#269728 - 18/11/2005 21:35
Re: Wal-Mart - The High Cost of Low Price
[Re: wfaulk]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 14/01/2002
Posts: 2858
Loc: Atlanta, GA
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Then again, they've also made the choice that I can't listen to Nirvana's "Rape Me" or read Maxim
To be fair, you can listen to that all you want. You just can't buy it at their store.
_________________________
-Jeff
Rome did not create a great empire by having meetings; they did it by killing all those who opposed them.
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#269729 - 18/11/2005 22:13
Re: Wal-Mart - The High Cost of Low Price
[Re: JeffS]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
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True, but in some cases, that means I have to drive to the next large town to get it. (Of course, it may be possible that if the Wal-Mart wasn't there, I'd have to do that anyway. Also, online retailers make that less of a concern.) Fortunately, folks can buy a copy of Scarface. So chainsaw murders depicted graphically? That's okay. Some scantily clad women? No way, dude.
_________________________
Bitt Faulk
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#269730 - 18/11/2005 23:19
Re: Wal-Mart - The High Cost of Low Price
[Re: wfaulk]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 13/02/2002
Posts: 3212
Loc: Portland, OR
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Quote:
I don't think that it's right that a pharmacist can refuse to fill a prescription at all
If there is only one pharmacist at a pharmacy, then yes, that can be a problem, but otherwise, I don't have a problem with it. To me, that's no different than me having the ability at work to tell my boss "you know, I'm not comfortable working on a film with this subject matter -- it goes against my ethical values." They'll find someone else to do the work, and assign me something else. I've never had to do that, but I don't want to give up that right. If it comes down to it, I'll quit. What if the pharmacist quit over an issue like this? Then you not only have no pharmacist to give you Plan B, but you have no pharmacist to give you any of the other drugs, either.
I recognize that it's a slippery slope, though...
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#269731 - 19/11/2005 00:27
Re: Wal-Mart - The High Cost of Low Price
[Re: matthew_k]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 08/07/1999
Posts: 5543
Loc: Ajijic, Mexico
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Well you said yourself you already have two grocery stores. Once they go out of business, that should be 30k people per wallmart
Both Fred Meyer and Safeway are large chain stores that are not about to go out of business. And there are two of each of them in this town. So there is no shortage of shopping opportunities, but there is a shortage of competition in the grocery area.
So... two WalMarts, two Fred Meyer stores, two Safeway Stores, spread not among 60K people, but realistically 30K because people who live 40 miles away are not shopping every week, and due to a sizeable military presence (an army base and an air force base so that many people do their shopping at the military-subsidized PX) would only leave 5000 people per WalMart, not 30,000. Figure a third of them to be children, that leaves us about 3,000 people per store.
Let's see, open 7am to 10pm 7 days a week, that's 105 hours per week. If every one of the 3,000 people shopped at their favorite WalMart once a week, that would come to about 30 customers an hour. There would be about a two to one ratio of employees to customers, not a recipe for financial success.
tanstaafl.
_________________________
"There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch"
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#269732 - 19/11/2005 00:38
Re: Wal-Mart - The High Cost of Low Price
[Re: canuckInOR]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
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Well, first, making a movie hardly has health concerns.
Second, if the pharmacist is also a member of the KKK, would it be okay for him to refuse antibiotics to his non-white customers?
_________________________
Bitt Faulk
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#269733 - 19/11/2005 01:02
Re: Wal-Mart - The High Cost of Low Price
[Re: drakino]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 19/09/2002
Posts: 2494
Loc: East Coast, USA
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Quote:
The new aspect will wear off, the smaller stores in the shopping centers will be closed, and the place will be abandoned.
