#229068 - 31/07/2004 16:51
Chroma & Forge
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pooh-bah
Registered: 12/02/2002
Posts: 2298
Loc: Berkeley, California
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GizmodoColor and Coax digital out? Matthew
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#229069 - 31/07/2004 18:20
Re: Chroma & Forge
[Re: matthew_k]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 15/08/2000
Posts: 4859
Loc: New Jersey, USA
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<OZ voice>
Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain...
</OZ voice>
_________________________
Paul Grzelak
200GB with 48MB RAM, Illuminated Buttons and Digital Outputs
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#229070 - 02/08/2004 05:58
Re: Chroma & Forge
[Re: matthew_k]
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addict
Registered: 23/12/2002
Posts: 652
Loc: Winston Salem, NC
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Aside from the fact that we're talking speculatively, why would someone want a hard drive based player when the flash based player holds the same amount of songs? Just curious.
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#229071 - 02/08/2004 07:42
Re: Chroma & Forge
[Re: Cybjorg]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31600
Loc: Seattle, WA
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Quote:
why would someone want a hard drive based player when the flash based player holds the same amount of songs? Just curious.
Assuming that you're talking same amount of storage (a flash based player can hold plenty of songs... if you encode them at a really low bit rate...  ), at the moment the price-per-megabyte for flash is more expensive than the price-per-megabyte for hard disk storage.
I agree that solid state storage media is better. If only it weren't so expensive, still. Maybe one day the balance will shift and we'll start seeing some kind of solid state storage that is cheaper than winchester technology.
And regarding the 10,000 song capacity for a flash player quoted in that article... well, keep in mind that you're looking at a rumor site posting second hand information based on what was allegedly a work-in-progress web page that was not anything close to official and wasn't meant to be seen by public eyes. It could have simply been a typo on the original web page, or they could be lying.
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#229072 - 02/08/2004 09:03
Re: Chroma & Forge
[Re: matthew_k]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 21/05/1999
Posts: 5335
Loc: Cambridge UK
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90% of that article is bollocks. Data taken from hidden placeholders can hardly be considered reliable!
We have, however, officially announced the Rio Forge (128/256/512MB flash players) and Rio Carbon (5GB micro HDD) today. Details on the web page, more details to follow, shipping later in the summer.
IMHO the Carbon is the sweetest player we have ever made - should be a very strong iPod Mini competitor.
Rob
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#229073 - 02/08/2004 09:14
Re: Chroma & Forge
[Re: rob]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 18/01/2000
Posts: 5683
Loc: London, UK
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Quote:
Rio Carbon (5GB micro HDD) today. Details on the web page
"With it’s built-in voice memo recorder"
Possessive its has no apostrophe.
_________________________
-- roger
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#229074 - 02/08/2004 10:19
Re: Chroma & Forge
[Re: rob]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 27/02/2004
Posts: 1919
Loc: London
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Quote:
IMHO the Carbon is the sweetest player we have ever made
I like it, shame it's still got an edge located scroll wheel though (just broken the one on my Karma)
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#229075 - 02/08/2004 10:20
Re: Chroma & Forge
[Re: Roger]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 27/02/2004
Posts: 1919
Loc: London
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Quote:
Possessive its has no apostrophe.
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#229076 - 02/08/2004 10:30
Re: Chroma & Forge
[Re: rob]
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addict
Registered: 23/12/2002
Posts: 652
Loc: Winston Salem, NC
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Looks like the Forge is just a beefed up Cali. In fact, aside from the new look, the 128MB and 256MB versions seem identical. So why the new name?
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#229077 - 02/08/2004 10:33
Re: Chroma & Forge
[Re: Roger]
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addict
Registered: 23/12/2002
Posts: 652
Loc: Winston Salem, NC
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Quote:
The ultra slim design goes anywhere, and its superb battery life of up to 20 hours continues long after mini-powered players have died.
Shouldn't it be "long after other mini-powered player have died."?
