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The BBC has located an Islamist website that has published a 200-word statement issued by an organisation saying it carried out the London bombings.
The organisation calls itself the Secret Organisation Group of al-Qaeda [literally the base] of Jihad Organisation in Europe.

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Thankfully a small scale attack compared to 9/11

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I hope everyone here is unaffected

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Al Qaeda is hardly shy about their intentions, either, once the deed is done.

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Al Qaeda is hardly shy about their intentions, either, once the deed is done.

Love or hate them, they have tended to follow through despite setbacks/losses. The supply of people willing to perform these kinds of acts just does not seem to be diminishing.

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I know of no one who loves them, thankfully. The thing is, for what they've been doing it doesn't seem like they need that many "willing followers".

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I wonder, if the state of Texas was being invaded by hordes looking to imprison the last Christians on planet earth, might we expect JeffS to wrap himself in dynamite and mingle among the invaders?

Nah, you guys would surely have turned me in by that point . . .

You make a good point that people will do what they have to do if they think their cause is just. Imagine how the American Revolution would be regarded if we hadn't won. Still, as internally consistent as their views might be, I've no difficulty sitting here and declaring their actions as wrong and evil. Not that you, Jim, or anyone else would have any such difficulty.

It is a sad day- I feel for those who have lost loved ones.

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I know of no one who loves them, thankfully. The thing is, for what they've been doing it doesn't seem like they need that many "willing followers".

I don't (think) I know anybody, either, but life is full of surprises. I once worked side-by-side with a guy for 6 months (on a psych ward, no less) before discovering that he spent his evenings recruiting for the KKK. Who knows what lies in the hearts of BBS lurkers?

I guess more to the point, I intentionally made that allowance because there definitely people out there who are feeling satisfaction over today's bloody events, and they all don't have some insane world view

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I hope everyone here is unaffected, since I can't reasonably hope that no one at all was.

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Well, there's a major difference between the American Revolution and the Al-Qaeda attacks. The American revolutionaries attacked the British military and consumable properties. As far as I know, they never attacked civilians or destroyed personal property, at least with intent.

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Well, there's a major difference between the American Revolution and the Al-Qaeda attacks. The American revolutionaries attacked the British military and consumable properties. As far as I know, they never attacked civilians or destroyed personal property, at least with intent.

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I don't believe you.

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_Imperial Hubris_

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I hope Brian is OK. Someone keep us posted if possible.

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I just heard from Brian. He's at his hotel in Holland. He's fine.

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Wow, that's the second time I've read that phrase today (here's the first.)

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I think the point here is that there is some amount of value in recognizing that these individuals are responding to something in a consistent way. Not that it is right or OK or even justifiable, but that there is a cause (or causes) for their actions.

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It’s scary to think that there are beliefs and events that would cause someone to think that blowing up civilians is just and appropriate, but such things exist. Even in Jim’s example above of a Texas invasion in search of Christians, I cannot imagine being driven to the extremes that these people have gone to.

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There is deep culture, religions, pain, and manipulation behind these attacks- I can’t even comprehend what these must be to cause these actions. But one thing is certain- insane people cannot plan these attacks. They were intelligent (somewhat) and deliberate. Which makes them all the more frightening.

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Confusing, but it *was* Kaplan's quote, after all.

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I wonder, if the state of Texas was being invaded by hordes looking to imprison the last Christians on planet earth, might we expect JeffS to wrap himself in dynamite and mingle among the invaders?

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Actually, knowing Jeff, he would tell them about his faith as they were capturing him. He would then do free concerts in prison and share his faith with the guards. And he'd be thankful for the unique opportunity to do so.

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I don't believe you.

You are not obliged to believe me.

I'm a welsher, so that's good.

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I guess I would separate "selfish","amoral", "sociopathic" and some other terms from "insane"

Me too. I don't want to have to call myself insane

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but I think psychiatrists dicker about this all the time. I think "insane" generally means not in touch with reality (and maybe hearing voices of people who don't excist, for example), but then you get into the whole reality thing.

I think my main point is that reducing all of theis to "insane" or "crazy" doesn't get us anywhere -- fighting an asymmetric war against ununiformed enemy has generally been a losing proposition short of complete incineration of all involved territories -- doesn't help us figure out what is going on or how to deal with it.

Well, ok, I think I'm in agreement with this, but if they really are just insane, well, then what?

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Of course, then there are those that are more concerned with how this tragedy will impact their stock portfolio...

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perhaps I should have asked whether Jeff would sacrifice his life and take the innocent lives of invaders' children, not if these invaders appeared poised to *imprison* Jeff and his children, but if their invasion looked like it would poison Jeff's children and deny them entry into the Kingdom of Heaven (or whatever afterlife suits your fancy). I consider it bizarre, but, seriously, if you believe in some Heaven and you believed you and your children could get there....save for the nasty actions of infidels/invaders/whatever...what measures would you be obliged to take?

Unfortunatly, the truth is you can't concieve of a situation where I would do this (unless it was something trully twisted like sacrificing myself and some innocents to save the planet from annihilation or something to that effect). I am a fundamentalist* (which is why you're picking on me ), and probably as fundamentalist about my faith as these bomers (or the ones who sent them), but the truth is that my faith is a bit different. Under my beliefe system there is nothing that could be done to warrant that kind of retribution. I do not believe a Christian is to wage Holy war, nor do I believe my children's faith could be poisened against the gospel as you suggest. I believe everyone makes their own personal choice about God and salvation, even if there are those trying to persuade you one way or the other. And THAT is a big difference between the kind of faith I have and those who are bombers. The Muslim faith (or that of these bombers) believes that a Muslim government will bring peace to the world, even if the people under it are not Muslims. This is kind of a topdown approach to faith and government. The Christianity I believe teaches that people make their individual decisions, which then can influence government- a bottom up approach to faith. Christianity has tried the top down approach before (the Crusades), but I do not find that consistent with my faith, nor do most Christians today.

The truth is that in a situation like you suggest, I would likely find myself dead for professing Christanity. Because as John said (and I actually consider it a high complement that he did, even with the note of humor), my approach would be to preach the Gospel to those who would persecute me. I agree I'd probably not be allowed to give any free concerts, though!

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But I am concerned that, in my jaded gloominess, I am becoming a bit abstract. What, forty-something probably nice people were killed today? And more likely to die in the next few days?

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Christianity has tried the top down approach before (the Crusades), but I do not find that consistent with my faith, nor do most Christians today.

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Funny you should mention something like that. When I got up this morning and read what happened on Google News, I went and turned on CNN (why I have no idea, and why I expected more than I got is a good question as well). A few minutes of inane BS chatter between the two talking heads and the guy turns to the camera and says "And coming up next... how will all this effect todays stocks..."

I couldn't f'n believe it. My disdain for news networks will never cease to gain momentum apparently.