#299208 - 11/06/2007 17:14
New stuff from Apple
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 30/04/2000
Posts: 3810
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Gratuitous summary plus commentary:
- iPhone is only programmable via dynamic HTML. Unspecified: what are the APIs? Can you get at the audio codecs? (Can you write Skype as a web app?)
- Snazzy remote desktop support via .Mac ("just drag a file and it's there... boom"). Unclear the extent to which this works with iTunes. Can you keep playlists in sync across machines, rather than just from computer to an iPod?
- Safari has been ported to Windows. Weird.
- Mail integrates a little better with iCal.
- Apple now has a WebDAV / CalDAV server (iCal Server) as part of Leopard Server, which can schedule people, resources, etc.
- Likewise, Leopard Server has some kind of shared search engine that understands file permissions (i.e., it indexes everything, but only feeds results based on what's readable by the user).
- iChat Server, which can save conversations, videos, etc.
- TimeMachine is certainly cool, but no mention of ZFS, which would make all the difference for me.
- No new hardware announcements. No replacement iMac. No replacement Mac Mini. No new laptops.
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#299209 - 11/06/2007 17:46
Re: New stuff from Apple
[Re: DWallach]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
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Quote:
Safari has been ported to Windows. Weird.
Well, I'm running it now. I'm not sure I want to live without my Firefox extensions, but it does seem a little faster. I still hate the font rendering, though.
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Bitt Faulk
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#299210 - 11/06/2007 17:46
Re: New stuff from Apple
[Re: DWallach]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 08/06/1999
Posts: 7868
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Quote:
- Safari has been ported to Windows. Weird.
A web developer gave me a good reason for this that makes sense. Someone can now on one platform develop and test their site with IE, Firefox and Safari. It's possible to do this with virtual machines and such, but this now also allows it side by side on a Windows box. With the iPhone using Safari as well, people may be more interested in making sure their sites work with it.
I don't see the browser really gaining much traction though for Windows users. iTunes is popular on Windows because the iPod is popular. There isn't a key external thing to really drive Windows users to switch away from Firefox or IE, especially to a browser that doesn't feel like a Windows app.
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#299211 - 11/06/2007 17:47
Re: New stuff from Apple
[Re: drakino]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
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Quote:
especially to a browser that doesn't feel like a Windows app.
If it helps someone make a preemptive decision, it's all brushed-metal. Ugh.
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Bitt Faulk
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#299212 - 11/06/2007 18:02
Re: New stuff from Apple
[Re: DWallach]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 17/01/2002
Posts: 3996
Loc: Manchester UK
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Quote:
- No new hardware announcements. No replacement iMac. No replacement Mac Mini. No new laptops.
I noticed that they've 'upgraded' the Macbook Pro line, slightly quicker top end processor, Nvidia GPU, 802.11n, LED backlighting and an optional 1920x1200 screen on the 17 inch model.
Only thing I wish I had off that list is the new GPU.
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Cheers,
Andy M
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#299213 - 11/06/2007 18:12
Re: New stuff from Apple
[Re: DWallach]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 12/02/2002
Posts: 2298
Loc: Berkeley, California
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Yeah, certainly a disappointing keynote for me at least. I havn't watched the video yet, so I havn't had the full RDF experience, so maybe my opinions will change.
Ajax? As an SDK? That'll be great for responsiveness, UI, and battery life. Who's brilliant idea was this?
Safari? On windows? I can't stand safari on my mac. Get back to me when they separate the stop and reload buttons.
No new hardware? The only new computer design we've seen since the intel transition is the macbook. The mini is being killed off through lack of updates. The macbook pro got a good but completely incremental update last week. The iSight died months ago and we haven't seen a replacement or new displays? The best case scenario hardware wise is that the rumored new iMac is running late and didn't make it in time for wwdc.
Leopard will be nice, but it'll be late.
Apple has paid a high price for the iPhone. I obviously don't think it's been worth it, maybe others do.
