I think the main reason they were complaining, and the reason my roommate was complaining, was because they showed their initial design of a more realistic Link, then went this totally different direction. They felt like they were being teased or something. Honestly, I think it's better this way. I love this game. It's the very type of game that I love. It's not hard, it's entertaining. I think too many games today try to be insanely hard in order to drag the gameplay out longer. Here we have a pretty easy game, but it's absoultely HUGE!

Actually, the more I play this game the more I feel that this is the way it should be I mean, this game looks and feels directly related to Link to the Past for SNES, and I think that's one of the best games of all time. I regularly go back and play that one.

As for the puzzles, I agree. The Zelda designers have always made the best puzzles, and these are just fun. Most of all, when I find I'm stuck on one, the biggest step to take is remembering what items I have. There has been several times where I've forgotten about a way-cool item (that you'll get on the next island, Tony), and I think "duh!"

Damn this is a great game. I couldn't put it down last night and I played it until 4:30AM What's even worse is the clocks have changed, so I'm even more tired than usual. It's worth it, though

I couldn't put it down last night and I played it until 4:30AM

Luckily I was able to finish the Dragon Roost Island sequence earlier than that. But I will say that it took an incredible amount of willpower to save the game and turn it off before leaving the island. I was so tempted to "just go see what the next island looks like"...

The "island" theme reminds me of the LucasArts Monkey Island games. That's probably part of why I like this game so much...

Regarding the "kiddie" thing: I have to say that so far, two of the islands (the first one and the third one) seemed far too kiddie for my tastes and I was teetering close to just letting my daughter finish the game. I'm glad I hung around long enough to get to the Dragon Roost sequence, it made it all worth it.

If I think about it, the Monkey Island games were kind of kiddie-looking all the way through. What made them so fun for me as an adult, I think, was the flavor of the humor. It was the kind of humor that catered to both adults and kids equally. There were enough "in" jokes and subtle twists that only the grownups would get.

I think that's something that's more or less missing from Windwaker: that subtle adult-sensibility humor. I'm sure that's largely due to the translation from Japanese. I'll bet there's all sorts of pop-culture references and tongue-in-cheek stuff that I'm just not getting because I'm not Japanese. So the eye candy and the quality of the puzzles is what really has to hold me for this game, and fortunately, it succeeds in spades.

I'm curious, Tony, which of the previous Zelda games have you played? So far, I've completed all the major ones since Link to the Past. I didn't have an NES as a kid, so I didn't get to those titles, but all the others have been possibly the greatest games I've ever played. Wind Waker doesn't quite reach that level for me, but it's still a damn good game.

None, I never owned a system that played the Zelda games until now.

You have to play the first one it's the best one.

I didn't have an NES as a kid, so I didn't get to those titles,

Good God, man, get an emulator and play the first two Zelda games! I'll send you the ROMs if you need em!

You have to play the first one it's the best one.

I still like Link to the Past the best, followed by the first N64 one. Haven't played enough of Wind Waker yet to decide where it goes on my list.

The problem is, I don't think I would like it. I know if I had played it when it first came out, I would treasure it like any child of the 80's But having never played it, the graphics and gameplay wouldn't entertain me enough to make it hold up with its later versions.

I tried the same thing with my roommate and Final Fantasy. I said that he just HAD to try FFIV, because it was my favorite game ever. Having started on FFVII, I just know he stopped playing FFIV because the graphics were so dated.

Therefore, I respectfully decline. Link to the Past remains my favorite Zelda game, and the N64 versions following it, just like Drakino.

When I find the issue, I'll post where EGM ranks these games on their latest 100 best games of all time list.

Zelda games on Electronic Gaming Monthly's top "100 Best Games Ever" list:

95- Zelda 2: The Adventure of Link (NES)
55- The Legend of Zelda: Link's Awakening (GC Color)
40/39- The Legend of Zelda: Oracle of Seasons/Ages (GC Color)
25- The Legend of Zelda (NES)
8- The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time (N64)
3- The Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past (SNES)

(in case you're interested, 2 and 1 were Tetris and Super Metroid, respectively)

Aside from Mario, Zelda had the most games on their top 100 list, just ahead of Final Fantasy.

*edit* Even more interesting was their "20 Worst Games Ever" list, which was topped by ET: the Extra Terrestrial for the Atari 2600. Is there anyone here who owned that at one point?

Is there anyone here who owned that at one point?

I still do actually. I need a TV and power adaptor for my 2600 to be able to play it though.

I had it, too. It really did suck.

That one is great too I just replayed it on gameboy advance. I need to quit buying all these remakes but I can't stop.

