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How would you define the difference between faith and superstition?

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Before this gets ugly, I will say my two cents worth and then run for cover.

Aw come on, this is not the first time we discuss similar questions politely (hence the warning)

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I would add that there seem to be connotations that faith is usually thought of as a more positive, complex / interrelated / singular system of beliefs, while superstition has more negative connotations, being more associated with individual events / actions / rituals that do not appear to be interrelated to each other.

Again, this is all perspective and point of view. You may not personally have faith, but still recognize something as faith if you share a common context. If you do not share a common understanding, any singular event seems a random instance, perhaps nonsensical out of context, and is often perceived as a superstition.

That is more or less the most people discussing there at LaterNet got: faith is, shall we say, more complex and all-encompassing, while superstition is more particular and unsystematic.

But the problem is with the second part of Tony's definition: all too often this boils down to 'my faith is faith, others are superstitions'. The author has some fresh examples from American political life.

BTW, I saw there a guy declaring himself a 'practicing Atheist'. How the heck does one practice atheism?! In a Church of No Particular God!? (I asked him that and am expecting the answer with interest )

Others?

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I saw there a guy declaring himself a 'practicing Atheist'. How the heck does one practice atheism?!

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To an atheist, religious faith looks identical to superstition. Belief in magic is the same, whether the magic is perpertrated by deities from a Bible or by pagan forces.

To a theist, superstition means a belief in magics other than those found in their religion, and would therefore be considered specifically sacreligious. There's a clear difference.

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Taking a proposition "on faith" means to consciously and willfully refuse to examine the facts.

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That's beautiful, Tony, and of course, exactly on the point.

Yeah, one of many songs I wish I'd written.

It was N6mod from this very BBS who turned me on to Dar Williams, now I'm like this huge slobbering fan.

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When the two are in disharmony, well that’s when I work to find a solution between the two. Often I have to throw up my hands and say “I don’t know”, because I just can’t resolve the difference.

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But the problem is with the second part of Tony's definition: all too often this boils down to 'my faith is faith, others are superstitions'. The author has some fresh examples from American political life.

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What makes one premise more right than another? Well, if when put into practice it is born out, I guess. For many, like me, spiritual faith has born out, just like reason and logic.

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What about the people who don’t think that critical thinking is of any value (and there are plenty of those)?

I invite them to live by their convictions and give up medicine, tools, shelter, cars, food, army that defends them from infidels and other such illusions 'brought to you by critical thinking'.

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First, "borne".

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Second, please define how your faith has been borne out.

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What about the people who don’t think that critical thinking is of any value (and there are plenty of those)?

I invite them to live by their convictions and give up medicine, tools, shelter, cars, food, army that defends them from infidels and other such illusions 'brought to you by critical thinking'.

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This, of course, is where Tony pops in to link to the skeptic’s dictionary about Confirmation Bias.

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This, of course, is where Tony pops in to link to the skeptic’s dictionary about Confirmation Bias.

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Heh. I wasn't gonna do that. You know what you're talking about. You're someone who maintains your faith and convictions, even when you know that there are other possible explanations for your experiences. I respect that.

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I wonder in some way if the reason your faith exists isn't related to how I see a face in a 3-prong electrical outlet.

Naw, confirmation bias and pareidolia are two separate things.

(see, got the link in there anway! )

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BTW, I saw there a guy declaring himself a 'practicing Atheist'. How the heck does one practice atheism?! In a Church of No Particular God!? (I asked him that and am expecting the answer with interest )

Others?

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"It's one of those irregular verbs, isn't it?
I have an independant mind,
you are eccentric,
he is round the twist"

"That's another of those irregular verbs, isn't it?
I give confidential briefings,
you leak,
he is being prosecuted under section 2a of the official secrets act"

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Maybe I have my terms confused, but I always thought a "non devout" atheist was better described by the term "agnostic."

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Maybe I have my terms confused, but I always thought a "non devout" atheist was better described by the term "agnostic."

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the classical definition of "Agnostic" is more proactive than that- not only does he or she not know, but believes that one CANNOT know.

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Makes sense to me that the finite mind isn't wired to comprehend the infinite

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One of the most immediate illustrations has been my wife’s physical battles.

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A question that can be equally posed to theists, by the way.

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Exactly, my point is that neither position is of itself any more rational than the other, whatever those rational atheists would have us believe.

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Of course you can always say that my faith is just a placebo that produces results because it is the belief that is important, not the substance.

Of course

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One of the most immediate illustrations has been my wife’s physical battles [...] it was faith that told me it was my job to serve her no matter what the cost to myself; it was faith that told her to trust my judgment for the hard decisions, even when she disagreed.

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I realize that not being in my skin, there’s no way to really understand what this is and has been like.

True, but as you know, I never stop trying

Perhaps (in this respect) we do not differ that much: I say you are good and strong, you say faith or Christ gives you strength and will to do what you know is good; OTOH, perhaps I trivialize your convictions. See 'placebo' above

I wrote more here, but you have immesurably more important things on your mind now. I hope everything will turn out right with the surgery tomorrow. My regards to your brave wife.

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Naw, confirmation bias and pareidolia are two separate things.

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According to Brugger, "The propensity to see connections between seemingly unrelated objects or ideas most closely links psychosis to creativity ... apophenia and creativity may even be seen as two sides of the same coin." Some of the most creative people in the world, then, must be psychoanalysts and therapists who use projective tests like the Rorschach test or who see patterns of child abuse behind every emotional problem. Brugger notes that one analyst thought he had support for the penis envy theory because more females than males failed to return their pencils after a test. Another spent nine pages in a prestigious journal describing how sidewalk cracks are vaginas and feet are penises, and the old saw about not stepping on cracks is actually a warning to stay away from the female sex organ.

Sadly, this lends support to some or our friend's sceptic attitude towards science and its supposedly rational approach. Then again, many of my physicist ex-colleagues would not grant a psychoanalysts the status of scientist if put under torture.

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Only with regard to the question about the initial origin of the universe itself.

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If we're trying to stick to any semblance of critical thinking, agnostism is the only stance that makes makes objective sense; it makes no more sense to be convinced there is not a supreme intelligence behind it all than that there is, though there's never any dearth of folks cxompletely invested in both.

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With regard to other, more tangible questions such as the origins of the species on this planet, continuing to insist on a Creator in the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary is the more irrational of the two viewpoints.

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I hope everything will turn out right with the surgery tomorrow. My regards to your brave wife.

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Sadly, this lends support to some or our friend's sceptic attitude towards science and its supposedly rational approach.

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It is remarkable to me that you find faith in your wife's situation which to me would serve as sufficient argument against the existence of God, or at least a God that cares about me. I find it hard to reconcile the viewpoint that the good things in life prove out the existence of God, but the bad things don't decrease the likelihood of his existence.

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It did turn out well, and they think they've fixed the problem. We'll see.

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Does that mean that they believe she'll be freed of the constant pain?

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Of course, all that just leads to the question of why not shoot yourself in the head the first chance you get, end all the suffering, and go live with God? Or, if you're going to make an argument about suicide, just live your life at a level of extreme risk helping everyone you can, and die trying to save a Tutsi from an extermination raid.