#301741 - 28/08/2007 05:06
TV update. It's a sad day in my gadget life.
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veteran
Registered: 08/05/2000
Posts: 1429
Loc: San Francisco, CA
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Ok, so my desire to get the new HD channels on DTV won over my desire to keep one of my favorite gadgets. Sadly, I said goodbye to my HR10-250 and hello to a HR20-100. It's not HORRIBLE, but certainly not a TiVo.
So a few more things:
1) BBC-A is now showing Top Gear. Freaking yay. I love that show - have only seen clips here and there. So cool to see the entire show in big screen glory. So well produced, so much fun to watch.
Question: What's all that about "The Stig" - Ok, it's a pro racing driver, but why hide his/her identity? What's with the Italian lessons when he/she is driving? Is there some kinda British joke that I'm not getting here?
2) There's not many good HD shows on TV these days.
3) Sold my HR10-250 for $175. I spent almost $1,200 on it originally. That's one of the worst gadget investments I've made, from a financial perspective. Most tech gadgets don't end up as bricks, but that's where the HR10 is eventually heading...
4) Where is TiVo's MPEG4 box? Are they just conceding the DTV market??? WTF!!!
- Jon
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#301742 - 28/08/2007 05:17
Re: TV update. It's a sad day in my gadget life.
[Re: jbauer]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 06/02/2002
Posts: 1904
Loc: Leeds, UK
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Quote:
Is there some kinda British joke that I'm not getting here?
I've often wondered about The Stig myself, my personal theory is that if you don't know who it is they can change the driver without us knowing, although you could also say that's it's Tiff Needell a former Top Gear Presenter come racing driver who now presents Fifth Gear on another channel so has to hide his identity.
Either that or it's just a tacky gimmick 
As for the lessons, well they have a different theme each series, so this time it's foreign languages next time it may be classical music, don't really see it as very funny myself.
I think Top Gear is slowly drifting away from what makes it great, it's slowly turning into a lads mag TV show without all the bikini's. I hope they get back to basics, drop all the stupid set up challenges and get back to making great TV about driving cars that you'll never be able to afford yourself really really fast
Cheers
Cris.
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#301743 - 28/08/2007 06:03
Re: TV update. It's a sad day in my gadget life.
[Re: Cris]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 10/06/1999
Posts: 5916
Loc: Wivenhoe, Essex, UK
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The first Stig was Perry McCarthy, a British racing driver. Since Perry stopped there have been a number of people playing the role. Wikipedia has some more detail.
Sometimes the Stig is the test driver from the car company whose car is being tested.
I do still enjoy Top Gear a lot. There are however too many silly items at the moment. Although some of the silly items are absolutely wonderful, the series of pieces trying to destroy the Toyota pickup were brilliant and the Robin Reliant one last series was one of the funniest things I have ever seen.
I'm not sure we can judge the current state of Top Gear on the last series. They were recovering from the nightmare of Hammonds crash and the filming schedule must have been really screwed up. Even Clarkson expressed frustration after the end of the series that they didn't actually cover many cars.
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#301744 - 28/08/2007 06:31
Re: TV update. It's a sad day in my gadget life.
[Re: andy]
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old hand
Registered: 07/01/2005
Posts: 893
Loc: Sector ZZ9pZa
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I think Top Gear is an oustanding half hour show extended into a slightly tedious hour long one. You can really see them try to stretch it out in some of the earlier episodes with lots of meaningless chat in the studio to fill time. Bits of it are great fun so I just record it and skip through watching it in about 20-30 minutes.
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#301745 - 28/08/2007 11:42
Re: TV update. It's a sad day in my gadget life.
[Re: andy]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 24/12/2001
Posts: 5528
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The special they did recently to see if you could drive to the "north" pole was pretty good. It was a race between Hammond in a dog sled and Clarkson + May in a Toyota Hilux.
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#301746 - 28/08/2007 13:22
Re: TV update. It's a sad day in my gadget life.
[Re: sein]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
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Oddly, they re-edit them for the US market with different studio chat, although it's apparently the same studio and the same audience.
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Bitt Faulk
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#301747 - 28/08/2007 13:26
Re: TV update. It's a sad day in my gadget life.
[Re: jbauer]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
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Quote:
Where is TiVo's MPEG4 box? Are they just conceding the DTV market?
