I gotta tell you, I'm nervous about something bad happening to the data on my empeg.

I bought the 36 GB model, and I've spent countless hours over the last 6 months or so loading it with MP3s. A lot of those MP3s were from CDs that I don't own and from Napster, I admit - so they wouldn't be easy to replace. Of course, you also know how much time it takes to tweak all of those tags to be just how you want them too! What scares me is that I don't have a backup. If I had to try and do this all again, I'd be miserable.

I know that this has discussed here before, but I haven't read any good solutions yet. I would be interested in a device that could maybe attach to the USB on the empeg and allow you to do a streaming tape backup or something.

I need to protect my TIME investment!

Thoughts on this are appreciated.

- Jon

Of course, you also know how much time it takes to tweak all of those tags to be just how you want them too!

Question: Did you tweak the tags before putting them in Emplode, or after?

If you tweaked your tags ahead of time, then just use displayserver to grab the files off the empeg. If not, then some creative batch-mode programming might help (assigning tags based on the filenames reported in displayserver).

___________
Tony Fabris

Question: Did you tweak the tags before putting them in Emplode, or after?

I've done it both ways. Before MP3-TagStudio v2.1 came out, I found it very difficult to fix inconsistencies in v1-v2 tags. So if I had a LITTLE bit of tweaking, I'd copy to Emplode and THEN tweak. If I had no v2 tags, I'd fix pre-Empeg copying.

In any case...

1) Does the empeg somehow retain attributes from the original copy? If you tweak within Emplode, that's somehow less permanent?

2) Displayserver can copy files off the empeg? Hm. Well, I still need some kind of mass backup device... Streaming tape seems to make most sense.

- Jon

I found it very difficult to fix inconsistencies in v1-v2 tags. So if I had a LITTLE bit of tweaking, I'd copy to Emplode and THEN tweak.

Would it be safe to say that, even in the case of unsynched V1-V2 tags, that you at least filled out the V1 tag correctly? If so, I've sucessfully used the latest Tag Studio to simply strip off the V2 tags.

Does the empeg somehow retain attributes from the original copy? If you tweak within Emplode, that's somehow less permanent?

That's one way to look at it. Technically, here's the way it works:

Emplode only makes edits to the database, not to the MP3 files themselves. The tags within the MP3 files are untouched and haven't changed since you dropped them onto emplode.

So if you use another program (FTP, displayserver, whatever) to copy the MP3 files back off of the empeg, you're not copying the database entries you tweaked. You're just getting back the unchanged MP3 files.

___________
Tony Fabris

Emplode only makes edits to the database, not to the MP3 files themselves.

Ok, well, I really don't care one way or another... I just want to be able to back the whole thing up - soup to nuts. If something "bad" happened, I could at least save all of that work/time!

STREAMING TAPE!!!

- Jon

Right now, displayserver will do a single huge backup, including the database, I'm pretty sure. However, I don't think it takes dual-drive into account and it's got a 4gb limit bug. If I recall correctly. Frank, any chance of a new version?

___________
Tony Fabris

In reply to:

---

STREAMING TAPE!!!

---

I take it you like your tape drive :-)

I would like to know how far you get with this, as I'd love to be able to throw a complete backup of my unit onto a 15GB DLT tape at home.

I take it you like your tape drive :-)

No, I don't have one yet, but it's the only way I can think of that would backup 36 gigs easily...

I have a 2 gig JAZ drive, but that's not gonna work, and I have 11 gigs in my laptop, but that's not gonna work either!

That's why I think buying an inexpensive streaming tape drive with USB support could be a good solution...

- Jon

I know this might not be the best solution for most, but it's worked great for me...

just get a cheap burner and CD-R's. When you download or rip a friends disc, just back it up on CD-R, quick and easy. Then you can keep your computers hard drive mp3 free and have it all backed up in case of catastrophe. It's not what you are looking for, but it's a cheap solution to backing up before you upload. Better yet, buy a $250 80 gig drive just for mp3's and you're set.

Apologies, i didn't answer the question.. =]


|| loren.cox || 080000446 ||

No good, the empeg USB port is a slave, which is rather necessary for connecting it to a PC. A tape streamer would also be a slave, so you would need a host port on the empeg.