Matthew
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#299214 - 11/06/2007 18:27
Re: New stuff from Apple
[Re: matthew_k]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 08/06/1999
Posts: 7868
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Quote:
The best case scenario hardware wise is that the rumored new iMac is running late and didn't make it in time for wwdc.
Or it's possible that they didn't feel it worthy of wasting attendees time going over new specs for existing hardware. Apple has been announcing less and less hardware wise at every keynote for a while now. Also, hardware rarely makes an appearance at WWDC, outside of complete new architectures that directly impacts developers.
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#299215 - 11/06/2007 18:50
Re: New stuff from Apple
[Re: DWallach]
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old hand
Registered: 23/07/2003
Posts: 869
Loc: Colorado
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Ok, first of all, DAMN is the new Safari beta fast on the Mac (and, thanks to Uno, decidedly not brushed metal in appearance). I don't get the view that LED backlighting is an "incremental update". It removes mercury from the equation, and should help battery life at least a little bit. Not exactly Earth-shattering, but a pretty meaningful improvement (at least environmentally) to me. I think I'm gonna freeze myself in a glacier until October. Could someone please wake me up around then? 
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Dave
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#299216 - 11/06/2007 18:58
Re: New stuff from Apple
[Re: webroach]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 08/06/1999
Posts: 7868
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Quote:
I think I'm gonna freeze myself in a glacier until October. Could someone please wake me up around then?
Only if you want to wake up in 540 years, and I'm sure by that time Leopard will be quite out of date.
(finally, a South Park reference I know. The Warcraft and Wii episodes have been the only ones I've watched since season 2 or so.)
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#299217 - 11/06/2007 19:38
Re: New stuff from Apple
[Re: matthew_k]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 27/06/1999
Posts: 7058
Loc: Pittsburgh, PA
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Quote:
Ajax? As an SDK?
Safari? On windows?
No new hardware?
Leopard will be nice, but it'll be late.
Apple has paid a high price for the iPhone. I obviously don't think it's been worth it, maybe others do.
Yeah, what you said. The one thing I'll add is that one of the macrumors.com livebloggers said that the head of the iPhone software dev team had trouble typing on the keyboard during the demo. That's all I needed to see to realize that the iPhone isn't for me. I can't imagine the frustration of paying several hundred dollars for such a wonderful device and only being able to unlock a fraction of its power because (a) I can't type on it and (b) developers can't develop legitimate first-class applications for it.
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#299218 - 11/06/2007 20:59
Re: New stuff from Apple
[Re: webroach]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 29/08/2000
Posts: 14491
Loc: Canada
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Quote:
I don't get the view that LED backlighting is an "incremental update". It removes mercury from the equation, and should help battery life at least a little bit. Not exactly Earth-shattering, but a pretty meaningful improvement (at least environmentally) to me.
Equally important to me, it should make the display not get dimmer with age, as happens with conventional LCDs.
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#299219 - 11/06/2007 21:44
Re: New stuff from Apple
[Re: mlord]
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old hand
Registered: 23/07/2003
Posts: 869
Loc: Colorado
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Quote:
Equally important to me, it should make the display not get dimmer with age, as happens with conventional LCDs.
Another excellent point. The more I think about it, the more impressed I am with the update. I think I see a MacBook Pro in my near future.
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Dave
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#299220 - 11/06/2007 22:05
Re: New stuff from Apple
[Re: matthew_k]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 12/11/2001
Posts: 7738
Loc: Toronto, CANADA
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The displays were all updated last year. They didn't say "boo" about it and for good reason. There's no need to. All the new displays now support HDCP and are ready for Apple's move into HD content distribution. That will come from iTunes. The last piece missing is enabling HDCP on their machines, including AppleTV. No small feat and impossible for many older models and unfortunately, every mini ever produced.
