Last month, we went to France for the wedding of one of my wife's friends. I've driven in Europe before, but this time I was really bothered by the traffic lights. The standard, at least in France and Germany, seems to be to place the stoplights along the same line where you're supposed to stop your car. Of course, that means that if you're the front car, then you can't see the lights. They helpfully provide a little tiny copy of the traffic light lower on the pole, thus guaranteeing that you're forced to crane your neck over to the side for a minute or so.

In the U.S., the standard is to stick the lights on the opposite side of the intersection, and paint a big white line so you know where you're supposed to stop your car. The lights are far enough away that they're easy to see, and you're heads-up and paying attention to what's going on in the intersection. Seems very much more sensible.

Given how just about everything else, when driving around Europe, seems to be done in such a logical and thoughtful fashion, what happened with European stoplights? Am I missing something, or is this a bad idea that's just gotten stuck somehow?

In Norway it's normally stoplights where you're supposed to stop, but also on the other side of the junction.

Same in the UK.

I think that the repeater lights are purely a French thing, I remember them when I first went to France in the 50's.
The other things that struck me were Citroen's, Simca's and Panhards, cars which you never saw in the UK (Although The Citroen was also assembled in Slough and the 2cv pick-up was supplied to the Royal Navy, but I don't recall seeing them).
Other than that, the system of taking a ticket from a machine at the bus stops instead of having to queue - now used in supermarkets and hospitals everywhere, avoiding a multitude of arguments!
Oh, yes, and a choice of flavours in ice cream cornets, we just had strawberry, chocolate and vanilla, and didn't catch up for years after!

Yes, in Belgium it's the same as in Norway and the UK. Doesn't surprise me the French do it differently. They're the French after all.

Same in Rome, and in most places in Italy.
But, not everywhere. Somewhere, you have traffic lights where you stop, no lights at the opposite side of the intersection, and no replica on the pole. Yes, it's very stupid and I hate it, too.

Must have been the same folks who came to Belize, where there are like 3 stop lights in the whole country, and had the all put on the wrong side. You basically have to wait until the people behind you honk so you know it's time to go.

Portugal seems to use exactly what was described in the OP for France. You're supposed to stop at the light.

If you were all driving convertibles, not only would this not be a problem, but y'all would be too happy to care.

I do drive a convertible, and you've clearly never lived in the Phoenix area for a summer

I suppose this would be a good thing if applied in Philadelphia, where cars seem to start going ever so slightly before they get a green light.

Meanwhile, of course, the New York behavior is to run the red light. New Jersey helpfully combines both behaviors. Ahh, I miss New Jersey. Before I lived there, I never had as good a sense of exactly where the four corners of my car were.

Your post reminded me that in Germany the yellow light blinks before turning green, but (like everywhere else) is solid yellow before turning red.
Seems unnecessary to me.

No, the German behaviour is perfect. The solid yellow warns that it's about to go red and you should cross only if you are unable to stop, and the blinking yellow tells you to get into gear. Here in Holland lights go directly from red to green, and some people are very slow in getting off, while others are more awake - tends to cause dangerous situations.

I would argue that telling people that the light is about to change would tend to cause people to jump the gun and cause a more dangerous situation.

What's dangerous about someone being a little slow to start moving?


I hear the ladies like that.

I think he was referring to the ladies.

/slaps forehead

It only just occurred to me why, as British drivers with the steering wheel on the right side, we thought that the repeater lights were such a good idea: To us the lights are just outside the driver's window, almost in touching distance - very useful!

Incidentally, they are also used in Guadeloupe and presumably other French colonies. It amused me to see people arriving on Air France flights with dogs on Leads: What happens if they have a dogfight at 20,000 feet?...and do the air hostesses have pooper scoopers?

The captain tells the passengers to strap in tight, then pulls an immelmann.

Yes, I was on a roll with "dog fight" and "dogfight", after the double meaning for "right"!

Eh; the location of the wheel isn't important, but the rest of the world drives on the right side of the road.

Japan, Australia, New Zealand, Much of Africa, India, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Singapore and other parts of Asia

Yeah, driving side isn't so "one-sided:" http://www.i18nguy.com/driver-side.html

I just love that domain name.

You should have gone to Sweden before the changeover: Left hand steering, left hand driving. A mirror could be purchased to attach to the B post (between the front and back doors) looking forward for overtaking - rather you than I!
I've seen some of the smaller Caribbean islands, Caymans for one, are the same, but presumably it's not such a problem with the smaller volumes of traffic.

Exactly. We refer to our localization stuff here at work as "I18n" as well.

No, you refer to your localization stuff as l10n, and your internationalization as i18n.

Now that I actually know what it means, it's no longer i9g (interesting) nor amusing. Just kind of geeky, but in a sad way.

Here I was thinking it was some sort of ISO or IETF term.

f9g....

That's true. We actually don't have a localization project, it's all internationalization.

I just came across an instance in the States where there actually *is* a lamp just for the car at the line, while the rest of the line gets to see the main one.
Freeway metering lights.

In Italy lights go from red to green direcly. I personally would appreciate an intermediary orange, but I think too many people would just go before green. Or, worse, approach the traffic lights and get confused about what orange it is (in spite of the steady/blinking difference... )

The Arab world also puts the lights on the near side of the junction. Just before the light turns green, drivers in the front receive not one "courtesy honk", but a raging cacophony.