Did you play ages and seasons for game boy they are similar to link to the past.

I have it too and while it does suck I don't why they always pick on that game as the worst of all time. There are many rotten 2600 games picking the worst would be hard.

I like the fact that is had a goal instead of just mindless shooting trying to get a higher score.

That one is great too I just replayed it on gameboy advance. I need to quit buying all these remakes but I can't stop.

I justified my GameBoy Advance (and SP) buys based on the fact that I really enjoyed many SNES and Genesis games, and I knew some were being remade. I still need to play the Four Swords part of the game, seemed like an interesting idea when I played the demo at E3.

Did you play ages and seasons for game boy they are similar to link to the past.

I own both, and still need to finish them. The SP should help me do this one day, but for now Metroid Fusion has my gametime.

holy crap... i missed this whole thread!

I got pissed last night because my GC crashed soon after i got to the dragon island and i hadn't saved in a while... that's the second time that's happened to me. GRRR. it happened to me on Metroid too now that i think about it... what's up with that.?!

Wow, that shouldn't happen! How hard are you on that little box?

Electronic Gaming Monthly's top "100 Best Games Ever" list:

I'm probably just an old, atavistic curmudgeon... but I've always thought "DOOM" and "DOOM II" to be the best games ever. At least in terms of breaking new ground and (at the time) setting the level to which all competing products had to aspire.

So just from curiosity, where did DOOM rank in that top 100 list?

tanstaafl.

This was purely console gaming, and I guess that aside from Tetris, they didn't consider any ports of computer games (and you could argue that the most popular version of Tetris was the Gameboy version). They also didn't consider any game within the past year or so of the creation of the list. Looking at the date, it is older than I thought it was. It was printed in Jan 2002, so they considered all games up until the start of 2001. Basically every system before the GC/PS2/XBox era.

*edit*
Electronic Gaming Monthly is primarily a console gaming magazine, with very little on PC gaming. I consider it to be the best in its field. I hardly buy or play games anymore, but I still subscribe to keep up with the industry.

Metroid fusion was great I hope they make more. And is that SP the best thing ever or what. I bought it mostly because they were sold out everywhere and I found a store that had some but I couldn't go back to the other one now.

I finished ages or seasons can't remember which then played alot of the other and got wrapped up in exchanging the passwords between the two games.

I have never had my cube lock up maybe you have a bad cube.

My dreamcast would do that sometimes if the disk got something on it and I didn't notice. My xbox does that alot when loading I think it's dying. (maybe it's time to make it a mp3 player that xbox media player looks pretty good)

Don't worry, that's one of the few puzzles that is that obscure.

I think I may have hit one of the other obscure puzzles. I'd go find a walkthrough, but I don't want spoilers, so does anyone have a hint for this one?

I'm in the "courage tower", the fortress that rose out of the sea after I placed the three pearls on the three triangle islands. Most of the puzzles here have been pretty easy so far.

I've gotten the first statue to follow me back to the central room (you press R and shout "come on!" and the statue follows you). I've conducted the "Command" music and opened the second door.

The second statue is the hard one. I've used the grappling hook to reach it. I had to cross two bottomless chasms in two rooms with the grappling hook to get there. But now I don't see a way to get back across with the statue. There is a trigger pad that will allow me to place a heavy object onto it and make a magic bridge appear, but I can't see how to get either of the heavy objects across the first chasm.

There is a trigger pad that will open a door near the first chasm, but... same problem. No way to get heavy objects across that first chasm to reach the trigger pad.

There is a big eye on the wall next to the first chasm, but I can't seem to interact with it with any of my items. There's a little blue notch in the wall beneath the eye indicating that maybe a bridge or ledge will appear there, but I can't make anything happen in that room.

Earlier, I had battled two flaming flying skulls in that room (homage to Doom, anyone?), but nothing seemed to happen after they were both gone.

Help?

Argh. I couldn't wait any longer so I found a walkthrough:

Grapple across, walk up to the statue and hit R. Pick it up and put it down to get it to stop following you. Walk to the switch and stand on it to make a path appear. While doing that, play the Command Melody. You are now the statue.

I call "LAAAAAAME" right now. No hint was given that I had to do the command melody to this statue. Only prior hint was that I used it to open a door. What does remote-controlling a statue have to do with opening a door?

LAAAAAAAME.

/me deletes the walkthrough until I get stuck again...

Hehe, yeah, those were tough to figure. Another hint that I'd give you is to look for those walls you can blast open. I think there's one in one of those statues paths, by the platforms that go up and down when you jump on them.

My other hint would be sometimes there's this little blue thing that you can stand on and play something