DirecTV kicked TiVo to the curb; TiVo no longer has a contract or agreement with DirecTV to make DirecTV receivers. Supposedly this was because Rupert Murdoch had a stake in the company that makes the HR20 and he was interested in propping up his company with a lucrative contract than provide better service to his customers. This has been rumored to change with the sale of DirecTV to a company other than News Corp.
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Bitt Faulk
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#301748 - 28/08/2007 13:29
Re: TV update. It's a sad day in my gadget life.
[Re: wfaulk]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 10/06/1999
Posts: 5916
Loc: Wivenhoe, Essex, UK
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That would explain why it takes most of the day to record the studio pieces then (the waiting list for tickets for the studio audience is a couple of years long).
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#301749 - 28/08/2007 13:32
Re: TV update. It's a sad day in my gadget life.
[Re: wfaulk]
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veteran
Registered: 08/05/2000
Posts: 1429
Loc: San Francisco, CA
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Quote:
Quote:
Where is TiVo's MPEG4 box? Are they just conceding the DTV market?
DirecTV kicked TiVo to the curb; TiVo no longer has a contract or agreement with DirecTV to make DirecTV receivers. Supposedly this was because Rupert Murdoch had a stake in the company that makes the HR20 and he was interested in propping up his company with a lucrative contract than provide better service to his customers. This has been rumored to change with the sale of DirecTV to a company other than News Corp.
Right - so I believe that "Liberty Media" is now the company that owns the controlling interest. So how do we know that they are more TiVo friendly than NDS friendly? If they ARE, they need to send us a life raft! At least give us a glimmer of hope for a DTV/TiVo future!!!
- Jon
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#301750 - 28/08/2007 14:05
Re: TV update. It's a sad day in my gadget life.
[Re: wfaulk]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 24/12/2001
Posts: 5528
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Quote:
Quote:
Where is TiVo's MPEG4 box? Are they just conceding the DTV market?
DirecTV kicked TiVo to the curb; TiVo no longer has a contract or agreement with DirecTV to make DirecTV receivers. Supposedly this was because Rupert Murdoch had a stake in the company that makes the HR20 and he was interested in propping up his company with a lucrative contract than provide better service to his customers. This has been rumored to change with the sale of DirecTV to a company other than News Corp.
At least you have a choice. In the UK the only satelite service available is Sky and thats another News Corp company.
If you want to watch the service then you must use their special receivers as they won't release the CAM decoder module you need. Alledgely people have managed to work out how the CAM works and you can get clones now which implement most of what you need to decode the service. You still need the original decoder box however as the clones can't handle the updates that get sent periodically.
If you want a PVR then you have to get an old UK S1 TiVo or use the crap integrated decoder + PVR unit Sky sells.
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#301751 - 28/08/2007 14:08
Re: TV update. It's a sad day in my gadget life.
[Re: andy]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 24/12/2001
Posts: 5528
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Quote:
That would explain why it takes most of the day to record the studio pieces then (the waiting list for tickets for the studio audience is a couple of years long).
A few years ago I went to a CD:UK  recording and that took most of a day as well. Lots of waiting around for them to start and more waiting as they moved stuff around during filming.
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#301752 - 28/08/2007 14:41
Re: TV update. It's a sad day in my gadget life.
[Re: tman]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
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At least you have a choice. In the UK the only satelite service available is Sky and thats another News Corp company.
There are only two in the US (DirecTV and Dish Network), neither of which supports TiVo.
The new post-TiVo DirecTV DVRs are made by Pace, which I believe is the same company that makes your Sky+ units.
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Bitt Faulk
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#301753 - 28/08/2007 15:19
Re: TV update. It's a sad day in my gadget life.
[Re: wfaulk]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 10/06/1999
Posts: 5916
Loc: Wivenhoe, Essex, UK
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The new post-TiVo DirecTV DVRs are made by Pace, which I believe is the same company that makes your Sky+ units.
Not quite as simple as that. They made the first Sky+ boxes but then Amstrad got in on the act.
If I remember rightly NewsCorp just bought Amstrad's set-top box business from them.
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#301754 - 28/08/2007 15:20
Re: TV update. It's a sad day in my gadget life.
[Re: jbauer]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 08/03/2000
Posts: 12341
Loc: Sterling, VA
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I know my parents were very sad to give up their HR10-250 and move to the HR20. It really isn't the same, from the little time I've used it. It seems better than most, but it's still no Tivo.