A simple program to dump a tar of the entire music partition across ethernet would be by far the easiest solution. You can batch that up at the PC end and dump to tape or wherever. We can't give you such a program for legal reasons, but I know for a fact that a half decent programmer could knock one up in a weekend (since a fully decent programmer managed it in a day).

Rob

No good

Ok, so that's out. Next obvious question... anyone HAVE something that can TAR the entire music partition across ethernet? If no, anyone care to write it??? ;-)

- Jon

Next obvious question... anyone HAVE something that can TAR the entire music partition across ethernet?

Yeah, like I said, Displayserver has that built in, but the current version has one or two small problems if I recall. Ask Frank "pretty please" for a way to get around that 4gb limit.

___________
Tony Fabris

Tony, does Displayserver tar as well? Or just backup... Hm. Would tar compress mp3 files enough for it to make a real difference?

- Jon

Tony, does Displayserver tar as well? Or just backup...

I can't remember whether it's a tar file or a GZ file, and honestly, I don't know the difference between the two. I think it's one of those, though.

Would tar compress mp3 files enough for it to make a real difference?

Due to the nature of the way data compression works, an MP3 file can't be compressed any further no matter what method you use. Nothing can be done about that, it's just the laws of mathematics.

I take it you're in the "I don't have enough disk space on my PC to store backups of my empeg's music" situation. Well, there's nothing that the Empeg can do to solve that problem for you. If you want this stuff backed up on tape or CD-R, you're going to have to get it onto your PC's hard disk somehow. Whether you do it in little chunks or all at once is up to you and up to what method you're using to back it up.

Shoulda backed it up before deleting it from the PC.

___________
Tony Fabris

I can't remember whether it's a tar file or a GZ file, and honestly, I don't know the difference between the two.

A .tar file is a container for other files with no compression. A .gz file is a single compressed file. So the two together - a .tar.gz file (or .tgz on silly systems that only allow one extension) offer similar functionality to .zip on Windows. Compression is usually better (especially if the archive contains many small files) but extracting individual files from the archive is more painful.

Displayserver gives you an uncompressed .tar, I believe, since mp3s don't compress much anyway.

Borislav

Why do I get the feeling that a useful utility to have on the Empeg would be one that updates the tags from the database?

Ok, I think I found a possible solution involving tape.

http://arkeia.com/downloadfree.html

This is a site that offers a backup program, and for free, you can get the server software for Linux, and 2 free type 2 client licenses. And Linux ARM happens to be one of the type 2 clients. So, in theory, this client could be installed, and from the server, complete or incremental backups could be done across ethernet.

I'll try it once I have my empeg later this month, since I already use the server on my network here at home.

Version 2.0 of displayserver will be a complete rewrite. I am currently still experimenting with the basic framework (using threads/forks/exec's) for maximum stability/performance/mem usage. I'm also awaiting v1.1 of the empeg-sw for compliance-testing. In the new version the tar file will be split up in 16 pieces per drive. fid-names consist of hex chars, so the easiest way to do this is tarring 1*, 2*, 3*, etc.
Anyway, I haven't got much time lately, but hope to have a stable ds2.0 version a few weeks after empeg 1.1 is publicly available.
As for backing up to tape, the easiest way to do so is having a linux PC with a tapestreamer connected to it. Set it up to allow the empeg to rsh into it by setting the .rhosts file in root's homedir. Copy a rsh-executable to the empeg and give the following command on the empeg:

tar cvf linuxpc:/dev/tape /drive0/fids /drive1/fids

to restore the complete tape to a clean empeg :

cd /

tar xvf linuxpc:/dev/tape

Frank van Gestel

This is strange, I've just posted the previous message and it is two hours older than other posts, which show up as being written at 12:xx AM today... Maybe the cause of the unread posts-bug?
12:xx AM == 00:xx AM ?

Frank van Gestel

Edited by fvgestel on 07/02/01 09:40 AM.

Greetings!

Hmm... That would be a great idea!!! Something to get the information from the database and update the associated file. Perhaps a front end could be written to extract the information from the database (or an export) and automatically update the file or call a third party tool to do the update... Something to think about... Sounds like a great idea!

