I just started a new empeg page with the standard pictures and such. I am also working on a 30 second commercial for the Empeg which is just in the pre-production stages now. If you want to check out the web page as it currently is click on over to http://www.gregdemetrick.com/empeg.html . NO real new info there, just some personal info.

Greg

I read your page and your list of annoyances... and some of them sound like genuine bugs.. have you posted them to bugs@empeg.com?



Reg #2845: Mark 1 #00173, Mark 2 #119

Yeah really... I have a 2 drive Empeg (2 x 18GB) and I don't have those buffering/skipping problems. 10-20 seconds is absolutely unheard of.

-Tony
MkII #554

Hi

Couple of comments..

The caching is one of our best features - it doesn't glitch playback, especially not for 10-20 seconds. There was an earlier software version that had a slight problem, but I'm pretty sure that 1.02 (the latest released version) isn't it. The same goes for not saving the unit state at power loss - shouldn't happen, and certainly doesn't for me (on 1.1 or 1.02).

Have you tried examining the serial output to check that one of the disks isn't throwing back errors? You seem to think that the problem tracks are always on one particular disk?

Also, developing the Rio Receiver had zero impact on the tuner module. The delays have all been hardware related, and we didn't do the hardware for the Receiver - in fact we do almost no hardware in house. As it happens the module wound up being redesigned by SONICblue, resulting in several new features.

I'm sure we never promised a release date for 1.1 - although an early version was demonstrated at the Netherlands meet last year. Unlike previous software releases, 1.1 is such a fundamental change that we had to branch the source and hold back the regular beta releases in favour of getting the whole job finished. A small team of clients have had 1.1 for a few weeks and are helping us move it toward a public release - the date of that release will be whenever the bug reports stop coming in!

Last thing - Tony doesn't work for us, although if we're not careful he might start sending us invoices for carrying out a customer service role in his spare time

Rob

Also, we were promised v1.1 software in November and that has been delayed to the end of Q1 2001.

Um, I really don't know what you're talking about here. I don't remember November as being anything special in the development of v1.1.

Perhaps it only seems this way because that is when you registered.

DiGNAN
Ob-La-Di, Ob-La-Da, etc.

Dignan: I remember Rob saying in December that he hoped 1.1 would get to the alpha testers near Christmastime.

Kazama, I highly recommend you get your disks checked out, and also do a memory test. What you listed as an "Annoyance" sounds like serious hardware trouble. It's not supposed to do that, and you shouldn't just accept it that way. There should be no pauses like the ones you described, ever, and the songs should not stop in the middle. One of the things that makes Empeg better than the competition is that it doesn't have any pauses. The competitor's products have all sorts of problems with pausing and indexing their files, but not the Empeg.

It's also possible you're describing a 1.0 bug, but if you're running displayserver and logo editor, I'm guessing you're savvy enough to have upgraded to 1.02 by now, so that can't be it.

One of the problems you listed ("Also, if an album is continually rebuffering as some do and I pull the unit out, when I put it back in, it goes back to the songs from the last time it buffered successfully.") is a known bug with Variable-Bit-Rate files and will be fixed in version 1.1.

I'm glad you're 90% happy with the unit. I think that by the time you get your tuner module and fix the hardware trouble, you'll be 100% happy.

___________
Tony Fabris

u guyz keep sayng 1.1 like its tha second coming or somethng. its defanately a religion!

Rex

Well, the design specification for v1.1 did arrive on a pair of stone tablets...

Roger - not necessarily speaking for empeg

There's a design specification?

Pooh-Bah Rob said:

Couple of comments..

I should have prefaced my post with a shout out to the comapny. Understand that my annoyances and pissed off section in no way reflects my overall feeling for the product. I do love it. I think you guys do great work with such a small staff. I also think you don't get enough thanks from us for providing incredible support. That being said . . .


The caching is one of our best features - it doesn't glitch playback, especially not for 10-20 seconds. There was an earlier software version that had a slight problem, but I'm pretty sure that 1.02 (the latest released version) isn't it. The same goes for not saving the unit state at power loss - shouldn't happen, and certainly doesn't for me (on 1.1 or 1.02).


I just upgraded the software about 2 weeks ago to 1.02 but I have had this problem through all the software version I have had on the system (1.0, 1.01, and 1.02) After reading the other posts on this subject, I don't know if it is software or hardware but now I am leaning more towards hardware.


Have you tried examining the serial output to check that one of the disks isn't throwing back errors? You seem to think that the problem tracks are always on one particular disk?


