the same price as the 3G/3GS was at launch (or at least close).

Sure I'd like to pay less, but why exactly do you think they are insanely high ?

They are of course high compared to the HTCs and Blackberrys, which you can get "free" on some relatively low tariffs. But that isn't news. The iPhone is 25%-30% more pricey that the "equivalent" phones from other people. But then I, and I suspect you, don't think they are equivalent at all

Because 887 dollars is a lot of fucking money?

"Markup" over BOM and accessories, exclusive of software, on the iPhone is much higher than 55%.

Many people don't look at the cost to develop the software/OS when places like iSuppli do an analysis. It's an extremely important aspect of pricing a product because those costs need to be amortized and recouped, while still making a healthy profit. However, these development costs don't break down per unit in a manufacturing business. The more units you sell, the better you can thin out those expenses.

The prices for the iPhone are more expensive than the iPad here in Canada. I don't know how much the iPad costs in the UK. Also, on contract, you're going to pay large monthly fees even with a throw-away phone from the Canadian providers (or if you provide your own phone). You're definitely coming out ahead on the subsidized price.

It's going to be interesting to see the updated prices in Hong Kong for comparison.

And no, an iPhone as a personal-use item is not worth $880 to me.

Had the iPhone stayed on o2 only but was available unlocked direct from Apple, I'd probably have bought one. But why spend so much money upfront and still pay for calls and data when you could still pay for the usage and get the handset at a subsidised price from a wide choice of carriers?

To me, the only attraction of an unlocked phone is that it makes it easier to sell on second hand.

Keep in mind the UK prices include 17.5% taxes, and 19.6% from France. Updating your chart with pretax numbers for a better comparison of what Apple is actually pulling in.


Not sure if the price in Canada was pre or post tax.

OK, you guys. I can't stand it. How do you put those nifty formatted tables into the bbs?

tanstaafl.

Looks like they're using HTML as they're moderator and above level.

Yeah. We're above the law.

abuse of power!

This is what video chat looks like on Android - using third party software, the only way to accomplish it (when it works)... Oh, before you click, a warning, it's bloody ugly.

http://www.engadget.com/2010/06/19/video-call-on-fring-for-android-bringing-htc-evo-4g-and-dell-st/

Randomly cancelled preorders.

You're seriously complaining about third party apps looking ugly?

Because when I do the maths it is cheaper off contract. In reality the contract price isn't subsidised at all (on the O2 tariffs that I use).

Why would I want to choose the option where I end up paying more in the long run ?

No, just putting out a warning. It's a fact, I'm just stating it to prevent shock when you click the link. If you want to read complaints you can read reviews of the two video chat apps and how it's tricky as hell to even get them working - and once you do, how badly they perform.

If you want to say I'm complaining, technically it's that Android doesn't have video chat. Another Apple first. Though I'm sure something's wrong with Apple's implementation as well (I've made my position on their built-in apps pretty clear already )

Ah okay because there are plenty of absolutely fugly and crap apps on the app store :P Same again for the Android market.


Ehh. My ancient Nokia has had video chat for years. It is just Android that doesn't have it.

Uh, yeah, as Trevor said, that's a ridiculous statement, as other phones have had video chat for years.

Besides, it's simply incorrect. The EVO 4G had video chat through Qik at launch. You can do it NOW. The iPhone 4 isn't even out yet. No, Android doesn't have video chat built in to the OS, but it can do it, so I think we're talking about a distinction without a difference.


You mean other than only being iPhone 4 to iPhone 4 and only over WiFi?


Sheesh, I don't even care about video chat. I don't even want to do it...

I hate to bicker, but I can't find a phone from anyone else, that's currently or has been in the past, shipping, that offers built-in video chat. Admittedly I only did a few Google searches. I did turn up some software hacks and perhaps one web service.

A couple of weeks ago people were proclaiming that the EVO was the first phone to make video chat possible. But there's no such feature built-in. There's a commercial solution (supposedly) from Qik, but I also haven't seen anyone mention getting it to work.

The iPhone 4 has started to ship and it's the first mobile that I've ever heard of, or that I can bring up Google results for, that comes with built-in video chat of any kind. Bonus that it uses a front facing camera so that you can actually frame yourself and use the handset while chatting.

Apple software and the iPhone are always going to have any number of issues, quirks and simply me missing stuff one would hope they should already have (including some polish in a number of areas). But they're always going to be better than everything from Nokia, HTC or Google. That's simply not going to change for today and I frankly don't see it changing until perhaps a decade or two after Steve Jobs dies.

I just wish the best of the worst really turned my crank.

Video calls over 3G have been around for years. No clue about video calls over WiFi but thats not really the point is it? Apple introduce video calls that only work via WiFi and its revolutionary?

My first Google search turned up this from 2005:

http://www.mobile-phones-uk.org.uk/nokia-n70.htm

Plenty of Nokias (and others including all the phones that launched the 3 network in the UK) have had 3G video calling, it is just no one has ever wanted to actually use it...

Only time will tell whether Steve can convince the world that it is ready for video calls. I remain to be convinced. I didn't think Apple would ever put a front facing camera on the iPhone, so I've been wrong at least once on this subject...

Instructions for making video calls with the very much current Nokia 5800:

http://www.allaboutsymbian.com/features/...XpressMusic.php

and a couple of 3G video calling capable handsets from 2004:

http://www.3g.co.uk/PR/December2004/8812.htm

N.B. making a video call on these handset doesn't require setting up an account of any sort (why does that sound familiar), you just need to call someone else with a 3G video call equipped handset. Though of course no one ever did

The Nokia N80 I bought just over 4 years ago also had a front-mounted camera for video calls. Think I tried it once or twice, since when 3G was rolling out in Norway, video calls were free for a period while regular calls were not.

Stig

They have indeed been around forever, and I did even once make a video call on my N70. The problem with video calls based on that standard included:

- It was a circuit switched data call vs packet network. That's great on some fronts (eg low latency) but hideous on others (trying to call someone on another operator was tricky as it didn't often work, and pretty much forget about it calling abroad). Plus, the operator could charge you through the nose as the call type was totally different.

- There was a hard bitrate limit enforced by using UMTS (384kbit) as that was the maximum uplink available at the time. That, and using H263 meant the quality sucked, frankly. I think it was only QCIF (176x144?) and maybe 5-10 frames per second.

I'm not saying that I'd use FaceTime myself (it doesn't feel natural to look at a phone when having a conversation if you ask me) but the 3G standard video conferencing looks so poor compared to iChat/Skype that it's very hard to take it seriously at all. Things have moved on, people expect a lot more these days.

I don't think anyone ever said that the EVO was the first to have video chat. And Qik is not only pre-installed on the EVO 4G, but advertised right on the ugly-but-planet-friendly cup-o-noodles packaging.

Really? That qualifies as "bloody ugly"? Eh.

This article and several others say Qik pulled the app from the marketplace since it was so popular, to prevent overloading their servers. Seems the preloaded version didn't include video chat as an option, forcing Evo users to download the newer version.

Oops, looks like where ever I read that was wrong. According to Apple, FaceTime takes over voice as well, ending the phone call if the session is started from an active phone call.