#147527 - 08/03/2003 01:52
Flakey volume control
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member
Registered: 17/05/2002
Posts: 148
Loc: Cape Town, South Africa
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Hi,
Over time my volume control has become more and more of a pain. Sometimes the volume goes down when I'm trying to turn it up, sometimes it doesn't move in speed with my adjustment, and lately it adjusts itself while driving (from vibration I guess).
Does anyone have more information on the component that adjusts volume, specifically what the component is called? I know it's not a potentiometer. 
Does anyone know if it'd be possible to replace the rotary control with a pair of up/down buttons to adjust volume? (disregarding the necessary changes to the fascia)
Thanks,
Aragon
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#147528 - 08/03/2003 05:34
Re: Flakey volume control
[Re: Aragon]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 10/06/1999
Posts: 5915
Loc: Wivenhoe, Essex, UK
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I believe it is called a rotary encoder. I suffer from the first of the problems you listed, sometimes when I turn the knob only a couple of notches the setting goes the wrong way.
I sometimes see the second issue, with the volume/menu taking a while to catch up with my movements. I put that down to the player being busy accessing the disk to cache the next chunk of the current track.
_________________________
Remind me to change my signature to something more interesting someday
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#147529 - 08/03/2003 10:00
Re: Flakey volume control
[Re: andy]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 13/01/2002
Posts: 1649
Loc: Louisiana, USA
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Yes, the component is a rotary encoder, made by Alps. I believe it is of the incremental varity. You probably could implement a push button interface, but it would almost certainly require a code rewrite in the player software. Most incremental rotary encoders send out pulses on 2 different channels per rotation with one being 90 degrees out of phase with the other, resulting in a quadrature signal. They output their pulses at a set pattern, which allows the MCU or whatever is interpreting the pulses to determine direction of rotation. It is definitely different from what a push button generates.
If anyone cares to clarify/ poke fun of my explanation please feel free  .
Stu
_________________________
If you want it to break, buy Sony!
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#147530 - 08/03/2003 11:59
Re: Flakey volume control
[Re: andy]
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member
Registered: 25/10/1999
Posts: 149
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I suffer from the first of the problems you listed, sometimes when I turn the knob only a couple of notches the setting goes the wrong way
Same here.
I sometimes see the second issue, with the volume/menu taking a while to catch up with my movements.
I see that also sometimes, and I've got a Mk2a so slipping shouldn't be the cause. Actually I have never seen one of the two issues on my Mk2, but I havn't used my Mk2 much since I have the Mk2a.
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Thomas
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#147531 - 08/03/2003 15:42
Re: Flakey volume control
[Re: Aragon]
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journeyman
Registered: 04/09/1999
Posts: 74
Loc: CA
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While we're on the subject, bring back the volume increments of 2.0b11!!! I severely dislike having to turn the knob 3 revolutions to gain considerable volume.
_________________________
Mk2 #105 60g
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#147532 - 08/03/2003 20:41
Re: Flakey volume control
[Re: MRHJr]
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enthusiast
Registered: 14/06/2002
Posts: 337
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"I severely dislike having to turn the knob 3 revolutions to gain considerable volume"
I agree with that. As for the vol. encoder, it's the same prob that pots. have when they get "scratchy" if you can get a drop of WD-40 in the encoder then move it around it will solve the problem. Hey you can believe it or not but thats what I have used for 12 years on vcr "mode switches" which is nothing but a flat encoder, the WD-40 lubes as well as cleans just don't go crazy with it
_________________________
Ben
mk2a 60gig green/Greenlights Buttons
mk2a 60gig green/Greenlights Buttons
mk2a 40gig blue no illumination....yet
hijacked
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#147533 - 09/03/2003 10:28
Re: Flakey volume control
[Re: mrfixit]
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member
Registered: 17/05/2002
Posts: 148
Loc: Cape Town, South Africa
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Hi,
I was poking around and found reference to Caig DeoxIT ( http://www.caig.com/) for cleaning them. Apparently also works well!
Regards,
Aragon
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#147534 - 09/03/2003 15:32
Re: Flakey volume control
[Re: MRHJr]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
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While we're on the subject, bring back the volume increments of 2.0b11!!! I severely dislike having to turn the knob 3 revolutions to gain considerable volume. I don't remember there being any change in the volume adjustment between b11 and b13. But if there was, I prefer tight granularity as opposed to speed in changing the volume.
I'd suggest, MRHJr, that you could fix this by putting in a Hijack button mapping.
