Just picked up a pretty sweet one of these. $2325 out the door at Guitar Center in Sacramento.

Very sweet intstrument. A little disappoined in the salesman because he gave me new strings for it that were two gauges too light, so its tone is a bit tinny right now. Next week I'll have to get some proper gauge strings and re-truss-adjust, but for now, I'm really happy with it.

Any other Taylor owners on the BBS?

"$2325 out the door"

Tony, I *hope* you didn't fall for the undercoating and paint protection!

Tony, I *hope* you didn't fall for the undercoating and paint protection!

That was priceless.

Tony, I *hope* you didn't fall for the undercoating and paint protection!

Um, the strings they gave me were Elixir Polywebs... They're corrosion-protected. So, in a way, I suppose I did.

Yeah, heather, you *would* laugh at that, wouldn't you?

Not a Taylor owner yet, but that was the very guitar I have been lusting over at my local Guitar Center.

They're corrosion-protected

"Hey, you! Stop dripping sweat on my guitar!"

I just loved the "out the door" turn of phrase and had visions of serious accessorizing.

I never played guitar well enough to deserve a decent guitar (and that Taylor looks wonderful, but I'm not worthy to judge it, IMO). I *did* have a Washburn acoustic that I got for $100 at a going-out-of-business sale once and which sounded great and played very easily, fret-wise, but being a dumbass I sold it when I moved on the boat way back when. Hmmm, could it be time to get one of those Martin travel guitars or a small solid-body with a headphone amp?

I just loved the "out the door" turn of phrase and had visions of serious accessorizing.

You'd be surprised how similar the process was to car buying, including the salespeople. (No offense, Heather. )

You'd be surprised how similar the process was to car buying, including the salespeople. (No offense, Heather. )

I'm not offended. According to my customers, I'm better than 1000's of VW salespeople (12 nationally two years running, should crack the top 10 if I actually spend an enite callendar year in a VW dealership). But then again, most customers behavior is pretty offensive.

But then again, most customers behavior is pretty offensive.

Is it really? In all seriousness, that kind of turns all the stereotypes on their heads. What do they do?

(I don't want this to be a loaded question, so I'll admit that I have a basic approach to buying a car: Call dealership, ask if they have car X, and will they sell it to me for price Y? Not much more complicated than that.)

But then again, most customers behavior is pretty offensive.

I've worked in retail (not car sales, but still...), so I can understand and agree with this.

wait, you just bought a $2000 guitar?

Yeah, it's been known to happen in moments of weakness.

Is it really? In all seriousness, that kind of turns all the stereotypes on their heads. What do they do?

In my observations, from 3 points (manager, salesperson, and customer) on a sales floor:

The first lie almost always comes out of the customer’s mouth. Without fail. People who start conversations with me by actually being honest to begin with (and most other salespeople) and continuing with that pattern, will be responded to honestly in most cases (the good the bad and the ugly) and be well taken care of and leave happy. Lie to me, and I'll call you on it by the third one. People don't like being caught in a lie.

A car showroom is not a [censored] daycare center; it's a place of business. Don't bring your children in there to amuse them (mostly men seem to do this) and let them climb and jump all over the cars. I've actually had to file suit against some [censored] who's 5 year old destroyed a NB convertible to the point where I could not in good conscious, repair it and sell it. You may think children are wonderful, but there are those of us who do not like them, and we don't want to watch them/entertain them for you. People with children in tow are usually the worst offenders for obnoxious behavior.

We are not obligated to sell you a damn thing.

Invoice minus holdback is not a reasonable offer. Unless it's the car known to the sales staff as the (fill in color here) piece of [censored].

I don't give a [censored] what pricing guide you read, if there's a waiting list for a car, you are not getting a discount. Edmunds does not sell cars, I do. Recognize.

Don't yell at me because your credit sucks.

$199 a months over 60 months will never equal $30,000, no matter how hard you try. Don't expect me to sell you a car for $20,000 under cost because you can't afford your tastes.