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#229078 - 02/08/2004 10:40
Re: Chroma & Forge
[Re: Cybjorg]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 13/07/2000
Posts: 4180
Loc: Cambridge, England
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Quote:
Looks like the Forge is just a beefed up Cali. In fact, aside from the new look, the 128MB and 256MB versions seem identical. So why the new name?
Well, from a technology point of view, even the Cali was just a beefed-up S-series. Flash player product cycles are driven by fashion, not technology.
Forge players are USB mass-storage (i.e. they appear as a drive letter in Windows, and as mountable USB drives in Linux/MacOS), but then so are some recent Calis.
Peter
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#229079 - 02/08/2004 10:43
Re: Chroma & Forge
[Re: tfabris]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 13/07/2000
Posts: 4180
Loc: Cambridge, England
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Quote:
regarding the 10,000 song capacity for a flash player quoted in that article
I guess the article got rewritten a bit -- currently it calls the Forge a flash-player (and says nothing about how many songs) and quotes 10,000 songs for the Chroma (and says nothing about its storage technology).
Peter
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#229080 - 02/08/2004 11:09
Re: Chroma & Forge
[Re: Cybjorg]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 21/05/1999
Posts: 5335
Loc: Cambridge UK
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Quote:
Looks like the Forge is just a beefed up Cali. In fact, aside from the new look, the 128MB and 256MB versions seem identical. So why the new name?
The new product pages are not very complete yet. New features include:
- USB 2.0
- Tuner record
- Soup views
- Audible
- Mass storage class (including database which is built on the device)
- D-Pad control (replaces the joystick)
- Backlit button legends
There are lots of minor software tweaks as well. Of course earlier players may well get quite a bit of the software stuff via updates.
Rob
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#229081 - 02/08/2004 13:20
Re: Chroma & Forge
[Re: rob]
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enthusiast
Registered: 18/02/2002
Posts: 335
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The carbon looks really cool, can you comment on the physical specs or is it basically a nitrus with 5 gb drive?
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#229082 - 02/08/2004 15:38
Re: Chroma & Forge
[Re: rob]
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Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 08/02/2002
Posts: 3411
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Yeah, the carbon looks sweet. It's a shame that you have to see it as a competitor to the iPod Mini though as the Nitrus hit the market first. I guess that 1.5GB wasn't enough to win the market over. 
_________________________
Mk2a 60GB Blue. Serial 030102962
sig.mp3: File Format not Valid.
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#229084 - 02/08/2004 16:17
Re: Chroma & Forge
[Re: genixia]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 21/05/1999
Posts: 5335
Loc: Cambridge UK
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Quote:
Yeah, the carbon looks sweet. It's a shame that you have to see it as a competitor to the iPod Mini though as the Nitrus hit the market first. I guess that 1.5GB wasn't enough to win the market over.
Nitrus is doing very well, but predated the mini and with just 1.5GB is selling for extremely low prices right now. Carbon is more of a direct competitor.
Rob
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#229085 - 02/08/2004 16:18
Re: Chroma & Forge
[Re: drakino]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 21/05/1999
Posts: 5335
Loc: Cambridge UK
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Quote:
Carbon looks thinner to me based on those pictures, using the USB plug as a size guide.
Indeed it is.
Rob
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#229086 - 02/08/2004 16:37
Re: Chroma & Forge
[Re: rob]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 09/09/2000
Posts: 2303
Loc: Richmond, VA
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Congrats you guys ... That player really does look sweet.
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#229087 - 02/08/2004 17:55
Re: Chroma & Forge
[Re: rob]
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stranger
Registered: 02/01/2002
Posts: 44
Loc: Houston ,TX
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Wow that looks awesome! I can't wait to get my grubby hands on it... good work guys!
Not sure if this was answered previously, but will the Carbon also be classified as an "USB mass-storage" device?
Keep up the great work!