I am running those diagnostic tests now and will post the results shortly under Tony's response to the original message. Initally it looks, odd. No errors per say but I can't completely make out what I should be looking for.


Also, developing the Rio Receiver had zero impact on the tuner module. The delays have all been hardware related, and we didn't do the hardware for the Receiver - in fact we do almost no hardware in house. As it happens the module wound up being redesigned by SONICblue, resulting in several new features.

I'm sure we never promised a release date for 1.1 - although an early version was demonstrated at the Netherlands meet last year.


My discussion of delays in dates was in regards to the tuner module and not the v1.1 software. I will go back into the site and change that around because I think it gave the wrong impression. My frustration was in reading the site in October and buying the unit thinking a tuner module was less than a month away. I understand the delays and why they happened and am happy that you will be shipping a superior product soon. The wait was annoying but also part of the deal I guess.

To be completely honest with you, I also haven't missed not having a radio in the car. Sometimes I just don't want to think about I want to listen to and let someone else choose for me. Random works pretty well for those times but being able to get traffic reports would be better. I know it's coming and saw the photos. Just eager to get my hands on it like the thousands of other people. (Yes, I am rambling)

Unlike previous software releases, 1.1 is such a fundamental change that we had to branch the source and hold back the regular beta releases in favour of getting the whole job finished. A small team of clients have had 1.1 for a few weeks and are helping us move it toward a public release - the date of that release will be whenever the bug reports stop coming in!


Totally understandable. Our QA department here is under the same pressures with our software.


Last thing - Tony doesn't work for us, although if we're not careful he might start sending us invoices for carrying out a customer service role in his spare time


Hopefully he doesn't charge you 100 Pounds/hour as an ouside contractor either. :-)
I just wanted to thank people who helped me understand how to get in on the nitty gritty of the system and You and Tony seem to be the best at it. Keep up the good work and thanks for being patient!!!

Greg

I thought the design specification was take two beers and call me in the morning?

u guyz keep sayng 1.1 like its tha second coming or somethng. its defanately a religion!

Well, I did practicially drive 2,600 total miles to see 1.1 and return home*

*(Sure, going to the meet to see 1.1 wasn't the only thing I did, but who said San Francisco is any place to go visit )

Tony highly recommend :

Kazama, I highly recommend you get your disks checked out, and also do a memory test


Here are the results of those memory tests for everyone to view. While no errors seems to stick out to me, you might see something I don't.
I powered down the unit, loaded up Tera Term, started the unit and hit Cntr-T. The following was the output:

empeg-car bootstrap v1.00 20000601 (hugo@empeg.com)
If there is anyone present who wants to upgrade the flash, let them speak now,
or forever hold their peace...
0000 empeg-car board test version 0.04
0100 ram test starting
0110 testing ic 1 (0-3mb, low word)
0120 testing ic 2 (0-3mb, high word)
0130 testing ic 3 (4-7mb, low word)
0140 testing ic 4 (4-7mb, high word)
0150 testing ic 19 (8-11mb, low word)
0160 testing ic 32 (8-11mb, high word)
01f0 ram test done
0200 ide detect
0210 command issued
0220 drive id IBM-DJSA-220
02f0 ide ok
0300 dsp/i2c test
03f0 dsp/i2c ok
0400 temperature detect
0410 temperature is 43
04f0 temperature ok
0500 usb detect
0510 usb rev 1012
05f0 usb ok
0600 ethernet detect
0610 ethernet rev 334b
06f0 ethernet ok
0700 cs4231 detect
0710 cs4231 rev a0
07f0 cs4231 ok
00f0 tests complete

After that, the unit froze and wouldn't accept any commands. I am not sure if that is normal or not. I powered down the unit and powered it back up normally. This was the output I got from that:


empeg-car bootstrap v1.00 20000601 (hugo@empeg.com)
If there is anyone present who wants to upgrade the flash, let them speak now,
or forever hold their peace...it seems not. Let fly the Penguins of Linux!