The MacBook standard and Pro lines received the same incremental updates the iBook and PowerBooks before them used to receive. Look at Apple's release history. There are two updates for each portable line per year. One in the spring and one in the fall. A number of features didn't come to fruition for the previous round of updates and are again missing from these latest offerings. LED backlighting finally made it out, but dumping features is nothing new. I saw 1920 resolution 17" models and 1680 15" some two years ago. For whatever reason they weren't released. Knowing Apple's it was probably for quality issues, perhaps battery usage. The G5 PowerBooks I saw (in person) were dumped for power usage and heat issues - something that was likely an easy kill with the Intel transition looming.
Not a single portable producer makes hardware of a similar calibre. The MacBook line still holds a very high marketshare and is the envy of every notebook owner around the globe. Prices are respectable and easily compared now as well.
The Leopard delays have nothing to do with the iPhone, but I supposed that's the corporate line. The OS was just further behind schedule than they had hoped, but engineers were not pulled to work on the iPhone as has been advertised. A number of extra features have also made it into the OS that were definitely not part of the original plans.
WWDC is not a place for hardware announcements generally speaking. Usually WWDC is used to debut hardware when it's delayed or to pre-announce fall hardware when the conference is run later in the summer. The iMac isn't in need of a redesign, IMO. They do need new mini models able to support HDCP though.
The iPhone is going to be a mind-boggling success. I can't believe the traction in mindshare it's already achieved and it's not even yet available. Every handset manufacturer should be very afraid of the same type of smackdown the ipod gave the portable music business. That's not an understatement by any stretch of the imagination. I have my doubts Palm will be around very much longer. I'm probably not the first person to suggest starting a Palm death-watch.
Porting Safari to Windows was likely a very easy move for Apple and seems like a no brainer to gain some share points. I suspect they'll be able to capture a measurable third place position behind Firefox. I suspect some of the points will come from FFX's share as well. They should really do something about the interface, but anyone getting used to iTunes will probably get along fine with it. I'm not a fan of its interface even on the Mac and instead use Camino.
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#299221 - 11/06/2007 22:32
Re: New stuff from Apple
[Re: hybrid8]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 12/02/2002
Posts: 2298
Loc: Berkeley, California
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Quote:
They should really do something about the interface, but anyone getting used to iTunes will probably get along fine with it. I'm not a fan of its interface even on the Mac and instead use Camino.
Yeah, I just flipped back to the bbs to post this gem from apple's introduction to the new finder:
Quote:
Imagine if browsing the files on your Mac was as easy as browsing music in iTunes.
Strikes fear into my heart, that one.
I would be the first to argue that Apple makes the best machines that are available today. It just seems like this has gone to their head, and they're not longer trying to improve them.
But damn. Ajax. They told that to a room full of developers. I hope they didn't cheer.
Matthew
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#299222 - 11/06/2007 23:03
Re: New stuff from Apple
[Re: matthew_k]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 12/11/2001
Posts: 7738
Loc: Toronto, CANADA
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I'm not that impressed with the new Finder from a feature-addition perspective. I mean, I do like the new eye candy and it doesn't look to be worse from a usability perspective, but most of it is really just gloss.
I didn't have a problem accessing other machines on the network before, but making this more straight-forward for everyone is definitely a good thing. I'm not liking the translucent menu bar - I'm sure we'll be able to change that even if through a third-party hack. Not liking the little shelf the dock sits on too much - it's going to be kind of "weird" when the dock is at the left side of the screen where I keep mine.
I'm really hoping they've improved the speed and accuracy of Spotlight tremendously. And that the wonderful operands usable in Spotlight are also now possible to use in Finder's own "find" - where you can build a complicated query by adding new rules ( "NOT" rules have been sorely missing to allow filtering out certain content).
One thing I've been hoping to see for years which I know I'm likely never to see, is the sorting of folders always at the top of file lists. Windows gets this mostly right, except they scoot to the bottom when you reverse the filename sort (dumb). I'd also love to see selection rules (which includes extending selections) changed to match what Windows is doing - it's done correctly there where Mac OS has always been completely broken in this respect.