I am so happy that I have FIOS at my new home. I'm not a huge Verizon fan, and the customer support is a bit lacking, but after a few initial bumps I couldn't be more pleased. The TV signal looks perfect (since, according to their claims, it's not compressed), and it's the first time I've ever gotten the exact speed advertised to me by my ISP.
And of course, the best part of all is that I get to keep using a Tivo. The Series 3 is very nice, and the external storage trick works like a charm. I can't wait for my HD shows to come back on the air (I mostly watch USA shows in the summer).
The only downside to FIOS is that I don't have any guarantee that they'll be adding nearly as many HD channels as DTV is going to. I think they certainly have the capability, and they've already added two since I signed up for the service. Regardless, I have to recommend the service if it's in your area.
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Matt
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#301755 - 28/08/2007 18:23
Re: TV update. It's a sad day in my gadget life.
[Re: jbauer]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 12/11/2001
Posts: 7738
Loc: Toronto, CANADA
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TiVo are hopeful, but I wouldn't hold my breath. http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/200...-in-august.htmlIt may have been Murdoch's stake in NDS that pushed TiVo out of the DirecTV PVR market, but it's TiVo's own fault for being stuck in the position of relative obscurity and market loser it's in today. Completely asinine initial service fee model, lack of advertising and promotion (including in simple to understand terms) and to cap it off, they finish it up with an even more insulting contract-based pricing model. The degradation of the device's design autonomy (first with the TV Guide deal) hasn't helped either.
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#301757 - 28/08/2007 18:47
Re: TV update. It's a sad day in my gadget life.
[Re: Dignan]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 17/01/2002
Posts: 3996
Loc: Manchester UK
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Quote:
The TV signal looks perfect (since, according to their claims, it's not compressed)
That's sounds like bollocks to me, it'll be compressed somewhere along the line, I don't care how much capacity they're getting on those fibre, there are only so many 1.485 Gbit/s signals you can get down one fibre.
In this country most broadcasters transmission networks only operate at between 34 and 144 Mbit/s, nowhere near the data rate of uncompressed standard definition digital component video.
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Cheers,
Andy M
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#301758 - 28/08/2007 18:50
Re: TV update. It's a sad day in my gadget life.
[Re: andym]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 24/12/2001
Posts: 5528
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Quote:
Quote:
A few years ago I went to a CD:UK recording
That's wrong on so many levels.....
Yeah... I contemplated just leaving that bit out 
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#301759 - 28/08/2007 19:20
Re: TV update. It's a sad day in my gadget life.
[Re: wfaulk]
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old hand
Registered: 14/04/2002
Posts: 1172
Loc: Hants, UK
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Oddly, they re-edit them for the US market with different studio chat, although it's apparently the same studio and the same audience.
Apparently the BBC America repeats are not re-recorded, only the Discovery Channel version was.
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#301760 - 28/08/2007 19:25
Re: TV update. It's a sad day in my gadget life.
[Re: jbauer]
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old hand
Registered: 14/04/2002
Posts: 1172
Loc: Hants, UK
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Quote:
Question: What's all that about "The Stig" - Ok, it's a pro racing driver, but why hide his/her identity? What's with the Italian lessons when he/she is driving? Is there some kinda British joke that I'm not getting here?
I think it was just a gimmick, and it also allowed them to swap out the driver if they needed to. Somebody said it was also because the driver could be contracted to a certain team, but I don't think thit would have been in issue in reality.
The music/language is also just a bit of fun, basically saying that he is so good at the driving that he can listen to music or learn a language while racing on the track at the same time.
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#301761 - 28/08/2007 20:27
Re: TV update. It's a sad day in my gadget life.
[Re: g_attrill]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31600
Loc: Seattle, WA
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Hearing the italian tape playing in the car during the track run was one of the funniest things I'd seen in a long, long time. That whole episode, in fact, was just awesome.
Finally seeing unedited Top Gears here in the US is a source of immense joy for me.
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#301762 - 29/08/2007 10:51
Re: TV update. It's a sad day in my gadget life.
[Re: andym]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 08/03/2000
Posts: 12341
Loc: Sterling, VA
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Quote:
Quote:
The TV signal looks perfect (since, according to their claims, it's not compressed)
That's sounds like bollocks to me, it'll be compressed somewhere along the line, I don't care how much capacity they're getting on those fibre, there are only so many 1.485 Gbit/s signals you can get down one fibre.
I probably heard wrong, but I was under the impression that they weren't compressing beyond what the networks were sending out. I only heard it on DL.TV, though, and they're inaccurate fairly often
Regardless, to my untrained eye, it's far less compressed than DTV.