Humanity, driven by instinctive greed, is a parasite. My current AIM profile quote sums it up nicely:
"What would make humans not want to take a chance on keeping our planet alive and well? Are these people so sick they can't see anything but themselves and therefore no one or nothing else matters to them? Is money really that evil? Is money the devil that christians speak of? Does money make people wish for death and not for life? If the planet dies we all die. There is no God/Goddess that can save us from ourselves. Why bother saving stupid people that love to kill everything in their way, even their own home?" - http://www.alternet.org/envirohealth/22008/
In other news, my local Shop Rite grocery store now offers online shopping through MyWebGrocer.com. Excelent! Since I get the same stuff every two weeks, I save my shopping list online, and in a few clicks, the order is in to the store. Someone runs around the store putting together my order, and 4 hours later, I can go pick it up. Two hours of grocery shopping (and 30 mins of writing the list) reduced to $10 service fee. Sadly, I feel like all the other (seems to be) snobs who use the service, having the clerk pack their groceries their big fancy cars. And I miss going into the store, I really do. But I can't resist the efficiency.
If only everything could be bought online, we'd have ultimate choice without all the wasted time wandering in the store.
_________________________
- FireFox31 110gig MKIIa (30+80), Eutronix lights, 32 meg stacked RAM, Filener orange gel lens, Greenlights Lit Buttons green set
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#269734 - 19/11/2005 03:10
Re: Wal-Mart - The High Cost of Low Price
[Re: canuckInOR]
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new poster
Registered: 10/11/2005
Posts: 35
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So does that mean I can also refuse to write code if I don't like the purpose it will be used for? Or that a mechanic at the shop I go to can refuse to fix my Honda because he's morally opposed to imports? If someone didn't want to dispense drugs, he shouldn't have become a pharmacist in the first place. Or, apparently, he should have gotten a job at Wal-Mart.
If enough pharmacists decide they don't want to do their jobs and quit, demand will drive the salary for pharmacists up and some non-self-righteous-prick pharmacists will fill the void, which is fine by me.
_________________________
MkIIa #40104178, 22GB
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#269735 - 19/11/2005 03:30
Re: Wal-Mart - The High Cost of Low Price
[Re: wfaulk]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 14/01/2002
Posts: 2858
Loc: Atlanta, GA
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Quote:
So chainsaw murders depicted graphically? That's okay. Some scantily clad women? No way, dude.
Welcome to the US- I remember an online game a while back (neocron maybe?) that was trying to push the limits in both violence and sex. If memory serves they ended up having to release seperate versions for Europe and the US with the violence toned town for the European version and sex toned down for the US. Or maybe they released one version with both modifications- it was something like that.
_________________________
-Jeff
Rome did not create a great empire by having meetings; they did it by killing all those who opposed them.
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#269736 - 19/11/2005 04:44
Re: Wal-Mart - The High Cost of Low Price
[Re: wfaulk]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 20/01/2002
Posts: 2085
Loc: New Orleans, LA
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Hehe, I played Need for Speed: Underground for 3 months before I found out what Skeet means. It's repeated many times in one of the songs on the game. I'm sure the bigwigs at WalMart still don't know.
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#269737 - 19/11/2005 07:00
Re: Wal-Mart - The High Cost of Low Price
[Re: jpt]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 08/06/1999
Posts: 7868
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Quote:
Sorry, why do you need a contract for this? Why would a company buy space and then resell it at a loss (unless property values collapse in between)? And why would the original owner care?
Why the original owners would care is beyond me. But a friend of mine was looking at space in the area for a store he wanted to open (and ended up opening elsewhere). During his search, he got tired of coming across all these high priced leases for space in a building, so he considered trying to build his own building and then leasing out the space he wasn't using for his store. When he tried to do this, he was confronted with the statements in the contracts for the land that any space he leased must be priced at a certain value for a certain amount of years. It wasn't that he would take a loss, it was that the land owners were demanding such a high price for any commercial lease on the property. I don't have the full details as this was several months back, but I do remember him trying to do this both in this part of town, and also further north where Home Depot had bought a fair amount of land around their proposed store site.
Te insane part was by his calculations, if he bought a certain piece of land and built a building on it and leased out most of it, the building and land would be paid for in 5 years at the prices he would have to charge. Sounds like a great deal until you also realize that he couldn't lower the price just a bit to ensure he got a lease. Odds are, this part of town will slow in growth, and his forced price will look too high in just a few years.