e000 v1.03
Copying kernel...
Calling linux kernel...
Uncompressing Linux.................................... done, booting the kernel.
Linux version 2.2.14-rmk5-np17-empeg41 (mac@aphex.internal.empeg.com) (gcc version 2.95.2 19991024 (release)) #135 Wed Jan 10 17:16:23 GMT 2001
Processor: Intel StrongARM-1100 revision 11
NetWinder Floating Point Emulator V0.94.1 (c) 1998 Corel Computer Corp.
empeg-car player (hardware revision 7, serial number 90000784)
Command line: mem=12m temp=42
Calibrating delay loop... 207.67 BogoMIPS
Memory: 10992k/12M available (972k code, 20k reserved, 296k data, 8k init)
Dentry hash table entries: 2048 (order 2, 16k)
Buffer cache hash table entries: 16384 (order 4, 64k)
Page cache hash table entries: 4096 (order 2, 16k)
POSIX conformance testing by UNIFIX
Linux NET4.0 for Linux 2.2
Based upon Swansea University Computer Society NET3.039
NET4: Linux TCP/IP 1.0 for NET4.0
IP Protocols: ICMP, UDP, TCP
TCP: Hash tables configured (ehash 16384 bhash 16384)
IrDA (tm) Protocols for Linux-2.2 (Dag Brattli)
Linux-IrDA: IrCOMM protocol ( revision:Tue May 18 03:11:39 1999 )
ircomm_tty: virtual tty driver for IrCOMM ( revision:Wed May 26 00:49:11 1999 )
Starting kswapd v 1.5
SA1100 serial driver version 4.27 with no serial options enabled
ttyS00 at 0xf8010000 (irq = 15) is a SA1100 UART
ttyS01 at 0xf8050000 (irq = 17) is a SA1100 UART
ttyS02 at 0xf8030000 (irq = 16) is a SA1100 UART
Signature is 67706d65 'empg'
Logo type is 10
Scheduling custom logo.
empeg display initialised.
empeg dspaudio driver initialized
empeg audio-in initialised, CS4231A revision a0
empeg infra-red support initialised.
empeg usb initialised, PDIUSBD12 id 1012
empeg state support initialised 0089/88c1 (save to d0004880).
empeg power-pic driver initialised (first boot)
RAM disk driver initialized: 16 RAM disks of 4096K size
empeg single channel IDE
Probing primary interface...
hdb: IBM-DJSA-220, ATA DISK drive
hda: IBM-DJSA-220, ATA DISK drive
hdb: IBM-DJSA-220, ATA DISK drive
ide0 at 0x000-0x007,0x038 on irq 6
hda: IBM-DJSA-220, 19077MB w/1874kB Cache, CHS=38760/16/63
hdb: IBM-DJSA-220, 19077MB w/1874kB Cache, CHS=38760/16/63
empeg-flash driver initialized
smc chip id/revision 0x3349
smc9194.c:v0.12 03/06/96 by Erik Stahlman (erik@vt.edu)

SMC9194: SMC91C94(r:9) at 0x4008000 IRQ:7 INTF:TP MEM:6144b MAC 00:02:d7:12:03:10
Partition check:
hda: hda1 < hda5 hda6 > hda2 hda3 hda4
hdb: hdb1 < hdb5 hdb6 > hdb2 hdb3 hdb4
RAMDISK: ext2 filesystem found at block 0
RAMDISK: Loading 320 blocks [1 disk] into ram disk... done.
VFS: Mounted root (ext2 filesystem).
empeg-pump v0.03 (19980601)
Press Ctrl-A to enter pump...VFS: Mounted root (ext2 filesystem) readonly.
change_root: old root has d_count=1
Trying to unmount old root ... okay
Freeing unused kernel memory: 8k initDÀDÂI see this is a developer image!
Mounting proc
Mounting first music partition
Mounting second music partition
Remounting first music partition read-only
Remounting second music partition read-only
Press 'q' now to go into development mode. You Have Zero Seconds To Comply...
ÿ„1P`@ JStarting player
empeg-car 1.02.

So I am not sure what to make of all that except that it seems to past the hardware tests.

This is my major curiousity. Since I only seem to have this problem when the unit is in the car, should I try and run those same diagnositc tests which the unit docked through the seriel port connector in the back of the sled? Just a thought.

Greg

To be completely honest with you, I also haven't missed not having a radio in the car.

Exactly. I used a Mark 1 (which came with a tuner) for several months, and I think I only turned on the radio maybe twice. Not counting the times I was checking software features or programming the stations.

I've said it before and I'll say it again: With my old CD player, I would usually only turn on the radio if I was bored of the CDs I was carrying with me. That doesn't happen when I've got the Empeg.

I still want to hear Car Talk when I'm driving sometimes, but that show is only on once a week for an hour, and I'm rarely in the car at that time. So it's only been an issue on a couple of occasions.