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Matt
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#301763 - 29/08/2007 16:02
Re: TV update. It's a sad day in my gadget life.
[Re: Dignan]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 17/01/2002
Posts: 3996
Loc: Manchester UK
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
The TV signal looks perfect (since, according to their claims, it's not compressed)
That's sounds like bollocks to me, it'll be compressed somewhere along the line, I don't care how much capacity they're getting on those fibre, there are only so many 1.485 Gbit/s signals you can get down one fibre.
I probably heard wrong, but I was under the impression that they weren't compressing beyond what the networks were sending out. I only heard it on DL.TV, though, and they're inaccurate fairly often
Regardless, to my untrained eye, it's far less compressed than DTV.
That's sounds more like it. However, it'll still be compressed to buggery.
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Cheers,
Andy M
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#301764 - 29/08/2007 16:15
Re: TV update. It's a sad day in my gadget life.
[Re: andym]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
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Quote:
That's sounds like bollocks to me, it'll be compressed somewhere along the line, I don't care how much capacity they're getting on those fibre, there are only so many 1.485 Gbit/s signals you can get down one fibre.
In this country most broadcasters transmission networks only operate at between 34 and 144 Mbit/s, nowhere near the data rate of uncompressed standard definition digital component video.
The DTV standard in the US allows for, as I understand it, 19.4Mbps, which may be a single or multiple MPEG-4 video signals, and may also include simplex data transmission. I'm not sure where you're getting your 1.485Gbps number from.
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Bitt Faulk
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#301765 - 29/08/2007 16:18
Re: TV update. It's a sad day in my gadget life.
[Re: wfaulk]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 24/12/2001
Posts: 5528
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Quote:
Quote:
That's sounds like bollocks to me, it'll be compressed somewhere along the line, I don't care how much capacity they're getting on those fibre, there are only so many 1.485 Gbit/s signals you can get down one fibre.
In this country most broadcasters transmission networks only operate at between 34 and 144 Mbit/s, nowhere near the data rate of uncompressed standard definition digital component video.
The DTV standard in the US allows for, as I understand it, 19.4Mbps, which may be a single or multiple MPEG-4 video signals, and may also include simplex data transmission. I'm not sure where you're getting your 1.485Gbps number from.
That'd be uncompressed video.
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#301766 - 31/08/2007 17:03
Re: TV update. It's a sad day in my gadget life.
[Re: tman]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 30/04/2000
Posts: 3810
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I suspect, when they say "not compressed", they really mean "not compressed any further than the original broadcast MPEG-2 signal" or something along those lines. DirecTV was particularly criticized for down-coding some of its HD signals at one point.
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#301767 - 31/08/2007 21:38
Re: TV update. It's a sad day in my gadget life.
[Re: tfabris]
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new poster
Registered: 18/01/2002
Posts: 27
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I have the whole 'new' series (since clarkson, hampster and May took over) on DVR from the web. I saw the stuff discovery chanel had and I hated it. Half the appeal of the show is their banter between reviews and the News section. There was supposed to be an "americanized" version of it (car reviews, american hosts), and I hope it never gets off the ground.
..now to hack into the global satelites and get BBC-A bounced into Mr Bigg's Limo..
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#349863 - 18/01/2012 12:17
Re: TV update. It's a sad day in my gadget life.
[Re: jbauer]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
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Where is TiVo's MPEG4 box? Are they just conceding the DTV market??? WTF!!! Well, four and a half years later, it arrives. With fewer features than the "knockoff".
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Bitt Faulk
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#349864 - 18/01/2012 14:27
Re: TV update. It's a sad day in my gadget life.
[Re: wfaulk]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 30/04/2000
Posts: 3810
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In March 2010 with the TiVo Premiere, TiVo brought out their new high-def user interface and a bunch of other features like Pandora support. This new box seems firmly plastered in the time beforehand. Also, I'm now fully hooked on being able to extract shows, transcode them for my phone, and watch them while I'm traveling. No doubt, this sort of thing isn't supported on the new DirecTiVo. Sigh. Looks like I'm staying with Comcast for a while.
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#349869 - 18/01/2012 17:19
Re: TV update. It's a sad day in my gadget life.