Do not talk to me like you know more about the whole car buying bit than I do. Most people do this once every three years; I do it almost every damn day.

Do not talk to me like I am a moron.

Do not tell me how much of a profit I am entitled to. I don't tell you how much money you should make.

The fax letter that begins with "I'm taking bids for my business" outlining our costs, available as a downloadable file from a few car buying services (the one with the line that says "I do not want a salesman receiving a commission for this sale, please consider this a house deal") is so incredibly rude I can't even begin to put it into words. Of course these people expect to receive their car with all the things usually done by a salesperson like having all the paperwork filled out, plates and registration on it, sent to be detailed etc. Without compensation. Cute.

MY LACK OF A PENIS DOES NOT IMPAIR MY ABILITY TO DRIVE A CAR WITH A MANUAL TRANSMISSION.
An actual conversation with a customer who bought my GTI demo, and asked who was driving it, so Mel brought him over to me.
"You were driving that car? Are you some kind of a lesbian?"
There is only one answer to this question, truth or not. "Yes"
"You don't look like a lesbian"
"Ever hear the phrase lipstick lesbian?"
"Yeah, but I never knew what it meant"
"You learn something new every day"

BEING A FEMALE DOES NOT MEAN I KNOW NOTHING ABOUT CARS. Other women are the worst offenders for this one.

I am not going to commit a crime for you so you can save a few bucks on taxes.


I could go on, but I'm tired.

(I don't want this to be a loaded question, so I'll admit that I have a basic approach to buying a car: Call dealership, ask if they have car X, and will they sell it to me for price Y? Not much more complicated than that.)

Which is precisely the sort of thing most of us love to deal with. Simple with a low bullshit factor. However, the behavior of other customers works against you in this situation.

LOL...

Great post, Heather.

Great post, Heather.

Oh, I forgot one of my biggest pet peeves.

Do not call me up, or show up (with new VW not purchased from me) to ask me out after telling me "I bought it from (fill in competitors name here) because his lease payment was $1.28 (or some other small sum) lower than yours".
If you do this, you deserve whatever Wesley Willis inspired string of obscenities comes out of my mouth.

Yes, I am aware of my anger management problem.

A car showroom is not a [censored] daycare center; it's a place of business. Don't bring your children in there to amuse them (mostly men seem to do this) and let them climb and jump all over the cars. I've actually had to file suit against some [censored] who's 5 year old destroyed a NB convertible to the point where I could not in good conscious, repair it and sell it. You may think children are wonderful, but there are those of us who do not like them, and we don't want to watch them/entertain them for you. People with children in tow are usually the worst offenders for obnoxious behavior.

I can't believe that you would deprive the poor kiddies of a wonderful adventure playground like that. That is so cruel

But I do have to ask...how the fuck does a 5 year old wreck a car that badly?

But I do have to ask...how the [censored] does a 5 year old wreck a car that badly?

Well, the car was repairable. I just wouldn't sell it repaired. Then the little shit was done, it needed a new roof, a new rear seat, a new rear quarter panel(the kid had climbed up and jumped all over the back of it), a new passenger side window (the noise that brought me out of the GM's office) and the center of the dash where the heater controls had been kicked in. Dad seemed to think this was acceptable behavior, so obviously he's an [censored]. Even worse, the morons I call my sales staff DIDN'T SAY A FUCKING WORD to this asswipe or his kid.

So, I could have fixed the car and sold it, but that would make me a scumbag.

wait, you just bought a $2000 guitar?

I've heard that a lot, only about bikes, instead of guitars. It might be easier to explain using bikes, since riding a bike is a more common experience. So... go down to your local bike shop, and test ride a nice $2000 bike -- if you can, ride it for a half hour, or so. Now, go down to your local big box store -- WalMart, or whatever, and test ride a $200 bike. Which one would you be more likely to ride frequently, and which is more enjoyable to ride? To those who are good at playing a guitar, that's the sort of difference that they see between guitars.

Have fun with your new toy, Tony...

