#273689 - 07/01/2006 11:41
Advice on network storage please
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enthusiast
Registered: 06/08/2002
Posts: 333
Loc: The Pilbara, Western Australia
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I am seeking a storage solution for my digital photos that enables them to be accessed by myself or my GF simultaneously, which the products linked below all appear to allow. The main problem I have is that I also need to allow us both access to a USB card reader. All the products mention attaching another USB hard drive to their inbuilt USB ports, but does anyone know whether a card reader would also work? Products: Western Digital NetCenterMaxtor Shared Storage/PlusLinksys NSLU2At the moment I am leaning toward the Linksys. Thanks!
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Peter.
"I spent 90% of my money on women, drink and fast cars. The rest I wasted." - George Best
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#273690 - 07/01/2006 14:32
Re: Advice on network storage please
[Re: pedrohoon]
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addict
Registered: 29/06/2002
Posts: 531
Loc: Triangle, VA
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I personally have the Linksys NSLU2 with a Seagate 300G USB Drive and have had no problems with it.. Can access the files from the normal windows shares or from its web interface... Plus they have other firmwares out there if you wish to really hack the thing and add mini software packages to it to do more.. Though the one issue I did have with it was my hard drive only worked on the 1st usb port cause supposidly the second is for flash I dunno never tried anything else in it.. So maybe that port would work for the card reader.. could always go to linksys's support page and talk to a live rep over chat and ask..
_________________________
-D
Modifying and Tweaking is a journey,
not a destination................................
MKIIa : 60gig - 040103286 - Blue - v2 + PCATS tuner
MKIIa : 20gig - 040103260 - Blue - v3a8 + Mark Lord Special Edition Cherry Dock
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#273691 - 08/01/2006 12:40
Re: Advice on network storage please
[Re: SonicSnoop]
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enthusiast
Registered: 06/08/2002
Posts: 333
Loc: The Pilbara, Western Australia
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Thanks for the reply, I have looked at the support page and found a knowledge base article showing that a USB flash drive must be connected to port 2 on the NSLU2.
If the card reader identifies itself as a flash drive (which is basically what it is) it may work.
I will search some more on the other products and see if I can get some more definite info on their attachment criteria.
_________________________
Peter.
"I spent 90% of my money on women, drink and fast cars. The rest I wasted." - George Best
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#273692 - 08/01/2006 18:13
Re: Advice on network storage please
[Re: pedrohoon]
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veteran
Registered: 01/10/2001
Posts: 1307
Loc: Amsterdam, The Netherlands
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Ummh... any old and slow second-hand PC running samba?
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#273693 - 09/01/2006 06:23
Re: Advice on network storage please
[Re: julf]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 18/01/2000
Posts: 5683
Loc: London, UK
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Quote:
Ummh... any old and slow second-hand PC running samba?
I've got one of those (6 years). Actually, that's not that old, I guess.
Unfortunately, one of my criteria is that I be able to backup to external USB hard drive. This thing's only got USB 1.1, so it takes a while.
I would put a USB 2.0 card in it, but that makes my 3ware RAID card stop working, which kind of defeats the point of having it...
And I can't find a modern motherboard that'll take the 900MHz Athlon CPU that's in it currently, so that's a whole round of upgrades to go through. After all, if I'm going to upgrade anyway, I might as well get Gigabit ethernet, and maybe external SATA, and I might as well get some future proofing by going to Socket 939...
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-- roger
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#273694 - 09/01/2006 12:33
Re: Advice on network storage please
[Re: Roger]
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addict
Registered: 01/03/2002
Posts: 599
Loc: Florida
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Quote:
I might as well get some future proofing by going to Socket 939...
AMD is going to Socket M2 for desktop CPU's and Socket F for server CPU's.
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Chad
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#273695 - 09/01/2006 12:38
Re: Advice on network storage please
[Re: Attack]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 09/08/2000
Posts: 2091
Loc: Edinburgh, Scotland
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I'm sure they keep changing sockets just to piss us off - need to keep changing motherboards when I shouldn't have to.
_________________________
Rory
MkIIa, blue lit buttons, memory upgrade, 1Tb in Subaru Forester STi
MkII, 240Gb in Mark Lord dock
MkII, 80Gb SSD in dock
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#273696 - 09/01/2006 13:22
Re: Advice on network storage please
[Re: frog51]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 27/02/2004
Posts: 1919
Loc: London
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Quote:
I'm sure they keep changing sockets just to piss us off
I reckon you're right, I need a new PSU for what I thought was a standard ATX M/B, I ordered an Elan Greenerger only to find that I've actually got an ATX12V w/ 6 pin AUX, can I find a quiet PSU? Not so far....