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#299223 - 12/06/2007 00:47
Re: New stuff from Apple
[Re: hybrid8]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 08/06/1999
Posts: 7868
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Quote:
I'm not liking the translucent menu bar - I'm sure we'll be able to change that even if through a third-party hack. Not liking the little shelf the dock sits on too much - it's going to be kind of "weird" when the dock is at the left side of the screen where I keep mine.
I hate to say it, but it's like Leopard got hit by the Vista ugly stick. The pointless transparency and mirroring effect on the dock just screams change for changes sake. Beyond the pinstriping, the mac menu bar at the top of the screen really hasn't changed since 1984. Why now?
One nice thing that did come out of the keynote for my industry is EA putting their support behind the Mac platform. This might finally be what the platform needs to get people to stop saying "Yeah, but the Mac can't play games." If EA is jumping in big time, along with id and Blizzard who have always been there, maybe the rest will start considering it. Now they really just need a good "low end" Mac Pro
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#299224 - 12/06/2007 01:52
Re: New stuff from Apple
[Re: drakino]
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old hand
Registered: 23/07/2003
Posts: 869
Loc: Colorado
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Quote:
I hate to say it, but it's like Leopard got hit by the Vista ugly stick. The pointless transparency and mirroring effect on the dock just screams change for changes sake. Beyond the pinstriping, the mac menu bar at the top of the screen really hasn't changed since 1984. Why now?
I agree, but only to an extent. It all hinges on the word "pointless". There is a world of difference between the 14 year-old with a hacked copy of Photoshop UI design nightmare that is Vista and the "pointless" UI changes in Leopard. Personally, I like it. But if you don't, turn it off. I hate the dock background in Tiger, and ClearDock took care of it handily. It's nearly a sure thing something similar will be available for Leopard.
I just tried the same in Vista (turning off all the pointless, ugly UI elements), and I ended up with this:
Edited by webroach (12/06/2007 01:53)
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#299225 - 12/06/2007 02:09
Re: New stuff from Apple
[Re: webroach]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 15/01/2002
Posts: 1866
Loc: Austin
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#299226 - 12/06/2007 02:23
Re: New stuff from Apple
[Re: drakino]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 30/04/2000
Posts: 3810
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Quote:
Now they really just need a good "low end" Mac Pro
I'm not much of a gamer, but I suspect that an iMac would make for a pretty good LAN party box, at least from a form-factor perspective. Toss the keyboard, mouse, and cables in your backpack, and carry the iMac with you. The only question is whether the iMac will have state-of-the-art GPUs, rather than its current emphasis on low power.
Quote:
I hate to say it, but it's like Leopard got hit by the Vista ugly stick.
The CoverFlow thing for documents has a strong resemblance to Aero's task switcher. Amusing thought: given that Vista Aero has been shown to chew up more power (a non-trivial issue on laptops), the question is whether Apple's system has similar issues.
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#299227 - 12/06/2007 02:41
Re: New stuff from Apple
[Re: webroach]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 08/06/1999
Posts: 7868
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Quote:
But if you don't, turn it off.
Knowing Apple, you won't be able to turn it off. OS X is not known for allowing people to change the inter...
woah...
sorry, distracted by the little resizer in the bottom right of this form using Safari 3. Thats really cool.
Anyhow, Apple normally doesn't build much into the system to change the look, and people have to resort to 3rd party programs to do it, ones that usually hook into some odd things to get the job done. After having APE cause some weird issues with X11 in 10.2, and wasting an Apple engineers time debugging it, I swore off such apps. At least in Vista, I can turn off much of it, and change a lot more before resorting to 3rd party apps.
Yeah, forward progress does have to be made by the UI, I'm just disappointed to see nothing really new in 10.5 UI functional wise. Sheets were slick as hell when 10.0 was new, the genie effect while being eye candy shows where the app goes, and so on. Exposé was a nice addition as well for 10.3. But what purpose does a reflective dock serve beyond possibly eating more battery life by keeping the GPU busier. (As pointed out by DWallach.)