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#229088 - 02/08/2004 21:09
Re: Chroma & Forge
[Re: dngovy]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 08/06/1999
Posts: 7868
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Quote:
but will the Carbon also be classified as an "USB mass-storage" device?
From what I remember seeing from one of the empeg guys at Riovolution, yes. The interesting side effect of this is iTunes will talk to it, on the Mac at least. This is from the old days where the early Rio portables were supported by iTunes by what I understand.
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#229089 - 02/08/2004 23:47
Re: Chroma & Forge
[Re: rob]
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Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 08/02/2002
Posts: 3411
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What version of USB does the Carbon have?
_________________________
Mk2a 60GB Blue. Serial 030102962
sig.mp3: File Format not Valid.
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#229090 - 02/08/2004 23:55
Re: Chroma & Forge
[Re: genixia]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 24/12/2001
Posts: 5528
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I'd say it is nearly certain that it's USB2 as the Nitrius and Karma both have USB2.
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#229091 - 03/08/2004 00:16
Re: Chroma & Forge
[Re: tman]
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Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 08/02/2002
Posts: 3411
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Ok, I didn't realise that the Nitrus has USB2. 
_________________________
Mk2a 60GB Blue. Serial 030102962
sig.mp3: File Format not Valid.
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#229092 - 03/08/2004 05:31
Re: Chroma & Forge
[Re: genixia]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 08/06/1999
Posts: 7868
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The Fuse is also USB2, so getting random songs onto one of them will go pretty quick.
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#229093 - 03/08/2004 08:12
Re: Chroma & Forge
[Re: drakino]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 13/07/2000
Posts: 4180
Loc: Cambridge, England
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Quote:
From what I remember seeing from one of the empeg guys at Riovolution, yes. The interesting side effect of this is iTunes will talk to it, on the Mac at least. This is from the old days where the early Rio portables were supported by iTunes by what I understand.
I think the Itunes support is independent of the mass-storage-class thing. There's a MacOS Itunes plug-in that you have to install. The mass-storage-class support means you can put music on with Finder. (I don't think Carbon works with Windows Itunes).
Peter
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#229094 - 03/08/2004 13:05
Re: Chroma & Forge
[Re: peter]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 09/09/2000
Posts: 2303
Loc: Richmond, VA
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Quote:
There's a MacOS Itunes plug-in that you have to install.
This is correct ... iTunes requires a device plugin for it to appear on the left side as an option, so MSC isn't enough.
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#229095 - 03/08/2004 16:18
Re: Chroma & Forge
[Re: mschrag]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 08/06/1999
Posts: 7868
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Quote:
There's a MacOS Itunes plug-in that you have to install
Ahh, ok. I thought it was just using the same old Rio protocal that has been in there for ages, kinda suprised Apple is still allowing new plugins.
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#229096 - 04/08/2004 11:58
Re: Chroma & Forge
[Re: drakino]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 16/04/2002
Posts: 2011
Loc: Yorkshire UK
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Metro UK Newspaper today, 3rd Aug;
iPOD GLITCHES OPEN DOOR TO MP3 RIVAL RIO
A new mini music player is threatening sales of Apple's mini ipod as it struggles to meet demand. The Rio Carbon could be available in days but the ipod has sold out nationwide since it went on sale last month. It may not be available for another six weeks. Both players cost £175, but the Rio has 20% more memory with capacity for about 1,250 tunes, and offers up to 12 hours more playback time. The ipod delay was caused when Apple ran out of a Toshiba component used in the player's hard drive. Rio use rival manufcturer Seagate".
_________________________
Politics and Ideology: Not my bag
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#229097 - 05/08/2004 05:46
Re: Chroma & Forge
[Re: boxer]
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new poster
Registered: 20/08/2003
Posts: 9
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Carbon looks quite nice. If that somehow hits $200 in the next few months I just might get one myself.
Anyway, learned about this from Riovolution and IGN Gear. Hoping for any clarification whatsoever, since I seem to remember people here knowing more about what's going on.