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#273697 - 09/01/2006 14:33
Re: Advice on network storage please
[Re: tahir]
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addict
Registered: 01/03/2002
Posts: 599
Loc: Florida
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Quote:
I've actually got an ATX12V w/ 6 pin AUX, can I find a quiet PSU? Not so far....
I have the SeaSonic S12-600 ATX12V 600W and I can't hear it. http://www.seasonicusa.com/
Also PC Power & Cooling, Inc. makes the Silencer lineup and they will custom wire the PSU for you. I've never tried the Silencer line so I don't know how quite they are.
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Chad
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#273698 - 09/01/2006 15:13
Re: Advice on network storage please
[Re: Attack]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 27/02/2004
Posts: 1919
Loc: London
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Thanks Attack, wonder if I can get those in the UK, I'll have a google.
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#273699 - 09/01/2006 15:24
Re: Advice on network storage please
[Re: tahir]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 27/02/2004
Posts: 1919
Loc: London
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Got it from overclockers.co.uk thanks 
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#273700 - 10/01/2006 04:40
Re: Advice on network storage please
[Re: pedrohoon]
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enthusiast
Registered: 06/08/2002
Posts: 333
Loc: The Pilbara, Western Australia
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Well, according to this, some card readers will work. Reading the user comments here, it seems people either love this gadget or hate it, not much middle ground!
_________________________
Peter.
"I spent 90% of my money on women, drink and fast cars. The rest I wasted." - George Best
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#273701 - 10/01/2006 20:53
Re: Advice on network storage please
[Re: Roger]
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old hand
Registered: 15/02/2002
Posts: 1049
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Why not replace the RAID card with the USB card and just use software RAID? If this is a 6 year old machine, its not like you'll be using it for high-performance stuff anyhow, right? The hardware RAID card adds a failure point, too. If the RAID card goes bad, you'll need another one of the same type to recover the array. That's not the case with software RAID. The only disadvantage is speed, but come on, we're talking about sharing to Windoze PCs here, aren't we? Its still probably going to be faster than the local storage on the Windows machines.  Jim
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#273702 - 10/01/2006 21:01
Re: Advice on network storage please
[Re: TigerJimmy]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 29/08/2000
Posts: 14496
Loc: Canada
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Quote:
Why not replace the RAID card with the USB card and just use software RAID? If this is a 6 year old machine, its not like you'll be using it for high-performance stuff anyhow, right?
Since when is software RAID slower than hardware RAID???
Certainly not the case on Linux, at least not for any hardware I've played with to date.
cheers
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#273703 - 10/01/2006 21:09
Re: Advice on network storage please
[Re: mlord]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
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Software RAID is slower than hardware RAID any time the host's CPU is busy doing something else. Unless the system is a fileserver only, a system with enough storage to necessitate RAID is likely to have that problem fairly frequently.
On the other hand, software RAID does have the possibility of being faster than hardware RAID because it can use multiple data paths. But that doesn't happen until you're using a machine that has a multitude of HBAs.
On the other hand (foot?), undercutting all of this is the fact that we're probably talking about Windows RAID, which, from all accounts, is both slow and unreliable. I've also had problems with the reliability of Linux' RAID in the past which makes me trigger shy about it. I'm totally comfortable with Solaris's software RAID, though. Never had any problems that I didn't cause. (If you go that way for whatever reason, never do a reconfiguration reboot after you've got it set up. Always go for drvfsadm.)
Edited by wfaulk (10/01/2006 21:13)
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Bitt Faulk
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#273704 - 10/01/2006 21:23
Re: Advice on network storage please
[Re: wfaulk]
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old hand
Registered: 15/02/2002
Posts: 1049
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Well, I was suggesting that roger take that 6 year old machine and make a linux fileserver out of it. Windows is complete garbage and I think people should use it for the absolute minimum, which would be games and PC-only applications. As a game system, Windows is adequate, although a bit expensive...
I have found linux software RAID to be extremely reliable for the last 6 years I've been using it. A bad spindle killed one of my RAID0 arrays, as expected, but I've recovered from bad spindles with the software RAID5 just fine. It seems to "just work", and the linux filesystem is about 10,000X faster and more reliable than anything from Microsoft when you have a whole bunch of files on it (like a big photo or music collection).
I had no idea it was actually faster than using a hardware RAID controller. but that's pretty cool. I had never tested it myself, but everything I'd read suggested it would be slower, especially using RAID5.
Mark, does your statement hold true for RAID5, or do the hardware controllers make a difference there?
Jim
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#273705 - 10/01/2006 21:33
Re: Advice on network storage please
[Re: TigerJimmy]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
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Quote:
I had no idea it was actually faster than using a hardware RAID controller.
All I'm saying is that it could be under certain circumstances, not that it is. Those circumstances are basically when the throughput is limited by the IO bandwidth, the software RAID drives span multiple HBAs (where a hardware RAID cannot), and the RAID involved is utilizing striping (RAIDs 3, 4, and 5, and possibly 0, depending on implementation specifics, notably, whether it's really RAID0 or they're misappropriating the term for a JBOD).