Quote:
Amusing thought: given that Vista Aero has been shown to chew up more power (a non-trivial issue on laptops), the question is whether Apple's system has similar issues.
Quote:
The one thing I'll add is that one of the macrumors.com livebloggers said that the head of the iPhone software dev team had trouble typing on the keyboard during the demo. That's all I needed to see to realize that the iPhone isn't for me.
So after watching the keynote, it was clear the person was a bit nervous doing the demo and was shaking slightly. All it really proved is the keyboard isn't going to be usable during an earthquake, or when doing a presentation in front of a few thousand people while nervous.
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#299228 - 12/06/2007 02:43
Re: New stuff from Apple
[Re: DWallach]
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old hand
Registered: 23/07/2003
Posts: 869
Loc: Colorado
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Quote:
The CoverFlow thing for documents has a strong resemblance to Aero's task switcher. Amusing thought: given that Vista Aero has been shown to chew up more power (a non-trivial issue on laptops), the question is whether Apple's system has similar issues.
It's never eaten much power in iTunes.
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Dave
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#299229 - 12/06/2007 12:19
Re: New stuff from Apple
[Re: hybrid8]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 12/11/2001
Posts: 7738
Loc: Toronto, CANADA
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Apple just confirmed to InformationWeek that there will be NO ZFS in Mac OS. Quote:
Senior director of product marketing for the Mac OS Brian Croll told IW point blank that "ZFS is not happening,"
I am speculating here, but with reason... It could be that plans were well under way to feature ZFS in the release version, even as the default filesystem, but because of Sun's arrogance and pre-announcement, Apple pulled the feature. It wouldn't be the first time.
Some years back ATI slipped and pre-announced (by a couple of days) RADEON on Mac before Apple unveiled their new machines. Steve Jobs was supposed to bring ATI's CEO on stage for that keynote and do a whole segment on the RADEON. Instead there was no mention of the graphics and RADEON was pulled from the first revisions of that desktop.
We could be seeing the same thing again.
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#299230 - 12/06/2007 12:51
Re: New stuff from Apple
[Re: drakino]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
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Quote:
Apple normally doesn't build much into the system to change the look
That's my only real complaint with MacOSX. Apple has a very authoritarian stance on UI. (Except when it suits them to break it, like with brushed-metal on apps they feel like having it on for no reason.) There are good things about that, as it means that almost all Mac apps look like they belong, unlike Windows where both users and developers (Apple included) seem obsessed with avoiding the standard UI. But it does mean that if there is some minor thing that you'd like to change, you're totally out of luck, which is really irritating.
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Bitt Faulk
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#299231 - 12/06/2007 13:08
Re: New stuff from Apple
[Re: hybrid8]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 30/04/2000
Posts: 3810
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Quote:
Apple just confirmed to InformationWeek that there will be NO ZFS in Mac OS.
Bastards! Talk about cutting off your nose to spite your face.
On the flip side, this could be B.S. Implementing TimeMachine on ZFS is almost (but not quite) trivial. Implementing ZFS on any other file system is lots and lots of work. It would be fantastically difficult for Apple to pull ZFS without seriously slipping their schedule, unless they had already done a large pile of otherwise-unnecessary work to soup up HFS+.
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#299232 - 12/06/2007 13:34
Re: New stuff from Apple
[Re: wfaulk]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 08/06/1999
Posts: 7868
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Quote:
Except when it suits them to break it, like with brushed-metal on apps they feel like having it on for no reason.
One of the things said by Jobs in the keynote as a complaint was the non uniform interface. Leopard is supposed to unify everything under one standard look, and from the videos it appears to be mirroring iTunes 7.2.
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#299233 - 12/06/2007 14:57
Re: New stuff from Apple
[Re: drakino]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
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Quote:
Leopard is supposed to unify everything under one standard look, and from the videos it appears to be mirroring iTunes 7.2.