[Re: DWallach]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 08/03/2000
Posts: 12341
Loc: Sterling, VA
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In March 2010 with the TiVo Premiere, TiVo brought out their new high-def user interface and a bunch of other features like Pandora support. This new box seems firmly plastered in the time beforehand. Also, I'm now fully hooked on being able to extract shows, transcode them for my phone, and watch them while I'm traveling. No doubt, this sort of thing isn't supported on the new DirecTiVo. Sigh. Looks like I'm staying with Comcast for a while. Yeah, that UI is pretty outdated. I mean, it's the same UI I have, but I bought my Tivo 5 years ago. But hey, I still think the Tivo UI is solid and the only UI that my mother has ever learned by herself 
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Matt
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#349874 - 18/01/2012 19:58
Re: TV update. It's a sad day in my gadget life.
[Re: Dignan]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 30/04/2000
Posts: 3810
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What's sad is that there isn't a rich and vibrant world of companies making DVRs. On modern computers, you don't have to do anything special any more. You can decode and play HD video in software! I suspect the absence of good competition in the market is all about two things. In the satellite world, the standards aren't open. You can't just build a compatible box. In the cable / OTA world, where the standards are relatively open (at least to the extent that CableCard can be called an open standard), nobody wants to up against TiVo's patent portfolio. The patents in question don't expire until 2018. Maybe things get interesting then.
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#349875 - 18/01/2012 20:22
Re: TV update. It's a sad day in my gadget life.
[Re: DWallach]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 08/06/1999
Posts: 7868
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In the satellite world, the standards aren't open. You can't just build a compatible box. It was almost possible to watch satellite on a PC, around the time DVRs started appearing. Gateway was in talks with Dish Network to add the capability to watch their programming on a Destination HTPC. Adaptec made the PCI card, and it was a stripped down version of one in use in hotel TV distribution setups. The overall project died when Gateway cancelled the Destination line in 1998. I worked with a friend to try and get our hands on one of the few cards out there to build a better DVR, but never could source them reliably. On the overall DVR field, I don't see too much growth there at all. Pretty much every provider offers a DVR setup standard, and the market for standalone units continues to shrink. DVRs did help start the trend for people to be freed from TV network schedules, and the momentum continued forward into services like Netflix, Roku/AppleTV and others for some people like myself. 6+ years now, and I can't imagine going back to having a cable or satellite subscription, nor can I imagine being happy with any current DVR on the market. Returning to such a setup would feel restricting now that I can watch what I want on whatever device I have handy.
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#349876 - 18/01/2012 21:11
Re: TV update. It's a sad day in my gadget life.
[Re: drakino]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 27/06/1999
Posts: 7058
Loc: Pittsburgh, PA
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I do agree that the streaming services are the future in terms of content delivery, but though there are many things to hate about cable/satellite companies and their DVRs, the one good thing is that once you pick one, you get a consistent interface to all of the content you subscribe to, whereas if I want to find out if a given show is on Netflix, Hulu, or whatever, I need to first do some homework, and then deal with their own interfaces with their own UI quirks. Also, once I've recorded a show, nobody can really take it away until I delete it, whereas if Hulu can't come to an agreement with content provider X, it's gone, and I need to go find it somewhere else.
Another good thing is that you can still skip commercials pretty easily on DVRs, whereas the streaming services that do have commercials generally make you sit through them.
TV packages are still terribly overpriced for most people, but I'm not so sure the streaming plans are great deals either once you factor in the limited content on each provider -- suddenly you're playing the same game you do with the cable companies of buying a subscription for a provider just to get a couple shows you care about from each.
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#349877 - 18/01/2012 21:29
Re: TV update. It's a sad day in my gadget life.
[Re: tonyc]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 30/04/2000
Posts: 3810
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I agree TV packages on cable and satellite are overpriced, but streaming isn't in any danger of being a suitable substitute. Not only is content inadequate, but the Internet just can't handle that many people people doing that much streaming, particularly for big events like the Superbowl.
One wildcard in all of this is AT&T's U-Verse, which could well be reengineered around massive-scale streaming, since they've got the content distribution network and the final-mile bandwidth. Sure, Comcast and others offer 'on-demand' viewing, but if every Comcast customer tried to use it at once, I imagine the thing would collapse in a heap.
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#349879 - 19/01/2012 02:04
Re: TV update. It's a sad day in my gadget life.