He will probably only stay in the place he ended up for a short amount of time. Seems the owner likes raising the price yearly, and this ends up driving out the stores there over time. Having worked near this place for 5 years now, I can confirm this happens with quite a regular frequency. The shops there now weren't there back when I started. Most moved just a few blocks down the street to avoid the rising prices.
Commercial leases and land agreements seem to be horribly complex and just seemingly random in some of the stipulations.
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#269738 - 19/11/2005 13:27
Re: Wal-Mart - The High Cost of Low Price
[Re: drakino]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 13/09/1999
Posts: 2401
Loc: Croatia
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So, it is legal for former owner to retain control over the property of the current owner!? So much for sancrosanctity of private property...  Do you know whether anyone tried to test enforcability of those stipulations in court? Landowners probably do it because they still own some land in the neghborhood and imagine that high rents and businesses that can afford them will keep the value of their reminding plots high. I wonder what empty shop space does for land value...
_________________________
Dragi "Bonzi" Raos
Q#5196
MkII #080000376, 18GB green
MkIIa #040103247, 60GB blue
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#269739 - 19/11/2005 13:43
Re: Wal-Mart - The High Cost of Low Price
[Re: bonzi]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 13/07/2000
Posts: 4174
Loc: Cambridge, England
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Quote:
So, it is legal for former owner to retain control over the property of the current owner!? So much for sancrosanctity of private property... Do you know whether anyone tried to test enforcability of those stipulations in court?
Well, if it's part of the contract of the sale of the land then I imagine it's pretty ironclad. I know someone who pulled out of a house purchase because the seller was demanding a large cut of the proceeds if further houses were built in the huge back garden at any time in the next twenty years.
Peter
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#269740 - 19/11/2005 23:41
Re: Wal-Mart - The High Cost of Low Price
[Re: ]
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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#269741 - 19/11/2005 23:47
Re: Wal-Mart - The High Cost of Low Price
[Re: wfaulk]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 06/10/1999
Posts: 2591
Loc: Seattle, WA, U.S.A.
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Quote:
I imagine that's large part of Heather's objection. I've known about that for quite some time due to her. I think the best part is that Wal-Mart has made that moral judgement for all their pharmacists. I mean, I don't think that it's right that a pharmacist can refuse to fill a prescription at all, but Wal-Mart isn't even giving them that choice.
Agreed. I think it is the duty of pharmacists to provide those pharmaceuticals that have been legally prescribed (unless, say, they discern that a practioner is doing something completely wacko in which case it is their duty to report said practitioner). I don't have a huge problem with conscientous objector pharmacists. I just think they need to find another line of work.
Now Walmart -- or any other entity that would systematically attempt to deny women's access to Plan B -- what they are doing is immoral.
_________________________
Jim
'Tis the exceptional fellow who lies awake at night thinking of his successes.
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#269742 - 21/11/2005 02:46
Re: Wal-Mart - The High Cost of Low Price
[Re: ]
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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#269743 - 21/11/2005 04:33
Re: Wal-Mart - The High Cost of Low Price
[Re: bonzi]
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member
Registered: 06/04/2000
Posts: 158
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Yes, I've seen this sort of thing (cut of any future price rises due to housing development) several times in UK agricultural land sales. If I'm looking at buying land from someone with this idea I try and explain that in any commodity business if someone wants to buy a call option it has a premium; which in practical terms comes as a reduced price for the land. 9 out of 10 would-be sellers don't get this (and presumably have many people backing out of the deal as a consequence).
However two parties can agree to do any (legal) thing in a contract, and if one party fails they can be sued for damages. We can agree to give you a cut of future sales, or not charge a rent below X, or paint all the grass blue. Always read the small print...
Regards
Mark
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#269744 - 21/11/2005 19:50
Re: Wal-Mart - The High Cost of Low Price
[Re: jpt]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
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(very late response)
Yeah, it looks like that was a one-or-two time thing they did.
I think we can still all agree that they have some pretty aggressive business practices.