To those who are good at playing a guitar, that's the sort of difference that they see between guitars.

Yup. That's what it's all about. There's a point where it becomes increasingly irritating to play your old cheap plywood guitar after having played a sweet instrument like a Taylor.

I blame it on some friends of mine who have a matched pair of Taylors that I get to play regularly...

I blame it on some friends of mine who have a matched pair of Taylors that I get to play regularly...

Uh-Oh, the cat is out of the bag now!

You were feeling left out of the club, no longer welcome at the jam sessions, sneered at by those who had previously been close friends with whom you shared your hopes and dreams,
"Quick, duck, here comes that Tony guy...you know, the one who doesn't own a Taylor.....shit he's seen us.",
and the pain just got too much. You had to get back into the club, back to where you felt safe, where no-one could take the piss, whatever the cost.

It's Grade-School sneaker jealousy all over again...

Not exactly. It's more like... Each time I played one of their Taylors, I had to keep wiping the drool off of my chin.

BTW, I've been meaning to ask;

What exactly is a gutarist?

...drool...

That's why the strings are corrosion resistant

What exactly is a gutarist?

Argh. Didn't even NOTICE that until now.

Each time I played one of their Taylors, I had to keep wiping the drool off of my chin

Thus the requirement for corrosion-protected strings.

Amazing! That kid has issues, and so must the dad. I'm sorry, but you have to be one pissed off little kid to be that destructive. It sounds like the kid was destroying to the point of self-injury!

If you do this, you deserve whatever Wesley Willis inspired string of obscenities comes out of my mouth.

Hehe, I can see why you're so well thought of among your customers. No, seriously, no sarcasm implied! I would love to deal with you if I liked VW's!

My dad sold cars in college to work through law school. He was quite good at it too. Supposedly, he sold the first Celica in Virginia. That should tell you the time frame

The first lie almost always comes out of the customer’s mouth.

My father is a new and used truck salesman at a Ford dealership. He says that every vehicle that gets traded in, no matter how many miles on it, according to the customer it's always highway miles.

Call dealership, ask if they have car X, and will they sell it to me for price Y?

Right.

I've always been baffled when I hear that purchasing a new car is one of the most stressful things a person will ever do.

People make too big a deal over it. What's the worst that will happen? You might pay more money for the car than your neighbor paid for his. BFD. Buy a new car, pay $1000 more for it than the best you could possibly have done by spending days shoppoing around in other cities, insulting salespeople and making an ass of yourself... well, after three years that comes to less than a dollar a day. Get a life.

Plus, in my experience, if you treat the dealer right, allow him to make a reasonable profit on the transaction, chances are you're going to be treated well in return. Trust me, the guy who managed to screw the dealer out of every last nickel on the sale of the car is not the guy who's going to go to the head of the line when he needs an emergency repair.

tanstaafl.

One reason I buy Saturns.

I don't have to worry about paying over MSRP because all dealerships are bound to sell from it. I don't have to haggle. Presure free sales. And I get a GMS Discount

But I'm also a wonderful person to deal with as a customer. I'm not an ass. Hell, I have to deal with customers everyday in my field, and I have learned that what gets you furthest along in this world is being honest and nice. It will get you more than yelling and using obsinities anydays.

In fact, I'm also quite the sales person. (I've been told on a couple occasions that I could sell [censored] on a stick). I've been thinking about going into sales Part time, and eventually maybe full time. Prolly not car sales though

Any other Taylor owners on the BBS?

Sorry Tony: Martin HD-28, and I wouldn't switch for anything.

It seems everyone I know is going with Taylors, but I just like the way my guitar plays and sounds. One of the greatest feelings is getting to play everyday on the nicest acoustic guitar I've ever laid my hands on.

And for you people out there who can't believe the price, if you bought an Empeg at the retail price you should understand: some toys are worth it. I've found that the price break of $2,000 is the difference between an acoustic guitar that will get the job done and one you will cherish all of your remaining days.