___________
Tony Fabris

Those messages all look pretty normal to me. Everything you described is normal behavior (freezing after the memory test, etc.).

What we need to see now, is the serial output when the "pause" errors are actually happening. The fact that you only get the errors in the car is troubling, and I'm now suspicious that the wiring might not be feeding the Empeg enough juice to keep both drives properly spun-up.

Remember that if you're trying to use the serial connector in the car, the default baudrate is only 4800 (to make it more compatible with other third-party in-car serial applications). There is an entry you can add to CONFIG.INI on the player that will let you put the in-car baud rate back up to 115200, and I recommend you do this if you're going to diagnose problems on the serial port while in the car.

___________
Tony Fabris

Are you using the standard in-line 3A filter?

Have you got a choke in line with the power feed to the empeg with a lower current rating than this?

Are you sharing a filter with a high-current Amp of some sort?

It sounds like you are blocking the normal current spikes that a disk causes when it spins up.

One of the few remaining Mk1 owners... #00015

charge you 100 Pounds/hour as an ouside contractor either. :-)

Blimey, if I could charge that sort of rate I would be able to buy a Mk2 in short order!

One of the few remaining Mk1 owners... #00015

I really hope Tony or Hugo are readinbg this

HELP!!!!

OK, so I decide to pull the unit because when BestBuy installed it, they hid the Seriel Port connector *grrrr* So I test the unit and it runs, I pull it out, and it doesn't run. In the process of checking this, I see that not only was the seriel port hidden but it looks like they servered the connection and re-wired the sled *double GRRRRR*

So I drive over to BestBuy and rip them a new a-hole and tell them to look at it and fix it. They look at it for an hour and give me insite into what may be wrong. Alas, I will never let them touch the unit again. Here is what it looks like. Everything seems connected except the Orange Ignition Sensor Switch and the Blue Amplifier remote power on. Now they are connect to the car properly but they are pulled from the sled.

Now for the question, what position numbers do these wires plug into? I think that may be what is preventing the unit from powering up. I am tempted to just order a new sled and re-wire it myself but I don't want to wait a week for the sled to arrive. Best Buy is trying to blame the unit but I don't believe them. They also want to blame the amp for power squeels. Anyways, I will try to re-wire the sled first and them go from there.


HELP!!!! Want to get this done before the sun goes down!!!

Now they are connect to the car properly but they are pulled from the sled. Now for the question, what position numbers do these wires plug into? I think that may be what is preventing the unit from powering up.

Yes, that is likely what happened. Some of the connectors went out with less-than optimal crimps, and the wires have been sometimes known to pull out of the sled accidentally. It might not have been the installer's fault (although it could have been, we may never know).

Your best bet is to completely un-install the sled and carefully repair the faulty connector at a workbench. After you're sure all the connections are properly soldered and solid, then re-install the sled.

Both the amp remote and the ignition wire must be connected correctly in order for the unit to function properly, as well as the constant-power wire. As long as you are familiar with the "industry standard" ways of hooking up car stereos, you should be all right.

The only problem is that I'm having trouble locating documentation on the Mark2 pinouts. There's a list of Mark1 pinouts at the developer site, but those won't do you any good. I know the Mark2 pinouts were posted here on the BBS recently, I'm just having trouble locating the post right now. Anyone else have them?

___________
Tony Fabris

Also, I wanted to add the following:

If your player is behaving badly because of a faulty connector, I'm sure that the Empeg folks would replace the sled or the connector under warranty. Especially if this was one of the connectors that had one of the "known problems".

The only reason I suggested repairing it yourself was that it would simply be quicker. I know that if I were in the same situation, I would (a) want to be reassured that I could get it fixed for free, and (b) would prefer to do the repair myself anyway, despite the reassurance. I'm a bit of a do-it-yourselfer, you see.

___________
Tony Fabris

Thanks for the speedy response. After looking it over some more, I am just not comfortable with repairing the sled like that and I am serverly pissed off that BestBuy severed the Seriel connection from the sled. I am just going to buy new sleds from empeg and deal with installing it myself. After the afternoon with the installers I am pretty sure I could do it if I had the right connections going on. Is there some way to test the 12V connection on the unit directly outside of the sled? Or even in the sled with connectors to wires?

I was thinking about building a box for home too so I was going to order another sled anyway. The store is well hidden tho in the new website.