By the way, I have done the CDR technique. I still have made many tag corrections and cleanup since then. The ability to update tags from the database to existing files would make life easier. Especially if it could be tied in with the sync process. Is this something for the wishlist for 1.11?

Paul G.
SN# 090000587 (40GB Green)

Sounds awesome! Looking forward to it!

___________
Tony Fabris

I hope that a solution comes out soon that is really easy. I don't really care if the tags are updated, as long as a copy of the database is backed up to. Ideally, it would be great if it were stable enough that I could backup my empeg to my PC harddrive, completely re-format the empeg, and then restore everything back to the empeg (maybe after installing the player software) from my PC backup and have it be just like it was before I started.

I'm not much of a hack, and even just finding the displayserver took me a full day of searching through links and searches on the board. Even then, I wondered if I would be able to figure out how to use it.

I realize that empeg has legal issues to worry about, and I realize that whoever wrote the displayserver is going WAY out of his way, but it sucks that someone has to be a hacker inorder to make a simple LEGIT back up. I have no interest in dumping all my music to a buddy's machine - I just want to save all my work. If my empeg got stolen, I'd be more worried about the data then the $1300 (by a thin margin maybe! :) ).

Also, why not just back up to an IDE harddirve? They are so cheap now that one drive could be used to back up an entire empeg. Just don't load any software on it (have it as an F: drive or whatever) and you really wont have to worry about it failing.

12gig Mk. II BLUE
Detroit, MI USA
www.PfeifferBeer.com

Hmm... That would be a great idea!!! Something to get the information from the database and update the associated file.

This is actually very simple, if it does not have to be very elegant. Use sample command-line ID3 tagger that comes with id3lib distro, and call it with appropriate options from a short Perl (or whatever) script that parses *1 file to update tags in the corresponding *0 file (*1 files are not database per se, but contain all the information database is constructed from). Granted, I am not sure whether id3lib with utils is available in binary ARM form. If not, some compiling is in order... (or one can do the whole thing on a PC, after ftp-ing the whole /drive0 and /drive1 over.) Nice excercise, anyway

I would have tried this this weekend, but my only home machine (an ancient laptop) has just died on me Oh, well...

Dragi "Bonzi" Raos
Zagreb, Croatia
Q#5196, MkII#80000376, 18GB green

I have over 80GB to deal with. (all my own music -no napster or net garbage and not on my Empeg all at once)
one solution would to simply use an adapter to convert the drive to a standard IDE connection and put the drive in your PC as a slave.
Then boot a Win 98SE floppy with ASPI drivers in order to see your SCSI tape drive (I use a Sony AIT 80 gigger)
then simply run Symantec GHOST (disk image app) and do a sector by sector dump of the drive to tape.
This would allow a complete full restore should your drive go belly up.
I have also done the burn to CDR thing since I started MP3 (waaaaaay back) and that allows me to sleep at night

However, this brings up a good question for Rob...
Why can't a backup function be enabled for the Empeg and use emplode to administer it?
Of course, the data would\could be dumped to a proprietary format single file that is not readable (encrypted) by anything else but the restore function used by emplode back to the Empeg.
No legal issues there.

I work for the largest backup company in the free world, so backup is always an issue for me.
It really is kinda silly that Empeg does not provide the ability or option to backup the DATA on your unit.
Empeg (SonicBlue) should really take a closer look at this.

12Gb MKII 080000516 Blue

Hm. Interesting idea, but there are a few things that scare me about it.

1. I'd be voiding my warranty by opening the case
2. I use a laptop with a docking station, and I'm not sure how I could slave a drive off of it

- Jon

Greetings!

I don't suppose that one of your client software packages could work in the debian / ARM environment??? I would be very interested if something like that could be done!!! I work for a major US telecommunications / cable / telegraph company, and I am very familiar / happy with your products! If I could get a client version that would work on the empeg, I could back it up to my local tape silo...

One note of caution with CDR backups. Even with the best media, slow burns and file verifications, I still get an occasional CRC error. I can usually pull the file in question by going to another drive, but it is still something to worry about.

Paul G.
SN# 090000587 (40GB Green)