Four words: Chroma release next spring.
Wiley is saying he talked to Rio last week and though not 100% positive, is "pretty sure" about that. I personally think it would be a very bad move for Rio to introduce the Karma's successor over half a year after the 4G iPod.
Thoughts? Anyone care to shed some light?
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#229098 - 05/08/2004 07:15
Re: Chroma & Forge
[Re: pinsomniac]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 18/01/2000
Posts: 5683
Loc: London, UK
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Quote:
I personally think it would be a very bad move for Rio to introduce the Karma's successor over half a year after the 4G iPod.
I personally think it would be a very bad move for Rio to introduce the Karma's successor before it's finished . I'm pretty sure that they're not deliberately holding it back to give the iPod a sporting chance.
_________________________
-- roger
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#229099 - 05/08/2004 07:42
Re: Chroma & Forge
[Re: Roger]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 10/06/1999
Posts: 5916
Loc: Wivenhoe, Essex, UK
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...and I'm sure it will be worth the wait
_________________________
Remind me to change my signature to something more interesting someday
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#229100 - 06/08/2004 06:39
Re: Chroma & Forge
[Re: pinsomniac]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 21/05/1999
Posts: 5335
Loc: Cambridge UK
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I'm not sure why anyone considers the 4G iPod to be a "next generation" product. It is a very minor refresh on the scale of things - Karma still out guns it on features (OK, on *relevent* features).
Rio have some pretty cool plans and a pretty cool strategy which I'm sure they will reveal when the time is right.
Rob
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#229101 - 06/08/2004 15:33
Re: Chroma & Forge
[Re: rob]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 27/02/2004
Posts: 1919
Loc: London
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Quote:
Rio have some pretty cool plans and a pretty cool strategy which I'm sure they will reveal when the time is right.
Rob
Is (ex) Empeg part of the new RIO now or are you independent again?
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#229102 - 06/08/2004 15:43
Re: Chroma & Forge
[Re: rob]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 23/08/2000
Posts: 3826
Loc: SLC, UT, USA
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Quote:
I'm not sure why anyone considers the 4G iPod to be a "next generation" product
Apparently it was a complete internal redesign... and has some features built in that are yet to be announced/activated in software. Rumors range from color to integration with the Airport Express/Airtunes. Some people have done some weird stuff with the screen, enabling it to show either black or blue for the text.
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#229103 - 06/08/2004 18:05
Re: Chroma & Forge
[Re: rob]
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addict
Registered: 24/07/2003
Posts: 500
Loc: Colorado, N.A.
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Yeah, it's the new (Audible compatible, yeah!) 5GB Carbon that bursts the 4GB iPod mini's bubble (at least, we all hope). Speaking of which, I presume everybody's seen the CNet Labs "First Look" video?
_________________________
-- DLF
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#229104 - 07/08/2004 19:35
Re: Chroma & Forge
[Re: DLF]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 17/12/2000
Posts: 2665
Loc: Manteca, California
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I had a chance to see the Carbon prototype. Its a sweet unit. The pictures don't really do justice to its sleek shape.
Can't say I like the memo function. That definatly rules out taking it to work.
_________________________
Glenn
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#229105 - 10/08/2004 02:11
Re: Chroma & Forge
[Re: Roger]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 12/11/2001
Posts: 7738
Loc: Toronto, CANADA
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I think a misplaced apostrophe is a minor detail when it's just too easy to stumble on the "shipping later this summer" line. My company does it too, but I'm sick and tired of paper announcements. They're very unnecessary and just plain silly when the competition has already been out there with a similar product for the past year (iPod mini).
The best marketing strategy Rio could hope to adopt would go something like this: "Now available. Everywhere."
Having the "best product no one can buy" doesn't cut the mustard. Again, I feel the same pain where I work.