[Re: tonyc]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 08/03/2000
Posts: 12341
Loc: Sterling, VA
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I do agree that the streaming services are the future in terms of content delivery, but though there are many things to hate about cable/satellite companies and their DVRs, the one good thing is that once you pick one, you get a consistent interface to all of the content you subscribe to, whereas if I want to find out if a given show is on Netflix, Hulu, or whatever, I need to first do some homework, and then deal with their own interfaces with their own UI quirks. Also, once I've recorded a show, nobody can really take it away until I delete it, whereas if Hulu can't come to an agreement with content provider X, it's gone, and I need to go find it somewhere else. You hit the nail on the head, Tony. This is what I've been trying to explain to the folks crying "chord cutting." The experience I get with my Tivo is FAR more efficient than anything I can do by going "over the top." One of Tivo's paradigms when they first set out was that they wanted to help their users create their own channel. Yes, you could channel surf just like we used to in the good old days, and you can tune into stuff that's airing now, but the idea was that the Now Playing list is your favorite/primary channel. At the moment there's barely any services that will tell you which shows are on which online service, and that means that despite getting the content through the internet, we're actually taking a step backwards by going back to the channel model. I have to know that Show X is on Channel Y, and even worse, I have to know when it airs. If you asked me when House comes on I couldn't tell you, it just shows up in my DVR, and I see it. Cutting the chord just doesn't work for everyone. I work the numbers every six months or so as technology in this space advances, and there's simply no way to match the experience and value I get from my Fios subscription by going to IP TV. Some might say I watch too much TV, but hey, that's my hobby. I love it. And so far, there simply isn't a better way to pursue my hobby than with the method I'm using now. That's why I'm sinking hundreds of dollars into yet another DVR with four tuners and 2TB of storage. I actually need it!
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Matt
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#349884 - 19/01/2012 12:43
Re: TV update. It's a sad day in my gadget life.
[Re: DWallach]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
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the Internet just can't handle that many people people doing that much streaming, particularly for big events like the Superbowl. It wouldn't be a problem if anyone would actually use multicast.
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Bitt Faulk
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#349886 - 19/01/2012 13:05
Re: TV update. It's a sad day in my gadget life.
[Re: tonyc]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 08/06/1999
Posts: 7868
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I do agree that the streaming services are the future in terms of content delivery, but though there are many things to hate about cable/satellite companies and their DVRs, the one good thing is that once you pick one, you get a consistent interface to all of the content you subscribe to, whereas if I want to find out if a given show is on Netflix, Hulu, or whatever, I need to first do some homework, and then deal with their own interfaces with their own UI quirks. Also, once I've recorded a show, nobody can really take it away until I delete it, whereas if Hulu can't come to an agreement with content provider X, it's gone, and I need to go find it somewhere else. You hit the nail on the head, Tony. This is what I've been trying to explain to the folks crying "chord cutting." The experience I get with my Tivo is FAR more efficient than anything I can do by going "over the top." Don't get me wrong, cord cutting does have it's own issues too. The AppleTV does present a pretty unified interface to multiple services, including Netflix. The shows I buy show up when they are available, just like a DVR. For full seasons of shows, I simply go into the Netflix area and pick the show and resume playback where I left off. Work could be done by the other platforms to help unify things as well as a DVR can. I know how well this works from having a ReplayTV (RIP  ) that seamlessly combined two different subscription services into one interface and it is an important point. I just don't personally see much change in the subscription market and the way it works. DVRs changed it the most, but what is ahead for a medium that relies on airing shows on a specific schedule? Streaming or outright buying via the internet is still a very malleable setup, and the experience will change (and hopefully improve) over time. The two sides will likely blend more and more over time, with many providers already offering a wide selection of on demand content. Only difference there is that it's streamed from some box on the cable network, vs on the open internet. Not only is content inadequate, but the Internet just can't handle that many people people doing that much streaming, particularly for big events like the Superbowl. It will in time. CDN distribution is advancing very quickly, and demand for more speed will widen the pipes eventually. There is now pressure to expand bandwidth not only for the home/business markets, but also the mobile side. LTE rollouts require a lot of new runs to support the towers out there. Is cord cutting for everyone? Nope. Just as subscription TV isn't for everyone. There were plenty of "cord cutters" before the internet. The methods to access content are always changing, with different benefits and weaknesses when compared to subscription cable services. Sometimes those methods are regional. Technically, I did watch Battlestar Galactica on a regular schedule following broadcast via a Tivo. It just happened to be a Tivo sitting in a projection room beaming the image onto a large screen in a theater
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#349887 - 19/01/2012 13:49
Re: TV update. It's a sad day in my gadget life.
