I can't get my empeg to be recognised either by JEmplode (with ethernet) or via Emplode (installed on Mac, using Virtual PC 4.0, with ethernet or USB).

I've read some other posts about this and they mention IP addresses and such - so how come the emplode instructions don't mention any of that?

Can anyone guide the way?

Thanks

Sally (getting really frustrated)

Because when the manual was written, emplode didn't support Ethernet.


Roger - not necessarily speaking for empeg

We need to write an ethernet FAQ. I wouldn't know where to start, it's all so complicated... :-)

But before we go any farther, now that you've got virtual PC working, can you at least get it to recognize the Empeg via the serial port?

Now, on to ethernet, because it's your best bet.

First: You need to know your Mac's IP address, and whether it's a fixed address or if it gets the address from a DHCP server (for future reference- and also we don't know whether you're trying this from your home network or from work).

Second, you need to be sure the TCP/IP software is even installed on the VirtualPC at all (it might not be). Go into control panel/network, there should be a TCP/IP protocol installed.

Third, do you have any other hard-wired ethernet devices on the network that you can ping to make sure everything else (besides the empeg) is working on TCP/IP

Fourth, are you getting a proper link light at both ends of the ethernet cable that you're using to connect the empeg to... wait... what are you connecting the empeg to? Anyway, if you're not getting a link light, then you need the "other" kind of cable (either crossover or non-crossover).

Let's get these things ironed out before moving on to deeper diagnostics...

___________
Tony Fabris

One other thing I just thought of...

I don't know how VirtualPC works... I assume that it doesn't come with the operating system, right? You still need the Windows installation CD in order to run Windows on VirtualPC, right?

Well, which version of Windows did you install into VirtualPC? If you installed Win95, that's why USB doesn't work. USB will only work on Windows 98.

Maybe it's that simple.

___________
Tony Fabris

can you at least get it to recognize the Empeg via the serial port?
No, 'cos I haven't got a serial cable adaptor...

First: You need to know your Mac's IP address
Where can I find this?

and whether it's a fixed address or if it gets the address from a DHCP server
How can I find out?

Second, you need to be sure the TCP/IP software is even installed on the VirtualPC at all (it might not be). Go into control panel/network, there should be a TCP/IP protocol installed.
Yep, it's there.

Third, do you have any other hard-wired ethernet devices on the network that you can ping to make sure everything else (besides the empeg) is working on TCP/IP
Firstly, I don't know anything about pinging! (Didn't realise you had to have a computer science degree to own a car stereo!!) Secondly, there's no network as such - I 'm just sat at home with my laptop.

Fourth, are you getting a proper link light at both ends of the ethernet cable that you're using to connect the empeg to
Where's the light supposed to be? I'm using a crossover cable, and I've also tried a reguar ethernet cable.

... wait... what are you connecting the empeg to?
To the ethernet port of my Mac.

Hope this doesn't sound too hopeless! : (

Sally

It's Windows 98.

Sally

The first thing to do is wait until the first "virgin" connect fails. At this point (if JEmplode follows emplode) you should get a dialog box with an "Options" button.

Using "Options" you should be able to select the physical route available in case emplode/J didn't detect the unit; then you can force it to look for the unit.

If this fails, then there's genuinely something up.

One of the few remaining Mk1 owners... #00015

Using "Options" you should be able to select the physical route available in case emplode/J didn't detect the unit; then you can force it to look for the unit.
Yeah, I've forced it to look, but it doesn't find anything (with Emplode). With JEmplode it found the empeg, but when I selected it and pressed OK, nothing happened.

Is there anything I should press on the actual empeg itself? Can it be restarted somehow?

Sally

We need to write an ethernet FAQ. I wouldn't know where to start, it's all so complicated... :-)

I think I'd argue the toss on that one Tony, it's not. It's bad explanations that make it over-complicated. Yours on most subjects are excellent - however, the ones I've seen on this board relating to ethernet aren't.

This lays me wide open to "well, why don't you write an explanation, then?"

- to which I rudely reply "Bog off!" 'cos it's the usual "how long is a piece of string?" answer.

If you are stuck, write and bribe me with low-quality, high alcohol content beer. You might be lucky - go ahead, make my day.

One of the few remaining Mk1 owners... #00015

I've forced it to look, but it doesn't find anything (with Emplode).

That could be an incompatibility issue with the emulator. Strike one.

With JEmplode it found the empeg, but when I selected it and pressed OK, nothing happened.

Then that's either a bug in JEmplode (it can see the unit but can't connect) or more likely a problem with the supporting library classes that do the connection.