A portable in my future will require a minimum of 60GB and a path for clean and clear dockable car installation (that implies allowing for a readable display and convenient/integrated controls). As I've said before... I love the empeg and won't give it up... But if I could have it in a hand-held form factor.... Mmmmm.
Bruno
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#229106 - 10/08/2004 07:46
Re: Chroma & Forge
[Re: hybrid8]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 19/05/1999
Posts: 3457
Loc: Palo Alto, CA
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Problem is, sales channels are leaky. Either it gets pre-announced within a realistic time of street availability or people start finding it on eStores and don't get an accurate picture (the accuracy of descriptions on stores is often far from perfect).
ISTR the iPod mini was announced a couple of months before you could actually get it. The G4 was announced a few days before it was available, leaving retailers with hard to shift stocks of G3's - something which doesn't exactly endear Apple to many resellers.
Hugo
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#229107 - 11/08/2004 00:03
Re: Chroma & Forge
[Re: altman]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 12/11/2001
Posts: 7738
Loc: Toronto, CANADA
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The channel leaks also caused pre-order pages to go up all over the place (with dates) for our Mac RADEON 9200 PCI card. We just shipped the CD out to production last week. Some stores had it listed for pre-order with an availability date of mid July. It's definitely easier when introducing something that is not intended as a direct replacement for a previous product (such as our release of the Mac 9800 Pro - streeted a few days after announcement and shipped same day from our online store). I just get really bothered to see a press release and product pages and then have the product slip for months. If it is a definite, then by all means announce with a 30 day window. But I don't like to see Doom3 or Half-Life 2 scenarios where specific dates are promised while the company knows fully well they're impossible to meet. Now, how do I update my GF's 256MB Chiba to a firmware version that supports Mass Storage? More importantly, Soup views... Bruno
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#229108 - 11/08/2004 06:48
Re: Chroma & Forge
[Re: hybrid8]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 21/05/1999
Posts: 5335
Loc: Cambridge UK
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When Rio released the Forge and Carbon press release Forge was already in mass production and Carbon went ino MP a few days later. No charges to answer Your Honour.
Rob
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#229109 - 12/08/2004 22:21
Re: Chroma & Forge
[Re: matthew_k]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 12/02/2002
Posts: 2298
Loc: Berkeley, California
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From Gizmodo:
Leaked information on the website of an online retailer has revealed more information about Rio's upcoming hard disk-based player, the Rio Chroma. While most of the data we already knew, such as the onboard SD-card expansion slot (although it's listed as SDIO in the specs, which might mean possible peripherals, such as Wi-Fi cards could conceivably be added), there are at least three confirmed bits of information that are very interesting. The first is that the Chroma will indeed come in a 20GB version (I had been betting on a 40GB version). The second is the price: listed at $390, but "on sale" for $319. And the final bit of info is just a little more information on the screen, which is listed as "16-bit," which can be read as a 65k-color screen.
Original speculation had put the Rio Chroma release date as next Spring. Should we expect it sooner? Bear in mind this information is not from Rio itself and could be inaccurate.
Still, can we get a picture, Rio?
I'll post the Technical Details information after the jump in case it is pulled. (Thanks, Aaron!)
· 20 GB BUILT-IN MEMORY STORES UP TO 330 HRS OF MP3 OR 660 HRS OF WMA
· PLAYS MP3, WMA, FLAC, OGG VORBIS, AUDIBLE® & WAV FORMATS
· 16 BIT COLOR SCREEN
· VIEW ALBUM COVER ART & PHOTOS
· VOICE RECORD
· SDIO EXPANSION SLOT ALLOWS TRANSFER OF PHOTOS FROM A DIGITAL CAMERA
· DRAG & DROP OF MUSIC & DATA FILES
· 12-HR RECHARGEABLE BATTERY
· 5-BAND ADJUSTABLE EQUALIZER WITH PRESETS
· COMPATIBLE WITH WINDOWS® 98SE, 2000, ME, XP
· INCLUDES DOCKING CRADLE, REMOTE CONTROL, CARRYING CASE, EARBUDS, USB CABLE, INSTALLATION DISC, QUICK-START GUIDE & WARRANTY
Matthew
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#229111 - 13/08/2004 20:13
Re: Chroma & Forge
[Re: PeterDLai]
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enthusiast
Registered: 08/08/2000
Posts: 351
Loc: chicago
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The press release went out on August 2, and Rob mentioned the Carbon went to mass production a few days later. Do you really think they're already in the channel?