_________________________
Bitt Faulk
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#269745 - 21/11/2005 21:48
Re: Wal-Mart - The High Cost of Low Price
[Re: ]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 30/04/2000
Posts: 3810
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Just for fun, I decided to go check out Walmart.com's prices on point-and-shoot digital cameras. The results are pretty interesting:
(camera / walmart.com / bhphotovideo.com)
Canon SD450 / $329.54 / $299
Nikon Coolpix P2 / $399 / $329
So, when they've got the same exact camera, B&H seems to be creaming Wal-Mart. On the cheap end, Wal-Mart offers a 4MP Kodak Easyshare CD40 for $98.84. B&H doesn't offer that camera (it's probably made exclusively for Wal-Mart). The absolute cheapest digital camera offered by B&H is a 3MP Kodak Easyshare C300 for $109.95.
What's this mean? Wal-Mart is a great place if you're looking for the absolutely cheapest version of whatever it is that you're looking for. If you're looking for a more expensive, higher-quality part, it's entirely unclear why you'd bother looking at Wal-Mart.
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#269746 - 22/11/2005 00:57
Re: Wal-Mart - The High Cost of Low Price
[Re: FireFox31]
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addict
Registered: 13/06/2000
Posts: 429
Loc: Berlin, DE
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Unforunately for me, I can't shop at my fav food store anymore because I moved to CA. I'm still searching for a decent place around here. I find it so wierd that people could just make a list of things, and buy the same stuff every week.. each time I goto the store, I have to think about "what havn't I tried recently" and poke around until I find something new. I have my standard recepies, but I am always on the lookout for a change of pace. Food is like music.. it all tastes boring after the 100th time in a row.
_________________________
80gig red mk2 -- 080000125
(No, I don't actually hate Alan Cox)
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#269747 - 22/11/2005 00:59
Re: Wal-Mart - The High Cost of Low Price
[Re: wfaulk]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 13/02/2002
Posts: 3212
Loc: Portland, OR
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Quote:
Well, first, making a movie hardly has health concerns.
My example wasn't meant to be about "health concerns", but about dealing with personal ethics in the workforce. In the case where there are no other pharmacists available, the pharmacist is ethically bound to fill a legal prescription as ordered by a doctor. However, that same pharmacist should not be required to fill the prescription if he/she is morally against the use of that drug and there is another pharmacist available to fill the prescription. If there is no other pharmacist to dispense the drugs, and the "moral" pharmacist has issues doing so, then, as Jim suggested, it's time for that person to find a position.
Quote:
Second, if the pharmacist is also a member of the KKK, would it be okay for him to refuse antibiotics to his non-white customers?
That's absurd. There's a pretty big difference between racial bigotry, and a moral stance derived from a viewpoint that life begins at conception.
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#269748 - 22/11/2005 01:20
Re: Wal-Mart - The High Cost of Low Price
[Re: canuckInOR]
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addict
Registered: 14/01/2002
Posts: 510
Loc: NY
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That's absurd. There's a pretty big difference between racial bigotry, and a moral stance derived from a viewpoint that life begins at conception.
Let's play whatif...
Whatif someone truly believes blacks are evil and it is a sin in their book to associate with them in any way? Whatif they believe asians are the infidels and giving them lifesaving drugs is a one way ticket to hell? Why is this moral judgement different and unprotected?
As a matter of fact, these moral judgements are only tolerated when it comes to birth control? Why does society deem it okay for my pussy to be everybody's damn business, and their opinion carries more weight than mine, when I'm not given the same authority, hell, it's not acceptable for me to even have an opinion, over their penis?
Now for the public service announcement to dispell common pro lifer and churchgroup fed ignorance and misinformation:
Plan B, Preven, large doses of oral contraceptives, commonly known as the morning after pill, does not do a thing after conception. They work by supressing ovulation. There is much unproven speculation of a so called "post fertilization effect", meaning hormonal contraceptives create a hostile endometrium, but no proof, just political propaganda, often filled with other bent facts and untruths as those who assert the unproven post fertilization effect as truth (unlike existance of god, this is something which can be observed and quantified, so I'm gonna vote total horseshit on that one).