I don't use iTunes. The last time I used it, it was all brushed-metal. Are you saying that all MacOSX apps are going to be brushed-metal starting with Leopard?
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Bitt Faulk
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#299234 - 12/06/2007 14:57
Re: New stuff from Apple
[Re: drakino]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 21/05/1999
Posts: 5335
Loc: Cambridge UK
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Quote:
So after watching the keynote, it was clear the person was a bit nervous doing the demo and was shaking slightly. All it really proved is the keyboard isn't going to be usable during an earthquake, or when doing a presentation in front of a few thousand people while nervous.
They should have had the hardware guy do the demo instead. His fingers are more suited to the compact form factor.
Rob
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#299235 - 12/06/2007 15:00
Re: New stuff from Apple
[Re: rob]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
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Ah, but no one would have been able to see him onstage. There would have just been an iPhone floating around.
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Bitt Faulk
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#299236 - 12/06/2007 15:42
Re: New stuff from Apple
[Re: wfaulk]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 12/11/2001
Posts: 7738
Loc: Toronto, CANADA
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iTunes hasn't been brushed metal in almost 2 years. It's using a flat medium grey (the same overall tonal shade of the metal texture but with no textural qualities).
I actually prefer some variation in the OS and don't like everything looking the same. I don't necessarily want the Finder to look just like iTunes because it's NOT iTunes. In fact, I even prefer the coloring of the original Unified look used in Mail that shipped with Tiger. Mail too will go darker in Leopard.
As mentioned, Uno, a third party application allowing some theming defaults to be changed, should allow this to be altered for Cocoa apps.
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#299237 - 12/06/2007 15:44
Re: New stuff from Apple
[Re: DWallach]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 12/11/2001
Posts: 7738
Loc: Toronto, CANADA
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It was reported (long ago) that Time Machine did not use ZFS. It backs up to an external volume which is a different beast.
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#299238 - 12/06/2007 15:59
Re: New stuff from Apple
[Re: hybrid8]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
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I'm not necessarily talking about the application itself. I'm talking about the window decoration. I'm not a big fan of the non-brushed grey, either. But as long as they pick a single window decoration and stick with it, rather than having three different interfaces, that would be fine.
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Bitt Faulk
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#299239 - 12/06/2007 19:33
Re: New stuff from Apple
[Re: hybrid8]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 23/08/2000
Posts: 3826
Loc: SLC, UT, USA
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#299240 - 12/06/2007 19:51
Re: New stuff from Apple
[Re: loren]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 30/04/2000
Posts: 3810
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Quote:
ZFS... apparently it's an option.
I'd hope so. Add a nice gui on top of ZFS and you've got a great way to build a home NAS out of a MacPro Tower, never mind what you can do with Xserve RAIDs.
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#299241 - 12/06/2007 20:04
Re: New stuff from Apple
[Re: DWallach]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 12/02/2002
Posts: 2298
Loc: Berkeley, California
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The postmonster ate my post. Summary of thoughts after watching keynote:
iPhone lack of SDK is even worse than I'd assumed. One literally launches Safari and goes to a bookmark. Their demo app is a a phonebook which literally does a round trip to the server for every step. That'll be fun over edge, especially when downloading the bitmaps to make buttons look like an iPhone app. It'll be even more useful when you travel outside the coverage area. The "no SDK needed" is a huge insult to all the developers who paid $$$ to be there to watch that go down. At least they didn't cheer.
The transparent menu bar is ugly. I don't understand who thought that would be a good idea. The dock seemed silly, but I'm undecided. They really should move it to the side by default, they're only selling widescreen displays these days.
Coverflow will impact battery life. The demands on the video card are one thing, but the demands on the hard drive are going to be much more. One can extrapolate from the 64 bit demo that the mac Steve was using had well over 8GB of memory. And you're gonna need it.