--Dan.
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#229112 - 16/08/2004 13:30
Re: Chroma & Forge
[Re: matthew_k]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 21/05/1999
Posts: 5335
Loc: Cambridge UK
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Quote:
Leaked information on the website of an online retailer has revealed more information about Rio's upcoming hard disk-based player, the Rio Chroma.
The leaked information is now very out of date and inaccurate.
Rob
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#229113 - 25/08/2004 04:08
Re: Chroma & Forge
[Re: rob]
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journeyman
Registered: 04/07/2003
Posts: 57
Loc: San Diego, CA, USA
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Now to play the waiting game..
Patience is a virtue.
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#229114 - 25/08/2004 08:04
Re: Chroma & Forge
[Re: PeterDLai]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 15/08/2000
Posts: 4859
Loc: New Jersey, USA
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True, patience is a virtue. But you could be listening to a Karma right now...
_________________________
Paul Grzelak
200GB with 48MB RAM, Illuminated Buttons and Digital Outputs
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#229115 - 20/03/2005 15:48
Re: Chroma & Forge
[Re: pgrzelak]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 27/06/1999
Posts: 7058
Loc: Pittsburgh, PA
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#229116 - 21/03/2005 00:23
Re: Chroma & Forge
[Re: tonyc]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 08/06/1999
Posts: 7868
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Well if that is what it looks like, it seems Rio has adopted a standard look across the line between the low and high end Carbon, and now possibly the Chroma. I'm just hoping Best Buy carries it, since my Karma still has a good 3.8 years of coverage. Right now if the Karma breaks down, they wlll likely replace it with an iPod.
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#229117 - 22/03/2005 13:57
Re: Chroma & Forge
[Re: drakino]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 13/09/1999
Posts: 2401
Loc: Croatia
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Standard look is nice and well, but does anyone know what kind of software is running on Chrome?
_________________________
Dragi "Bonzi" Raos
Q#5196
MkII #080000376, 18GB green
MkIIa #040103247, 60GB blue
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#229118 - 22/03/2005 14:14
Re: Chroma & Forge
[Re: bonzi]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
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It was developed by the empeg guys. I'm sure it has the same base as all of their other products.
_________________________
Bitt Faulk
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#229119 - 22/03/2005 15:00
Re: Chroma & Forge
[Re: tonyc]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 06/02/2002
Posts: 1904
Loc: Leeds, UK
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Only a 12 hour battery life Screen looks a little small, and only having an SD slot seems like a weakness, will there be a CF adaptor? Not that I will be buying another Rio partable, at least until they start offering even the most basic of add ons. Cheers Cris.
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#229120 - 22/03/2005 15:14
Re: Chroma & Forge
[Re: Cris]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 14/01/2002
Posts: 2489
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I wouldn't read too much into battery life just now. At least wait until its been formely announced. I think CF would have made it to big - looks like they want to keep the form factor etc as small as possible.
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#229121 - 22/03/2005 15:17
Re: Chroma & Forge
[Re: Cris]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 15/08/2000
Posts: 4859
Loc: New Jersey, USA
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Greetings!
Much speculation about an electronic image from an unknown source of a device that has never been announced, published by a web site that is known for its hype of previous "products" that never existed.
Disclaimer: I am a Rio beta tester under NDA, so I cannot say anything useful or informative.
_________________________
Paul Grzelak
200GB with 48MB RAM, Illuminated Buttons and Digital Outputs
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