Rob: What's up with Support? The web site and your voice mail says you will take calls until 23:30 GMT (18:30 EST, aka 6:30pm) I called at 18:00 EST and no one was there? Wassupwithdat?

Is there some way to test the 12V connection on the unit directly outside of the sled? Or even in the sled with connectors to wires?

Yes. If you simply want to test for the presence of 12 volts, a simple 12v light-bulb tester will work, available at any auto parts store. If you want more detailed information about the connection (current, voltage, resistance, etc.), then a multimeter is necessary, available at any Radio Shack. I have a pretty nice digital one...

___________
Tony Fabris

The only problem is that I'm having trouble locating documentation on the Mark2 pinouts

Top row, starting from left looking into back of empeg

Pin 1 - Permanent +12V (memory)
Pin 2 - Aux power (amp remote) (1A max draw, we mean it)
Pin 3 - Tuner module multiplexed audio in/DAB TTL level data
Pin 4 - Tuner module signal level in/DAB TTL level word clock
Pin 5 - DAB TTL level data clock
Pin 6 - Tuner module TTL level serial RX line
Pin 7 - Tuner module TTL level serial TX line
Pin 8 - Serial port RS232 level RX line
Pin 9 - Serial port RS232 level TX line
Pin 10 - Serial port RS232 level CTS line
Pin 11 - Serial port RS232 level DCD line
Pin 12 - Ground (microphone)

Bottom row, starting from left looking into empeg

Pin 13 - Ground (power)
Pin 14 - Ignition sense
Pin 15 - Rear right out
Pin 16 - Rear ground
Pin 17 - Rear left out
Pin 18 - Front right out
Pin 19 - Front ground
Pin 20 - Front left out
Pin 21 - CD right in
Pin 22 - CD ground
Pin 23 - CD left in
Pin 24 - Microphone in



Patrick


Opinions expressed in this email may contain up to 42% water by weight, and are mine. All mine.

OK, This was exactly what I needed. Not heeding my own advice to not fix the sled, I pulled out the computer repair kit and fiddled with the connection. Suprisingly, I got it to work!!!!!! Then I started getting a buzzing noise which I had before. Well, I pull the sled out and one of the speaer leads was coming out of the connection. now I am going back and fixing the connections and solidifying the connection. Thanks for all your help and photos of the fix will be online soon!!!!

OK, here is the recap. I got the unit back in and working about 90%. It seems the stalling problems I was having have not re-apeared. I think it was related to the power and ground plugs not being all the way in. The ground was definately not in all the way. I am still getting buzzing over the speakers but I think that is related to the amp and wiring. The funny thing is I get the buzz when it starts up but if I unplug the back right speaker the buzz goes away completely. Have to research that.

I am still going to buy a new sled anyways because I don't trust my own work and I want the port access again. So more work ahead but got some done. Thanks again for everyone's help!!!

Might be a dumb question, but in the process of ripping Best Buy a new one, did you tell them you wanted 'em to buy you a new sled? You should go back and talk to the manager. If they cut that serial line without your permission, i'd raise all hell, nicely of course, and get them to reimburse you for a new sled.


|| loren.cox ||

Unfortunately with our current system you get the same message if all lines are busy (and at that time of night we usually only have one person here) as you would if we were closed. We have a new phone exchange on order which should address this.

Rob

Lemme guess Ericsson 6110 PABX (the old one) ?

Cheers,
Hans


Mk2 - Blue - 080000431

No, we currently use Centrex, the system where the "exchange" is provided by software at the Telco. It is quite fully featured, with UCD, voicemail and so forth - but we've tripled in size since we started using it. We could use more internal lines without having to rent more lines from the Telco.

Rob

The funny thing is I get the buzz when it starts up but if I unplug the back right speaker the buzz goes away completely.

I had the exact same problem. Sometimes when I inserted the empeg, I would get an alternator whine (a buzzing sound that increases in pitch the higher the RPM of the engine). I found the problem to be a faulty (loose) ground connection to the empeg. NOT grounding the empeg will possibly fry various components inside of the machine, so I assumed that at least a small ground connection was being made. But the way that car audio works, you want to have at least the game gauge wire for the ground as you have for the power. If your connection to the ground isn't as strong as the connection to the power, this would be a possible cause of your engine noise. I'd recommend checking that the ground lead on your harnass is seated properly when you insert the empeg. To fix mine, I pulled it out completely, reinserted it, and bent the leads so that it wouldn't pull out again.

I seriously would recommend getting another harnass if the problems persist.

(O|||||O)