As far as the loaves and fishes miracle goes, It is my understanding that there was a problem with a croud that had followed Jesus into the wilderness. Out of this crowd, only a young boy had had the forethought to bring lunch. By the time the disciples had finished passing around the food, there was enough levt over to fill twelve baskets, as is to show that it was, indeed, a miracle. How this could come from people just sharing with each other is beyond me. It wasn't a pot-luck dinner, these people were walking in the wilderness.

As far as the loaves and fishes miracle goes, It is my understanding that there was a problem with a croud that had followed Jesus into the wilderness. Out of this crowd, only a young boy had had the forethought to bring lunch. By the time the disciples had finished passing around the food, there was enough levt over to fill twelve baskets, as is to show that it was, indeed, a miracle. How this could come from people just sharing with each other is beyond me. It wasn't a pot-luck dinner, these people were walking in the wilderness.

Thank heavens someone had the forethought to bring twelve baskets!

Peter

Here is the relevant passage, sorry it's in KJV, but it's still pretty clear and it's all I have handy in electronic form.

And the people saw them departing, and many knew him, and ran afoot thither out of all cities, and outwent them, and came together unto him.
34 And Jesus, when he came out, saw much people, and was moved with compassion toward them, because they were as sheep not having a shepherd: and he began to teach them many things.
35 And when the day was now far spent, his disciples came unto him, and said, This is a desert place, and now the time is far passed:
36 Send them away, that they may go into the country round about, and into the villages, and buy themselves bread: for they have nothing to eat.
37 He answered and said unto them, Give ye them to eat. And they say unto him, Shall we go and buy two hundred pennyworth of bread, and give them to eat?
38 He saith unto them, How many loaves have ye? go and see. And when they knew, they say, Five, and two fishes.
39 And he commanded them to make all sit down by companies upon the green grass.
40 And they sat down in ranks, by hundreds, and by fifties.
41 And when he had taken the five loaves and the two fishes, he looked up to heaven, and blessed, and brake the loaves, and gave them to his disciples to set before them; and the two fishes divided he among them all.
42 And they did all eat, and were filled.
43 And they took up twelve baskets full of the fragments, and of the fishes.
44 And they that did eat of the loaves were about five thousand men.

As objects move closer to the speed of light, time slows down. If time can be manipulated in this way, then time is no longer a direct ray into infinity. It becomes a palpable thing which can be manipulated. (albeit not by us, as we can't even come close to the speed of light.) Now, if God is omnipresent, then what does that do to his speed? Or does he even have one? If God is no longer bound by speed,or distance, then what of any boundaries of time?

Ooh, that's interesting. Maybe God dictated that man not be able to go past the speed of light because that's the speed at which He operates and going faster than that would lead man to be able to see him, which is something that man is not supposed to do. I never even began to think of the Bible as being part scientific allegory (other than the obvious creation of the world stuff).

you could never have gotten to now since you could always go back further and further

Huh? I'm on a line right now, and it, by definition, goes an infinite amount in each direction. I've never been to either end, yet I'm on the line. I don't think that one makes any sense at all.

i dont think that youre on a line that goes in both directions
just one direction. (a ray, if my memory serves me correctly)
forward, if you will
i do believe that you will never reach the end, unless youre on your own personal line, terminating at death.

Physically, I stand on a line. Any of an infinite number, pointing in every direction that all share the single point that I'm standing on. I'm not talking about time. I was easily dropped onto that line and I will be just as easily extricated.

My point is that if you want to make a point, you shouldn't use an analogy or metaphor where your point doesn't hold.

oh, ok. thanks for the clarification

...sorry it's in KJV, but it's still pretty clear and it's all I have handy in electronic form

Try Bible Gateway, where you can look up passages online in 17 different translations.

LOL

Careful, Peter. You're bordering on flippancy.

Ooh, that's interesting. Maybe God dictated that man not be able to go past the speed of light because that's the speed at which He operates and going faster than that would lead man to be able to see him, which is something that man is not supposed to do. I never even began to think of the Bible as being part scientific allegory (other than the obvious creation of the world stuff).

This may be one of the more interesting theories I've heard. There's a problem with it though. If the Chrsitian god is the creator of all things, then "he" also created time and speed and such. Hence, "he" would exist outside of those constraints. It is not a matter of moving "as fast" as "him". "He" would operate beyond speed.

It's like saying "I was just driving at the speed of <as round as an orange>".

Well, his 3-d avatar, then, the concept of the face of a 5-d being being a little hard to swallow.

which was FITNR when Allah dictated the Koran Himself

Laughed out loud at that one...

Ok, to clarify a few things. I am not saying that God is a 5-dimentional being. I am just saying that there are possibilities that we as humans simply cannot comprehend. I personally believe that God exists above all the natural laws of science.

As to the time being a ray thing, time to us is different than length or width. Time flows in a constant direction. And it never stops. Linear motion is very easy for us to move about in. Time we have no control over. It keeps marching forward. Then again, space has to have an end, doesn't it? Or does it? Hawkings believes that space , or more literally, the universe, has a definite limit. I'm not so sure. It seems to me that "space", even if there is no matter or energy in it, continues to infinity. I mean, it has to. I can't imagine it not having an end. But then again, I can't imagine it having an end, either. So I guess I'm totally screwed.

Bear in mind, when I'm talking about all this, I'm talking completely out of my ass. I have no proof of any kind to offer for anything. I just think it's interesting to ponder.

Thank heavens someone had the forethought to bring twelve baskets!

Well, with a crowd of 5000, there were sure to be a few basket-cases in the mix...

And they that had eaten were about five thousand men, beside women and children.

keep in mind that it was 5,000 men, PLUS women and children (their families). its surprising how many people miss this. and yeah, you're right. with a crowd like that, baskets should be a plentiful.

Time flows in a constant direction.

I'm not a physicist, but I'd say that we flow through time in an apparently constant direction.