[Re: tonyc]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
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if I want to find out if a given show is on Netflix, Hulu, or whatever, I need to first do some homework, and then deal with their own interfaces with their own UI quirks Wasn't fixing (patching?) that problem supposed to be the value add of Boxee over XBMC?
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Bitt Faulk
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#349889 - 19/01/2012 15:59
Re: TV update. It's a sad day in my gadget life.
[Re: wfaulk]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 30/04/2000
Posts: 3810
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GoogleTV tries to paper over this mess, allowing you to search for what you want and give you a list of places (free, for-pay, and otherwise) that will stream you want you want. It almost works.
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#349890 - 19/01/2012 18:27
Re: TV update. It's a sad day in my gadget life.
[Re: drakino]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 08/03/2000
Posts: 12341
Loc: Sterling, VA
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if I want to find out if a given show is on Netflix, Hulu, or whatever, I need to first do some homework, and then deal with their own interfaces with their own UI quirks Wasn't fixing (patching?) that problem supposed to be the value add of Boxee over XBMC? Yeah, they failed. I'm moving away from my Boxee Box, and now for me it's pretty much just a device for playing vudu. GoogleTV tries to paper over this mess, allowing you to search for what you want and give you a list of places (free, for-pay, and otherwise) that will stream you want you want. It almost works. The AppleTV does present a pretty unified interface to multiple services, including Netflix. The shows I buy show up when they are available, just like a DVR. For full seasons of shows, I simply go into the Netflix area and pick the show and resume playback where I left off. Work could be done by the other platforms to help unify things as well as a DVR can. I know how well this works from having a ReplayTV (RIP ) that seamlessly combined two different subscription services into one interface and it is an important point. Even having to switch between different providers is too much. Even switching between your subscribed iTunes content and Netflix is too much, IMO. What happens when the show you've been paying for on iTunes becomes available on Netflix, or the other way around? It's a pain. I like that Google lets me search for things across providers, but they don't actually have a great variety of providers to search through. iTunes/AppleTV does solve one problem that I don't believe Hulu or other services do, and that's keeping up to date. Does Hulu have a no-effort way of telling you when there's a new episode of a show you like available? If not, that means that you have to keep track of when all your various shows have new episodes, and that just sounds like a chore that I got rid of when I got my first Tivo. Again, we're going backwards. But again, even though subscribing through iTunes would take care of that issue, it's cost prohibitive to someone like me, because I just wouldn't save any money at all (I'd probably spend more). Then there's one last issue that internet TV simply cannot address yet: ESPN. I watch a show every single day called Pardon the Interruption. It was a show my dad and I watched a lot together when he was stuck in a chair and couldn't go anywhere, and we both loved it and I continue to love it. I like that I can get all my sports news in a 30 minute, humorous presentation. Unfortunately ESPN is so ridiculously tied to the cable TV industry. I can't imagine how they'd make a transition to internet TV. ps-before you mention it, yes, PTI has a podcast version of every one of their shows. Here's the fun facts about that: - the shows are audio only, so you miss the funny/incredible videos they talk about - the episodes are ~22 minutes long and come to whopping ~5MB file sizes - as a result of the compression, it sounds like the podcast was created by holding up a microphone to a TV playing the show
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Matt
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#349891 - 19/01/2012 20:02
Re: TV update. It's a sad day in my gadget life.