Edited by wfaulk (10/01/2006 21:36)
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Bitt Faulk
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#273706 - 10/01/2006 22:09
Re: Advice on network storage please
[Re: TigerJimmy]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 18/01/2000
Posts: 5683
Loc: London, UK
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Quote:
Why not replace the RAID card with the USB card and just use software RAID?
Because the disks are already connected to the hardware RAID card?
_________________________
-- roger
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#273707 - 10/01/2006 22:18
Re: Advice on network storage please
[Re: TigerJimmy]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 29/08/2000
Posts: 14496
Loc: Canada
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Quote:
Mark, does your statement hold true for RAID5, or do the hardware controllers make a difference there?
Some of the hardware solutions may be faster doing writes to RAID5 than the Linux s/w RAID, especially when an older host CPU is involved.
But on modern CPUs, they've got tons of cycles to burn (rarely is a CPU anywhere near fully loaded), and the hardware interrupt handlers generally get priority, and Linux s/w RAID almost always beats hardware. Unless your hardware RAID card has megabytes of cache or something extra like that to boost it.
I'm doing work for a very very major server vendor, and Linux s/w RAID is what they're going with, for good reason.
Cheers
Edited by mlord (10/01/2006 22:19)
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#273708 - 11/01/2006 02:53
Re: Advice on network storage please
[Re: Roger]
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old hand
Registered: 15/02/2002
Posts: 1049
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Quote:
Because the disks are already connected to the hardware RAID card?
Permanently?
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#273709 - 11/01/2006 05:57
Re: Advice on network storage please
[Re: TigerJimmy]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 18/01/2000
Posts: 5683
Loc: London, UK
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Quote:
Quote:
Because the disks are already connected to the hardware RAID card?
Permanently?
Unless someone finds a way to plug SATA disks into a PATA motherboard, then yes.
And getting a SATA card is beside the point -- 'cos I have one of those, and it supports hardware RAID, if you see what I mean.
_________________________
-- roger
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#273710 - 11/01/2006 07:13
Re: Advice on network storage please
[Re: Roger]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 24/12/2001
Posts: 5528
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Quote:
Unless someone finds a way to plug SATA disks into a PATA motherboard, then yes.
This? Not that you'd want to use it because performance and reliability probably go out the window if you do...
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#273711 - 11/01/2006 07:39
Re: Advice on network storage please
[Re: mlord]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 10/06/1999
Posts: 5916
Loc: Wivenhoe, Essex, UK
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All this talk of software RAID is interesting. I am starting to think about what my next storage platform will be. I currently have a 50GB hardware RAID5 array in an aged Dell PowerEdge 2400, which I am soon to out grow (especially now Eryl and I have started doing a Photo-a-day this year).
I was planning on replacing it with a mini-itx box with a hardware SATA RAID card and four 300GB external disks for a 600GB + hotspare RAID5 array.
I had thought about using a Mac mini, USB2 disks and software RAID. I'd ruled it out because I though software RAID would be too slow.
Does anyone have any experience of how well software RAID on OSX works ?
P.S. If I went for the Mac mini I would wait for the Intel version, as I expect it to have a bit more grunt than the G4 one
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Remind me to change my signature to something more interesting someday
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#273712 - 11/01/2006 11:03
Re: Advice on network storage please
[Re: andy]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 24/12/2001
Posts: 5528
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Somebody I know is using software RAID on a Mac mini and a huge load of Firewire HDs to store his DVD collection. He's quite impressed with it and it seems quite robust. His previous system was using Linux but it was flakey as hell due to the general crappiness of IEEE1394 support in Linux.
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#273713 - 11/01/2006 11:51
Re: Advice on network storage please
[Re: pedrohoon]
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member
Registered: 09/03/2003
Posts: 121
Loc: Iowa
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I like my ReadyNAS X6 which I use in combination with a Buffalo LinkTheater to view DVDs, AVIs, XVIDs, DIVXs, and DIVX-HDs.
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#273714 - 11/01/2006 14:38
Re: Advice on network storage please
[Re: Gleep]
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enthusiast
Registered: 18/02/2002
Posts: 335
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Does that player support dvd playback with dvd menus?
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#273715 - 11/01/2006 15:01
Re: Advice on network storage please
[Re: eliceo]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 08/03/2000
Posts: 12341
Loc: Sterling, VA
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Well, it's also a regular DVD player, so I don't see why it wouldn't. As far as I know all these networkable DVD players are also fully functional standalone DVD players.
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Matt
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#273716 - 11/01/2006 15:20
Re: Advice on network storage please
[Re: Dignan]
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enthusiast
Registered: 18/02/2002
Posts: 335
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Most of the networked dvd players won't play dvds with menu over network, they will play dvd menus if you insert the physical disc though.