2 Q's:

- what is the physical path you are using to connect (USB, Serial, Ethernet)?
- have you installed (as per DMZ's instructions) the upgrade fix to the comms class in the JVM (Java Virtual Machine)?




One of the few remaining Mk1 owners... #00015

So forgive, gentle sir, then why the boggin' heck hasn't it been updated?

PS. Merry still sighs about you in her sleep

One of the few remaining Mk1 owners... #00015

can you at least get it to recognize the Empeg via the serial port?
No, 'cos I haven't got a serial cable adaptor...

Thought you said you did in the other thread...

First: You need to know your Mac's IP address
Where can I find this?
and whether it's a fixed address or if it gets the address from a DHCP server
How can I find out?

I've got NO idea, since I know nothing about macs. MComb?

(Didn't realise you had to have a computer science degree to own a car stereo!!)

You are right... it was designed to simply work when you plug it into the USB port... of a windows computer...

Where's the light supposed to be? I'm using a crossover cable, and I've also tried a reguar ethernet cable.

There's a pretty blue one on the back of the Empeg (oddly, it's next to the USB port rather than the ethernet port, but it is the ethernet link light). On the Mac, I don't know where it is- but most computers have a small green LED somewhere near the plug. It's possible that the Mac doesn't implement a hardware link-light and it's in software, appearing somewhere on the macintosh screen. Anyway, that's the first step, making sure you have a link light.

Secondly, there's no network as such - I 'm just sat at home with my laptop.

Okay, then you're not running DHCP. Interestingly enough, if you were to plug in your Empeg at work, everything would probably magically start working because DHCP would be active at your work, you might wanna give that a try just for fun.

Okay, for your home system...

Okay, let's try something. Hopefully using the serial cable adapter and Virtual PC, use the Emplode to program to connect to the Empeg player. Use the "Configure player" option to set the player to be on the fixed IP address of 10.1.1.1, with a netmask of 255.255.255.0 and leave the gateway blank.

Then, on your Mac, find out where to put in your ethernet settings. Then tell it to be 10.1.1.2 with the 255.255.255.0 netmask and leave the gateway blank.

Reboot everybody, including the player (important after changing IP address stuff).

Run your Java Emplode program and see if it'll see the Empeg at 10.1.1.1.

You can do the same with the ethernet settings in Windows with the VirtualPC software, I think. It's possible that the virtualPC software will be smart and pull its ethernet settings from the mac.

Anyway, this fixed-IP stuff might screw up some other existing settings on your network, so be prepared to write down all your existing settings so you can change them back once we're sure this works at all. This is just an experiment to see if everything is functioning. If we can get this far, then later we'll worry about integrating it into your home network with the airport and everything.

___________
Tony Fabris

There's a pretty blue one on the back of the Empeg
Oh, I definitely saw that earlier.

if you were to plug in your Empeg at work, everything would probably magically start working because DHCP would be active at your work, you might wanna give that a try just for fun.
I doubt it - I work alone! Networking is totally alien to me.

I'll run through that other stuff now.

Thanks again!

- what is the physical path you are using to connect (USB, Serial, Ethernet)?
I've got no idea I'm afraid. Where would this be entered?

- have you installed (as per DMZ's instructions) the upgrade fix to the comms class in the JVM (Java Virtual Machine)?

Yes.

Oh, and one other thing worth trying. If you can use the serial adapter and Emplode, make sure to upgrade both Emplode on your VirtualPC and the empeg player itself to version 1.02. I dunno if that has anything to with why JEmpeg's having trouble finding it, but it's worth a shot.

___________
Tony Fabris

Use the "Configure player" option...
This option is blanked out until you have connected to the player - so I'm stuck!

Use the "Configure player" option...
This option is blanked out until you have connected to the player - so I'm stuck!

Right- that's why I said you needed the serial adapter. The serial adapter is the lowest common denominator and should be the one that works. From there, you can do things like change the player's IP address to get the ethernet connection running.

Again, sorry about all this complexity. The thing was designed to link with a Windows machine, and for Windows users you just plug the thing in and it works...

___________
Tony Fabris

Crewe-

A guy at work has been using his Mac to load his empeg player using JEmpeg, a nice little java app. like Emplode. Here's what he said to do.

The only thing that you need to do is:
1) Find a PC, load up the Emplode software and connect to your empeg through the USB port (not the ethernet).
2) Start Emplode and go into options and specify a specific address, something like 10.0.1.185.