Matthew
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#299242 - 13/06/2007 00:02
Re: New stuff from Apple
[Re: loren]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 12/11/2001
Posts: 7738
Loc: Toronto, CANADA
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Previous builds of Leopard had ZFS. The beta builds for WWDC were finalized and burned a few weeks ago - prior to Sun screwing up Steve's possible announcement.
There's no guarantee we'll see ZFS available in the final release. I'm keeping my fingers crossed it's there and it allows booting, but I won't be terribly surprised if it vanishes from the GM.
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#299243 - 13/06/2007 00:10
Re: New stuff from Apple
[Re: matthew_k]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 12/11/2001
Posts: 7738
Loc: Toronto, CANADA
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I understood that iPhone web-apps could be self-contained and downloaded to the iPhone. So it would be possible to create apps that didn't need the network at all. If the apps can have access to incoming calls and cause the phone to dial out, that assumes you're not already on an EDGE connection. Most people blabbing about this seem to ignore that aspect and assume the apps must be loaded from the internet in-use. IMO, most people talking about the lack of an SDK just want to hear themselves talk. It's not something that's going to impact sales and it's not something 99.9% of consumers are going to care about whatsoever. Apps will be available from Apple and approved third parties. That's already been confirmed. I haven't seen anyone mention specifically what apps they would like to see on the iPhone that are not already included or likely to be included. That is, other than VOIP that I already mentioned from day one.  The phone isn't out. Primary reason for lack of SDK is time to develop one. Secondary reason is to be able to lock out certain application classes until the handset is established - this is to appease ATT who would like shit a brick if everyone was using VOIP on a WiFi connection. The presence of WiFi also somewhat negates the need for faster data access of the cell network.
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#299244 - 13/06/2007 01:10
Re: New stuff from Apple
[Re: hybrid8]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 12/02/2002
Posts: 2298
Loc: Berkeley, California
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The BBS ate my response. Again.
Once again, summarizing my nicely composed post:
The keynote said nothing about persistent storage. The example application did not have it's own icon, and did not cache any data locally. Steve mentioned that there was no deployment process, implying that local storage wasn't coming either.
Some apps that can't be a web page: VOIP, Call Recorder, Navigation, Delicious Library remote.
Apple obiously has an internal SDK, even if it's not safe. Saying "we don't know how to develop a secure operating system for a mobile device" is the saddest cop out coming from Apple. "Not yet" would have been a valid answer. "Web 2.0" is not.
Maybe the iPod lovers will love the iPhone, but they're not going to convert a lot of current smart phone owners.
Matthew
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#299245 - 13/06/2007 02:12
Re: New stuff from Apple
[Re: matthew_k]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 30/04/2000
Posts: 3810
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Well, if nothing else, there are the Microsoft weenies touting the expandability of their own gizmos. For most customers, it doesn't really matter, but for some it's a very big deal.
- The Crackberry addicts needs synchronization with MS Exchange. Maybe somebody could pull that off with some kind of IMAP proxy, but it would probably be a whole lot easier if Microsoft, itself, built a "native" email client. Probably not going to happen.
- The Gmail addicts want offline Gmail support (and not through Apple's Mail client).
- The VOIP people want Skype, iChat AV, or other things along those lines. I imagine AT&T isn't thrilled about this, but it's almost reasonable to imagine some kind of weird API that lets these apps do whatever they want over WiFi but restricts their access to the Internet over GSM.
- God help us, but somebody's going to want a BitTorrent client, at least until they discover just how much it slams their battery life.
- Gamers want games. Tons of games. All manner of games. Solitaire could be done as a variant on a JavaScript Widget. Not so much with multi-player games that want to use the WiFi to find "local" peers.
- Random people want offline Widgets, which could run just fine as mostly-offline JavaScript (just add some semi-reasonable persistent state). For example, I might want a currency converter for when I'm traveling.