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#273717 - 11/01/2006 21:51
Re: Advice on network storage please
[Re: eliceo]
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member
Registered: 09/03/2003
Posts: 121
Loc: Iowa
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Quote:
Does that player support dvd playback with dvd menus?
It does if you put the DVD in the disc drawer.
No, but many dvds startup with FBI warnings, previews, or just plain long intros before you can select what you want. I rip things using AutoGK to XVID at a very high quality setting with the soundtracks of choice, DTS and 5.1 DD both work. It even supports having more than one. I make each episode, extra, or feature its own avi file put it in an appropriate directory structure and I don't miss the menus. The ReadyNAS is it's own uPnP server so I don't have to run any server software on my workstation. Buffalo's own Terastation does this too, but it is software not hardware raid-5, doesn't use SATA drives and definitely is not as fast as the ReadyNAS. I have a terastation too and it works fine, I just think the ReadyNAS is a better unit. I like the ReadyNAS's uPnP interface better too. Both drill down into directories, but with the terastation you have to select first whether you want a picture, video, or music. The ReadyNAS just drills down and if you click on a picture it views it, if you click on music it plays it, if you click on a video it shows it. The terastation will tell you invalid file format if you click on an mp3 file and you had selected pictures.
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#273718 - 12/01/2006 06:07
Re: Advice on network storage please
[Re: mlord]
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Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 08/02/2002
Posts: 3411
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Quote:
Quote:
Mark, does your statement hold true for RAID5, or do the hardware controllers make a difference there?
Some of the hardware solutions may be faster doing writes to RAID5 than the Linux s/w RAID, especially when an older host CPU is involved.
But on modern CPUs, they've got tons of cycles to burn (rarely is a CPU anywhere near fully loaded), and the hardware interrupt handlers generally get priority, and Linux s/w RAID almost always beats hardware. Unless your hardware RAID card has megabytes of cache or something extra like that to boost it.
I'm doing work for a very very major server vendor, and Linux s/w RAID is what they're going with, for good reason.
Cheers
A lot of 'hardware' raid cards really aren't anyway. Most of the consumer cards are really software raid - the raid is done in the driver.
But even some of the real hardware RAID cards are often slower than linux software RAID. Even for RAID5 with its parity calculations. We just stopped using 3ware hardware RAID for terabyte-sized RAID5 arrays and switched to linux SW RAID after we found it to be nearly 3 times as fast. Our application has many files being continuously appended with frequent reads. (It's a log store device)
_________________________
Mk2a 60GB Blue. Serial 030102962
sig.mp3: File Format not Valid.
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#273719 - 12/01/2006 17:19
Re: Advice on network storage please
[Re: pedrohoon]
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addict
Registered: 09/06/1999
Posts: 559
Loc: Newfoundland, Canada
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I got a D-Link DNS-120 with 2 usb ports on it. It says you can use a thumbdrive but I don't know if that would include a USB card reader. I'd try it out for you but I don't have a USB reader unfortunately. If I come across one I'll give it a shot for my own knowledge and to share with the bbs.
Rene
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12 gig empeg Mark II, SN: 080000101 30 gig RioCar SN: 30103114 My blog
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#273720 - 14/01/2006 10:36
Re: Advice on network storage please
[Re: ShadowMan]
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enthusiast
Registered: 06/08/2002
Posts: 333
Loc: The Pilbara, Western Australia
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That would be great if you happen to be able to do that!
Thanks!
_________________________
Peter.
"I spent 90% of my money on women, drink and fast cars. The rest I wasted." - George Best
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#273721 - 16/01/2006 15:19
Re: Advice on network storage please
[Re: pedrohoon]
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addict
Registered: 09/06/1999
Posts: 559
Loc: Newfoundland, Canada
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I borrowed a SD-Card USB reader and plugged it into the D-Link unit. Nothing at first. I then plugged in the SD-Card, still nothing showed up. I loaded up the web admin page and restarted the D-Link and lo and behold the SD-Card is there. I have copied to and from it and it seems to work nicely. I can't play too much with the unit as it is a bulk storage dump for the network users here and they tend to get upset when things aren't available. Let me know if you have any more questions and I'll be glad to help. Rene
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12 gig empeg Mark II, SN: 080000101 30 gig RioCar SN: 30103114 My blog
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#273722 - 18/01/2006 02:53
Re: Advice on network storage please
[Re: ShadowMan]
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enthusiast
Registered: 06/08/2002
Posts: 333
Loc: The Pilbara, Western Australia
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Thanks very much for the help, that answers my question definitely.
Thank you.
_________________________
Peter.
"I spent 90% of my money on women, drink and fast cars. The rest I wasted." - George Best
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