Once you have configured the player to a specific IP address, you can use JEmpeg with your Mac and skip Virtual PC completely by connecting your empeg to your Mac using the cross-over cable you mentioned earlier.

I know that this takes you in a different direction, but I hope this helps...

First: You need to know your Mac's IP address
Where can I find this?
and whether it's a fixed address or if it gets the address from a DHCP server
How can I find out?

I've got NO idea, since I know nothing about macs. MComb?

Go to your apple menu, and down to Control Panels. Select TCP/IP. Enter these settings.
Connect via: Ethernet
Configure: Manually
IP Address: 10.1.1.2
Subnet: 255.255.255.0
Router: (empty if possible, if not 10.1.1.2)
Name Server: (empty)
Search Domains: (empty)

Like Tony said, be sure to record your current settings first because this is going to disable your dial up connection until you put them back (we can set you up for both later). You do not need to reboot your mac.

Depending on the Mac model you probably don't have a link light. If the link light on the empeg comes on that is good enough.

I do not have a copy of VirtualPC handy, but there is an option for it to share the macs network connection or use its own. There may also be an option to disable networking entirely. These will be under an options or preferences menu. Make sure networking is enabled and tell it to share the Mac's network connection.

-Mike

FYI VirtualPC does come with an OS. Your choice of Win98, dos, or RedHat linux (at different prices).

-Mike

Yeah, I've forced it to look, but it doesn't find anything (with Emplode). With JEmplode it found the empeg, but when I selected it and pressed OK, nothing happened.

Discovery does work with Virtual PC and Emplode (at least for me). If jemplode did in fact see it and emplode did not than my guess is that there is a configuration issue with windows or VPC. Can you clarify what happened when you pressed OK under jemplode? Did the window go away/did another small window come up/did jemplode quit?

-Mike

OK, one more thing just occured to me. You have an airport base station right, and I am guessing the mac you are using is a laptop or something else with a wireless card that would normally get internet access through the airport. Is that right? If so try this...

The airport base station will do DHCP by default so.
Go to your TCP/IP control panel on your mac and set it to
Connect via: Airport Card
Configure: using DHCP Server
Close the control panel
Using your cross over ethernet cable connect your empeg to the Airport base station.
At this point, the empeg and the Mac should be able to get all needed info from the airport

At this point jemplode on your mac should be able to connect to the empeg with no additional configuration.

-Mike

Nooo, what kind of cable are you using to connect your Mac to the Empeg?

One of the few remaining Mk1 owners... #00015

Hi,

This sounds like it makes sense, but can you clarify things a bit? I am connected to the internet using the Airport, but my settings say configure manually. Should I enter this IP address somewhere within JEmplode? Or should I switch the airport to configure via DHCP? Then, once I've put the ethernet cable into the airport from the empeg, what's supposed to happen? Do I leave it plugged in whilst I try to use JEmplode?

Thanks!

Sally

Can you clarify what happened when you pressed OK under jemplode? Did the window go away/did another small window come up/did jemplode quit?

I launch JEmplode. The 'select connection' screen appears, and 'empeg car at 0.0.0.0' appears in the select connection box, (which is more than I can say for Emplode under Virtual PC!) so I highlightthe empeg car and press ok and the box goes away and nothing happens. So I go back to the select connection box, highlight the empeg, check the options, press 'refresh', it searches and then stops searching and stays in the connection box. I press ok, nothing happens. Back to the main screen with nothing there except a small 'Downloading...' folder in the top left panel, which does nothing when I click on it and does nothing if I leave it for an hour either!

An ethernet crossover cable. I've also tried USB and regular ethernet. I can't try serial 'cos I'm on a modern Mac and they don't have serial outputs any longer. I could use my serial -> USB transformer I suppose, but I think that would be asking for more trouble, and I'd still need a PC -> Mac serial transformer to plus into the other transformer!

Well, I'm not surprised - an IP address of 0.0.0.0 is (essentially) illegal. It shows the empeg is not configured with a suitable valid IP address. You really need to make a serial connection to the unit somehow to set this, or get the unit to someone with a small network that supports DHCP configured address control.

One of the few remaining Mk1 owners... #00015

How do I know what IP address to give it?

The manual is only intended to document the player software - emplode is documented electronically. I recall at the time there was a suggestion to scrap ALL printed documentation, but I thought it was important to have a user guide for functions you may try out in the car.

Rob

PS. Merry still sighs about you in her sleep

Umm, I know a lot of beer was consumed, but did I miss something when we visited? I guess I was distracted by those ribs (the edible kind).