- Somebody's going to go nuts with voice recognition and Bluetooth. Just leave the iPhone in your pocket and interact with it entirely using your voice. Read your email aloud, etc. Something like that clearly needs to run native and interface with everything.
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#299246 - 13/06/2007 07:18
Re: New stuff from Apple
[Re: hybrid8]
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old hand
Registered: 07/01/2005
Posts: 893
Loc: Sector ZZ9pZa
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Quote:
I haven't seen anyone mention specifically what apps they would like to see on the iPhone that are not already included or likely to be included. That is, other than VOIP that I already mentioned from day one.
The only thing the iPhone doesn't have for me is Navigation, which is something that is available for Windows Mobile, Symbian and Palm. Once there is something like Tomtom for iPhone, there is not going to be a lot to stop me getting one.
Quote:
Somebody's going to go nuts with voice recognition and Bluetooth. Just leave the iPhone in your pocket and interact with it entirely using your voice. Read your email aloud, etc. Something like that clearly needs to run native and interface with everything.
Its a shame that the iPhone doesn't have this kind of functionality built-in. Symbian voice recognition and synthesis, and Microsoft Voice Command work great and are really useful in the car.
Edit: Hey, doesn't OS X have this kind of functionality built-in? I remember playing voice controlled chess on my old Powerbook...
Edited by sein (13/06/2007 07:19)
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#299247 - 13/06/2007 12:41
Re: New stuff from Apple
[Re: sein]
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old hand
Registered: 23/07/2003
Posts: 869
Loc: Colorado
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Quote:
Edit: Hey, doesn't OS X have this kind of functionality built-in? I remember playing voice controlled chess on my old Powerbook...
Yeah, it does. You can actually get a lot done without even touching the keyboard... not that I use it (the voice control) a whole lot.
_________________________
Dave
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#299248 - 13/06/2007 13:38
Re: New stuff from Apple
[Re: matthew_k]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 12/11/2001
Posts: 7738
Loc: Toronto, CANADA
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You can certainly do an excellent browser/controller for Delicious Library as a web app. In fact I'd venture to say it's the best way to do it.
I'm sure we'll see some of the solutions from Apple and approved third parties, including support for Bluetooth GPS, voice recognition and voice feedback (Apple has a long history in this arena). Games are coming for sure.
Steve and Co. said "not yet" recently in interviews. Yes, they shouldn't have made such a big deal of the web development possibilities for the iPhone at the keynote. But this is just another one of those little things that give the bloggers something to chomp about for a few weeks.
ATT probably had more than a few words to say about open third-party development on the iPhone.
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#299249 - 13/06/2007 15:02
Re: New stuff from Apple
[Re: hybrid8]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 08/06/1999
Posts: 7868
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Quote:
I'm sure we'll see some of the solutions from Apple and approved third parties, including support for Bluetooth GPS, voice recognition and voice feedback (Apple has a long history in this arena). Games are coming for sure.
The question is, will this be added to the launch units, or will the iPhone suffer the same fate of the iPods, were one must buy new hardware to get new firmware level features? Thats one thing I am really hesitant about getting the first gen iPhone. Hopefully looping people into 2 year contracts on a $500 device will change this behavior.
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#299250 - 13/06/2007 17:52
Re: New stuff from Apple
[Re: drakino]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 12/11/2001
Posts: 7738
Loc: Toronto, CANADA
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Apple pretty much stated you will be able to add free and paid upgrades to the iPhone. With regards to the iPod, Apple have also provided far more support for it and updates than most other companies for their own players, with a couple of exceptions.
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#299251 - 13/06/2007 23:47
Re: New stuff from Apple
[Re: drakino]
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addict
Registered: 25/06/2002
Posts: 456
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Quote:
Quote:
I think I'm gonna freeze myself in a glacier until October. Could someone please wake me up around then?
Only if you want to wake up in 540 years, and I'm sure by that time Leopard will be quite out of date.
Know this, Time-Child; I shall smash your skull like a clam on my tummy!
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