[Re: Dignan]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 08/06/1999
Posts: 7868
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iTunes/AppleTV does solve one problem that I don't believe Hulu or other services do, and that's keeping up to date. Does Hulu have a no-effort way of telling you when there's a new episode of a show you like available? If not, that means that you have to keep track of when all your various shows have new episodes, and that just sounds like a chore that I got rid of when I got my first Tivo. Again, we're going backwards. It all depends on how far away from the initial schedule you move as to if it's a backwards or forwards movement. For the DVR method, you still somewhat care about the base schedule for setting up what to record to avoid conflicts. And long term you care due to possible space constraints. For my method with Netflix, I just don't care at all. I don't track new shows in the fall, and I don't track when a season ends. I just look for shows that might interest me and start watching. Sometimes it's a show that is only a few years old, and sometimes it's one that is now decades old that I never saw. The issue this brings up though is possibly being exposed to spoilers if a show is popular and talked about at the workplace. And of course sports and news are time sensitive, so this solution doesn't work for those. Thats why I have the blended approach pulling some from iTunes, and others I just wait. I still haven't watched Lost, but it's on my list. Now that the entire series is out, I can consume it at my own pace, avoiding cliffhanger delays. When I initially cut the cord, the streaming solution wasn't really there. I was forced into at least waiting a season to watch something when the show came out on DVD. There are of course very specific examples of shows/networks that just aren't internet friendly. Over the 6 years of being a cord cutter, I've watched that list shrink dramatically, and expect it to continue on. I've also watched online only content grow more and more, mostly indy stuff like TwiT.tv. Netflix and Hulu are making steps now to have original content, and I'm betting more companies start doing this in the future (Amazon is another one I'm figuring will try this). Essentially, I see the current internet cord cutters as the ones willing to live on the bleeding edge. The industry as a whole appears to be moving forward to making it more mainstream though. The lineup of TVs this year pretty much all feature internet connectivity as standard, even down to the lower end units like Visio. Sure, a lot of it is crap currently, but it will improve and grow. You have Internet companies like Netflix pushing hard, TV manufacturers also pushing hard, it's only a matter of time before the big content creators are forced to be on both sides more then they are today.
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#349892 - 19/01/2012 21:04
Re: TV update. It's a sad day in my gadget life.
[Re: drakino]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 08/03/2000
Posts: 12341
Loc: Sterling, VA
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Tom, I don't think you got the point I was making. You're addressing something else.
I was arguing that with cord cutting, the task of tracking when a new episode is released (and to a lesser extent which episodes you've already watched) is a far more difficult task. The mere fact that you have to pull content from different sources means that you don't have a central place to keep track of everything. Heck, you wouldn't even know if your favorite show took a week off.
Your response seems to be arguing that VOD is more convenient. Well I'm not refuting that! If every show I watched was available from a single source, like Netflix, I'd be a happy camper even if I couldn't track new episodes. But that's not the case and I don't see how it will be for a LONG time.
Look, as usual we all have our preferences. I see the appeal of your system, but I'd wager you're a different kind of TV viewer than I am, and I'm 99% certain that there is no better alternative to my current setup out there. Not for me.
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Matt
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#349893 - 19/01/2012 22:26
Re: TV update. It's a sad day in my gadget life.
[Re: Dignan]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 08/06/1999
Posts: 7868
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I did miss the point a little bit, curse of trying to write that up at work and having a few distractions. Though I'll keep my post there, as what I was aiming towards is that scheduling doesn't matter to me at all now, and is a benefit VOD/cord cutting brings even above DVR usage. Well, I suppose it shifts the scheduling concern to when Netflix is going to lose a license to something. But caring about when a new episode is released is something my mind isn't occupied with very often. When I initially cut the cord, I did track new releases for a bit and knew when to go to the store for a specific show. Over time though it changed to just going every once in a while and browsing whatever was on the shelves. Once I started carrying an iPhone, it became easier to look up info about a show on the fly and decide if I wanted to take some plastic discs home.
As for keeping track of what I've watched, true, there currently isn't a grand unified list at the top level of what I interact with, and I have no idea if Hulu tracks this decently. My experience there was limited, as I disliked the cost with ads still being present. Netflix does a good job of saving playback position for TV shows, even when I change over and watch something else. And iTunes is the same way, presenting me with fully unwatched, partially unwatched and watched indicators.
And agreed, everyone has their preferences on how to watch TV. I'm not trying to attack your position in any way here. It's simply to share my experiences and perspective as a cord cutter.
One other comment I will make is that I'm glad more and more shows are offering their pilot episode for free on iTunes. I'll go browse that from time to time to find new things to watch. It's worth looking into for others out there, even the non cord cutters.
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#349959 - 24/01/2012 16:51
Re: TV update. It's a sad day in my gadget life.
[Re: drakino]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 27/06/1999
Posts: 7058
Loc: Pittsburgh, PA
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And agreed, everyone has their preferences on how to watch TV. I think this Wired piece covers that topic pretty well. I don't think it breaks down quite as cleanly into "Community vs. Two and a Half Men" as the article seems to indicate, but certainly, it makes sense that the more passionate fans would be willing to jump through the hoops to find out which of the eleventy streaming services their favorite shows are on. I am, in fact, a passionate fan of Community, but I am also a much more casual fan of other shows that I wouldn't bother to go through the effort of searching for if they weren't delivered to me by my DVR with little or no effort.
Edited by tonyc (24/01/2012 16:52)
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