Rob

IIRC, under JEmplode, there is only Ethernet download capability (I suspect I will be corrected rather rapidly here if this is not the case).

You have correctly made the correct type of physical connection between the unit and your Mac, an ethernet cross cable. If all was configured at both ends of the pipe (which it isn't at the moment) then you would be in a position to download tracks. You would not be able to update the player software, which requires a serial port connection. You would also not be able to get a command line prompt to do any manual configuration work. This does tend to limit your possibilities somewhat.

With the USB/serial convertor, you should be able to:
- configure the serial port speed
- use a terminal program to connect to the empeg via the serial port.

Have you tried something as primative as Z-Term with the convertor to see if you can actually make a (non-JEmplode) connection to the empeg?

Have you tried using VirtualPC with the USB/Serial convertor to see if you can use Hyperterm in Windoze to connect to the empeg?

Is there any reason why you can't find a friend with a Windoze machine to get you past this configuration hump with the least effort? It may be worth your while to do so, thereby avoiding an agonising wait to get this going.

As much as I am an Apple fan (I have two Powerbooks and a 750 at home) I still rail at their arrogance in trying to Unilaterally render the RS-232 port obsolete. No matter how well intentioned this may be, the reality is that computers have to collaborate with other devices in the real world to be useful. Not good.

One of the few remaining Mk1 owners... #00015

The issue is not what address to give it, but how. You either have to allow the empeg to pick up it's own IP address (using DHCP on a small network configured to use this protocol) or tell the unit manually (which means you have to get to the command line of the empeg). Since at the moment it doesn't look as if you could do the latter, then the first is the best bet.

Do you know anyone with small network? If so, ask them if they have DHCP on the network (many do). Go over there and plug in your unit, and it should pick up an IP address from their network. This is a good starting point; you could then go home and set up your Mac to use the same address range, and plug them back to back. With the Mac now pretending to be on the network you have just used, you should then be able to start using JEmplode.

This would be a start. It's primitive, and you would later on want to go back and set it up to be something more useful, but you could at least download some music.

One of the few remaining Mk1 owners... #00015

OK, so in a couple of hours I go over to a friend's office with my PC serial cable and use their sole Windows machine to try and give my empeg an IP address. They have a network (of Macs) so presumably I can get an IP address from their network somehow. I didn't realise all this IP stuff was involved.

Wish me luck!

I didn't realise all this IP stuff was involved.

Normally, it's not needed. You're a really special case.


___________
Tony Fabris

Thanks to ALL your help, a chat with David at Empeg, a couple of hours in someone else's office getting to grips with a PC and a lot of downloading of software later, I now have empeg car friendly with Emplode (updated version) via a USB cable on my Mac using Virtual PC. Phew!

Once again - thanks so much to all of you. I could not have done this without you.

Sally : )

PS: I'll post some pics of my Roadster install once everything's together.

Ah, good!

If you could share your experiences of what you needed to do to get it to work with VirtualPC, that would be nice. Maybe we could make up a FAQ entry about it, combining tips from you and MComb.

___________
Tony Fabris

If you could share your experiences of what you needed to do to get it to work with VirtualPC, that would be nice.
Hmm... I'd love to. It appears to have stopped working though now! It was neccessary to update the software all round (player and Emplode software), and then VPC suddenly recognised the player. One restart later though and we're back to square one. Seems like VPC is very buggy. Lots of freezes, etc.

Maybe others can confirm this, but I have had problems connecting the empeg reliably with USB. Sometimes the player isn't detected by the Emplode software.

My work-around is to open up the empeg Clone Tool and detect the player. Close the Clone Tool and go back to Emplode. Wow, magically the player is detected. Well, maybe it's not magic, but it seems to work for me.

Ethernet is way better than USB - and faster!

Glad you got it going.

Hmmm.... this is weird. I followed your suggestion Mark, and the clone tool says 'Only one empeg car player was detected, connected by USB' (or words to that effect. So it can definitely detect the player. But the I go back into Emplode and it can't find the player...

I would be happy to try ethernet again, now that the player has been configured with an IP address... Does anybody know _exactly_ what TCP/IP settings are necessary, if any?

Ta

But then I go back into Emplode and it can't find the player...

Here's a trick for you that might help...

When you plug all the cables into the back of the empeg (RCA, USB, and power) make sure you plug the USB cable in before you plug in the power cable. For some reason, Emplode will not see my empeg (and I assume others) unless the USB connection is complete prior to bootup of the empeg.