And for the interested, here's a link to my guitar:
http://www.martinguitar.com/guitars/choosing/guitars.php?p=m&m=HD-28&PHPSESSID=34852a65b64f460ef8450497215734cb

I should note that the $2959.00 figure listed is (as with all musical instruments) a bit high. IIRC I walked out the door at closer to $2,100. I also knew the salesman well, but I'm under no illusion that I got a great deal. Never let anyone sell you a guitar at anything close to list price; actually, I've found they hardly even try anymore.

Soon after the purchase I added a fishman pickup at a cost of about $200 (with an external transducer), so I suppose that brings to total cost up to about $2,300 for my current setup.

Also Tony, I'll mention that I don't use anything other the Elixir strings on my guitar, though for tone reasons I don't go any lower than medium-light.

Any other Taylor owners on the BBS?

Well...I bought a Baby Taylor for the 5year old...does that count?

I suppose I can't be too astonished. I own 4 saxophones (about 6 over my playing career), and those get quite expensive as well. My alto cost about as much as your guitars, and my tenor was quite a bit more (for those who know, it's a silver plated Mark VI).

Instruments are worth it.

Also Tony, I'll mention that I don't use anything other the Elixir strings on my guitar, though for tone reasons I don't go any lower than medium-light.

Yeah, agreed about the tone. This guitar is supposed to have 12's, and the salesman handed me a pack of 10's and said he was "sure they were the right gauge".

What's the difference between a guitar salesman and a car salesman? The car salesman knows when he's lying.

Well...I bought a Baby Taylor for the 5year old...does that count?

Yes.

I just added one of these to my collection that also includes an old Fender Strat and a Les Paul. Unfortunately, a pretty serious shoulder injury has kept me from playing during the past year or so. Hopefully the new axe will motivate me to do some more rehab so I can get back to playing soon.

Ooooo... Setzer is God... The tone from those hollow-body guitars is insane. <drool>

Cool...although I didn't give the coupla grande you forked over it did cost a few hundero...

My latest toy would be the Gibson faded "V"

He says that every vehicle that gets traded in, no matter how many miles on it, according to the customer it's always highway miles.

At least when I said this, it seemed plauasable to the sales people. I did manage to put almost 40k on the car in 2.5 years. And of course the service records could track every one of my roadtrips, since I was usually there a few days after getting back for oil changes and such.

I have always found sales people treat their customers much better when they act like they just want to buy the object and get out. Hell, my second sales guy at Saturn was offering me discounts, not the other way around .

(I've been told on a couple occasions that I could sell [censored] on a stick).

Say, I might be interested in buying some of that from you. Do you allow shipping to an address different from the billing address?

No Taylors I'm afraid, most of mine are solid bodied electrics (Charvel, Jackson, Ibanez, Gibson and some cheap ones for drunken jams) but I do have a couple of Eko's and a Fender CG-24 which all sound pretty nice.

I do like the Taylor sound, but as 80% of my playing is on electrics, I could only justify that sort of price once ... mmm, my sweet Ibanez

When I win the lottery.....

but as 80% of my playing is on electrics

Once upon a time, I would have agreed with you. But the stuff I'm playing and the places I'm playing it have changed. I've already got the expensive electric rig, and I hardly ever play it lately. Once upon a time, it gigged regularly. Now it collects dust. I've been seriously considering ebaying it all. Can't bring myself to do it yet...

Heh, I think I'm going the opposite direction. I don't even own an electric right now, though that will change soon. The stuff I play is mostly folk-acoustic style, but I plan to start branching out and adding electric guitars, at least in the studio.

I play an electric right now (cheap DeArmond, aka Guild import) through a Behringer amp, and it's nice... (I a blues/folk/rock kinda guy) But I'd like to get away from it and buy an acoustic. I seem to spend a lot of time sitting around in other rooms without it plugged in, and something I could play at my friend's easily would be nice too.

Need mo money. I'll probably start playing a lot more when I ditch my roommates and move out on my own again. Great boredom cure. That means I'll just break down and buy one.