Point #2. The medical definition of pregnant is after implantation. Funny thing is, implantation naturally fails to occur between 20-60% of the time after conception. Without implantation, zygote gets flushed. Does this make god the master abortionist?
Edited because Heather is typing worse than usual. 104 hours without a cigarette can really mess one up.
Edited by Heather (22/11/2005 01:22)
_________________________
Heather
"I distrust those people who know so well what God wants them to do because I notice it always coincides with their own desires." -Susan B Anthony
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#269749 - 22/11/2005 01:21
Re: Wal-Mart - The High Cost of Low Price
[Re: jpt]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 13/02/2002
Posts: 3212
Loc: Portland, OR
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So does that mean I can also refuse to write code if I don't like the purpose it will be used for? Or that a mechanic at the shop I go to can refuse to fix my Honda because he's morally opposed to imports?
Absolutely, to both questions. If you are not willing to stand up for a particular personal value you holds (no matter where you derive it from), then you don't value it enough to call it a moral. Either that, or you consider being unethical as perfectly moral.
That might be okay for you, but it sure as hell isn't for me. I'm willing to quit my job if what I'm asked to do goes against my ethics, and my employer refuses to give me alternative work.
Quote:
some non-self-righteous-prick pharmacists
I'm sorry, but when did following one's ethics make one a "self-righteous-prick"? Because they aren't the same as your own ethics? As far as I'm concerned, comments like this put you squarely in the same camp you're denigrating.
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#269750 - 22/11/2005 01:24
Re: Wal-Mart - The High Cost of Low Price
[Re: canuckInOR]
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addict
Registered: 14/01/2002
Posts: 510
Loc: NY
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I'm sorry, but when did following one's ethics make one a "self-righteous-prick"? Because they aren't the same as your own ethics?
Actually, when said ethics lead you to force your will onto another persons body, it makes you a rapist, not a self righteous prick.
_________________________
Heather
"I distrust those people who know so well what God wants them to do because I notice it always coincides with their own desires." -Susan B Anthony
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#269751 - 22/11/2005 01:52
Re: Wal-Mart - The High Cost of Low Price
[Re: Heather]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 13/02/2002
Posts: 3212
Loc: Portland, OR
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Quote:
Quote:
That's absurd. There's a pretty big difference between racial bigotry, and a moral stance derived from a viewpoint that life begins at conception.
Let's play whatif...
Whatif someone truly believes blacks are evil and it is a sin in their book to associate with them in any way? Whatif they believe asians are the infidels and giving them lifesaving drugs is a one way ticket to hell? Why is this moral judgement different and unprotected?
Racial bigotry is based on percieved stereotypes and skin colour, which have nothing to do with whether a person is human -- regardless of anyone's convictions. The other boils down to when does "life" begin -- because it's pretty clear that wantonly taking life is wrong.
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As a matter of fact, these moral judgements are only tolerated when it comes to birth control? Why does society deem it okay for my pussy to be everybody's damn business,
I don't know, but I think it's wrong -- personally, I don't care about your pussy, let alone what you do with it. Not having a pussy, I can't possibly have the same perspective you do.
Quote:
Now for the public service announcement to dispell common pro lifer and churchgroup fed ignorance and misinformation:
Plan B, Preven, large doses of oral contraceptives, commonly known as the morning after pill, does not do a thing after conception.[...]
Interesting -- I've never had to deal with Plan B, so I admit to not knowing a thing about it. My above statements were made while considering the new abortifactant drug that Jim was talking about, which is what I thought Bit was referring to, and which I think is a bit elevated from "regular" birth control (which I'll define as anything that prevents your medical definition of pregnant).
Quote:
Point #2. The medical definition of pregnant is after implantation. Funny thing is, implantation naturally fails to occur between 20-60% of the time after conception. Without implantation, zygote gets flushed. Does this make god the master abortionist?
A not-so delicious irony, isn't it?
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#269752 - 22/11/2005 02:06
Re: Wal-Mart - The High Cost of Low Price
[Re: Heather]
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Quote:
Quote:
I'm sorry, but when did following one's ethics make one a "self-righteous-prick"? Because they aren't the same as your own ethics?