I'm looking forward to seeing pictures of your car. Rob Schofield enlightened me to a considerable extent about V-8 MGs. That model was never imported into the U.S., and your post was the first I had ever heard of one. :-)

tanstaafl.

"There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch"

Talking about rebooting the empeg.... how's that done? I can find 'power off' on the menu, but that just seems to put it into sleep mode. I think maybe if I could restart the empeg fully it might help things.

Sally

Talking about rebooting the empeg.... how's that done?

"When all else fails, use brute force."
- Old engineer's adage.

Pulling the plug does wonders.

There was an old movie about a computer taking over a guy's apartment. In once scene, the guy pulls the plug on the computer, and it laughs and says, "You think I still need that?"

___________
Tony Fabris

Caution! This thread is being subverted for another cause!

While we're on the subject of getting Macs to talk to anything else, how do I get TCP/IP set up on my girlfriend's Performa (which seems to have MacTCP) to talk to my PC (Win98). I've tried running WinProxy and WinRoute, and while I can get them working with my machine, so the routing runs fine, I can't get a ping from the Mac.

One solution I've seen is to install Open Transport. That's possible, but how badly is it going to fsck the rest of Laura's internet setup?

Thanks in advance,

Paul

Save the whales. Feed the hungry. Free the mallocs.

Crewe -

Well, strange about Clone Tool finding your player, but Emplode still being stubborn about it.

Try assigning this IP address, it works on mine 10.0.1.185 another address I've used is 10.0.1.26 For some reason, getting the empeg to use DHCP with a Mac doesn't work. !@!@$!@#@!% But using a static IP address does work - ( I can't speak for your Mac ) I think that this whole BBS will let out a big cheer when you get things working.

PaulWay-

There's a Mac application called "DAVE" that works great. It's fairly inexpensive and allows file and print sharing between the Mac and PC.

Windows 2000 has Appletalk built in, but I haven't tried using it since DAVE seems to do the trick.

Mark

It's so weird. About 25% of my connecting attempts show empeg car in the options box, so I click ok... and then I get 'there is no empeg car connected'. It just disappears! I think I'm going to cry!

Yeah, USB under VPC just does not seem to like to work with the empeg reliably. Unless you want to buy a PC (yuck) you are going to have to get ethernet working. -Mike

Hmmm, what IP address does your mac say that it is using? Did you configure your airport base station at all using the supplied software or did you just plug it in and start using it? Try setting everything up as I mentioned (but write down the current settings first) using configure via DHCP. Make sure that the empeg is plugged into the base station with your cross over cable before you plug the power into the empeg. Once you have done that go to the empeg's about menu and let it scroll until it shows you what IP address it is using and then let us know what that IP is. If this works you will want to leave everything setup this way while you use Jemplode (or emplode under VPC). What is supposed to happen is that the base station will provide an IP address to your mac and to the empeg. This will be from the same IP address range so they will be able to talk to eachother. -Mike

Well, basically if you are trying to use the PC as a NAT (network address translation) server all that needs to happen is for the mac to be setup for the same ip address range as the internal (not internet accesable) ip range as the PC. Whatever software you have on the PC should assign two IP addresses, one for internet access and one for the internal network. Set the IP address on the mac to the same range as the internal address on the PC and set the PC's IP as the router or gateway under MacTCP, also make sure that the subnet masks match. I have not used MacTCP in ages (that software is a good five or six years old) but it should work. Life will be a little easier if you install open transport, but either should work. Yes, either way it is going to disable her current internet access. If you just want file sharing between the two then use Dave on the mac or Miramar's PC MacLAN on the PC. Neither of these require IP accesses to be configured. -Mike

I think I'm going to cry!

Now now, we can't have that. I am going to send you a private BBS mesage with my phone number. If you can't get the trick with the airport working call me and I will walk you through it. This solution will work, we just need to get it setup right. We need to get some music on that empeg of yours. I will just send Rob@empeg a bill for customer support time ;-)

-Mike

"When all else fails, use brute force."
- Old engineer's adage.

No, no, no, Tony, never resort to using force!. Simply use a larger hammer.



Dragi "Bonzi" Raos
Zagreb, Croatia
Q#5196, MkII#80000376, 18GB green

There was an old movie about a computer taking over a guy's apartment. In one scene, the guy pulls the plug on the computer, and it laughs and says, "You think I still need that?"

Yeah, Electric Dreams was one my all-time favs growing up. I'm pretty sure it helped make me into the geek I am today.


_~= Dearing =~_
"WAY too happy about having #99."