Actually, when said ethics lead you to force your will onto another persons body, it makes you a rapist, not a self righteous prick.
But if someone is required by law to fill your prescription, arenīt you forcing your will on them?
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#269753 - 22/11/2005 02:10
Re: Wal-Mart - The High Cost of Low Price
[Re: ]
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addict
Registered: 14/01/2002
Posts: 510
Loc: NY
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But if someone is required by law to fill your prescription, arenīt you forcing your will on them?
Not unless someone's forcing them to be a pharmacist. I don't take jobs I have ethical issues with, they shouldn't either.
_________________________
Heather
"I distrust those people who know so well what God wants them to do because I notice it always coincides with their own desires." -Susan B Anthony
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#269754 - 22/11/2005 02:35
Re: Wal-Mart - The High Cost of Low Price
[Re: Heather]
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Personally I think if itīs a free country you should be able to buy whatever drugs you want without prescriptions.
But you should also be able to refuse to do your job. If someone doesnīt like it they can complain to the employer, and it should be the employerīs decision what to do.
The only exception I can think of where people should be prosecuted for not doig their job is in an emergency. Like if a doctor refuses to help someone dying from a heartattack. Or in an extreme example, if youīre the only pharmicist around for miles and refuse to service someone with an immediately life-threatening condition.
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#269755 - 22/11/2005 08:03
Re: Wal-Mart - The High Cost of Low Price
[Re: Heather]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 13/09/1999
Posts: 2401
Loc: Croatia
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Quote:
104 hours without a cigarette...
Congratulations!
_________________________
Dragi "Bonzi" Raos
Q#5196
MkII #080000376, 18GB green
MkIIa #040103247, 60GB blue
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#269756 - 22/11/2005 08:09
Re: Wal-Mart - The High Cost of Low Price
[Re: SuperQ]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 13/09/1999
Posts: 2401
Loc: Croatia
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my fav food store
Mmmm, looks like it would be my favourite, too, were I living there...
Quote:
I find it so wierd that people could just make a list of things, and buy the same stuff every week.. each time I goto the store, I have to think about "what havn't I tried recently" and poke around until I find something new. I have my standard recepies, but I am always on the lookout for a change of pace. Food is like music.. it all tastes boring after the 100th time in a row.
I agree completely. Besides, I buy my fresh bread and milk daily, and fruits and veggies at least twice a week.
_________________________
Dragi "Bonzi" Raos
Q#5196
MkII #080000376, 18GB green
MkIIa #040103247, 60GB blue
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#269757 - 22/11/2005 21:59
Re: Wal-Mart - The High Cost of Low Price
[Re: bonzi]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 13/02/2002
Posts: 3212
Loc: Portland, OR
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Quote:
Quote:
I find it so wierd that people could just make a list of things, and buy the same stuff every week.. each time I goto the store, I have to think about "what havn't I tried recently" and poke around until I find something new. I have my standard recepies, but I am always on the lookout for a change of pace. Food is like music.. it all tastes boring after the 100th time in a row.
I agree completely. Besides, I buy my fresh bread and milk daily, and fruits and veggies at least twice a week.
I was talking about this a few months ago with a guy at work here, who is from Switzerland. It's essentially a completely different culture. Daily trips to the market are not the norm in North America. Part of the difference, is, I think, simply due to urban sprawl, and the car-culture we have here. We don't have mini-grocery stores on every corner here, where we just walk down to the corner store for fresh food -- what's more common is a 7-11 convenience store, which are more noted for selling liquor, porn mags, junk-food, and slurpees, than they are for their fresh produce (which some do actually carry). When it involves a 20 minute trip out of your way to get even your basic groceries, you're not going to want to make it more than you have to. I'm lucky -- I live within walking distance of (at least) 7 grocery stores, and pass two or three (depending on my route) on my way to/from work (to stay briefly on-topic, none of them are WalMart) -- so I do make frequent trips for fresh groceries.
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