The proper solution to this would be to adjust acceleration in the volume knob. The faster it's turned, the faster the volume goes up. The slower it's turned, the more granularity you have. As long as I can adjust the volume with the same precision I have now, anything is fine.
One of the unexpected benefits of the empeg was how precisely I could change the volume. On other stereos, I often found that the proper volume was in between two clicks, and I've never had that problem with the empeg.
_________________________
Bitt Faulk
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#147535 - 10/03/2003 10:58
Re: Flakey volume control
[Re: Aragon]
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enthusiast
Registered: 18/01/2002
Posts: 270
Loc: Arizona USA
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BOTH of my MK2a's have had the first issues (reducing volume, or not moving much) since they were new. I figured this was just an artifact of the control.
On another note, my backup empeg has kept correct time (only adding one minute) for a MONTH!
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Elvis
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#147536 - 10/03/2003 12:29
Re: Flakey volume control
[Re: elvis]
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enthusiast
Registered: 14/06/2002
Posts: 337
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Speaking of time, both of my empegs keep the correct time as long as I don't use them in the car, figure that one out.
_________________________
Ben
mk2a 60gig green/Greenlights Buttons
mk2a 60gig green/Greenlights Buttons
mk2a 40gig blue no illumination....yet
hijacked
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#147538 - 10/03/2003 15:49
Re: Flakey volume control
[Re: wfaulk]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 08/07/1999
Posts: 5546
Loc: Ajijic, Mexico
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The proper solution to this would be to adjust acceleration in the volume knob. The faster it's turned, the faster the volume goes up
I think that is how it works now.
tanstaafl.
_________________________
"There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch"
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#147540 - 10/03/2003 22:15
Re: Flakey volume control
[Re: wfaulk]
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journeyman
Registered: 04/09/1999
Posts: 74
Loc: CA
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I can't say for sure, it was either between beta 7 to 11 or 11 to 13.
There was a patch made by the empeg boys to handle flaky volume control. It was this patch I believe made it into b11, but was changed back in b13.
My history: problems before patch, no problems after patch, problems again after change in beta 13. Of couse I could be talking out my rear.
_________________________
Mk2 #105 60g
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#147541 - 29/05/2003 07:23
Re: Flakey volume control
[Re: MRHJr]
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journeyman
Registered: 06/03/2002
Posts: 70
Loc: Tucson, AZ USA
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I am having problems with this too. I am running 2.0 Final and the latest hijack. Any ideas on a way to correct this? I am tired of turning the volume "down" and having the empeg BLAST it way up.
Thanks,
_________________________
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RioCar 60gb
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#147542 - 29/05/2003 09:42
Re: Flakey volume control
[Re: sirmanson]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 23/08/2000
Posts: 3826
Loc: SLC, UT, USA
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I've had this problem for a long time too... and the only real solution is to replace the rotary controller. Apparently Support has a few dozen replacements, but i haven't recieved a response for weeks. There's a discussion of the part number in this thread, but no difinitive answer has been given as to the part number... just the manufacturer.
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#147543 - 29/05/2003 13:46
Re: Flakey volume control
[Re: loren]
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member
Registered: 17/05/2002
Posts: 148
Loc: Cape Town, South Africa
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I'm also looking for a replacement. In fact maybe two to be safe. Have also mailed support.
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#147544 - 29/05/2003 23:29
Re: Flakey volume control
[Re: elvis]
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enthusiast
Registered: 07/01/2002
Posts: 274
Loc: Stockport, UK
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Interesting ....
For all the glories of the empeg user interface, for me the volume control is one of the unsung heroes.
I can jump 50+ dB just by the briefest-single-gesture spin of the dial. Rarely do I have to make any fine adjustments beyond that to get the volume just-so. Being in a RH drive car may help though
Shame the tuner volume control is not so intuitive 
_________________________
A coward you are, an expert on bulls you are not.
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#147545 - 09/06/2003 09:37
Re: Flakey volume control
[Re: loren]
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member
Registered: 17/05/2002
Posts: 148
Loc: Cape Town, South Africa
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I received a reply to my support email from Rob. He has spares but asked for money via Paypal. Paypal doesn't work from my country. Anyone know of alternatives?
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#147546 - 09/06/2003 10:38
Re: Flakey volume control
[Re: Aragon]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 21/05/1999
Posts: 5335
Loc: Cambridge UK
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I thought anyone could pay via PayPal using a credit card?
Rob
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#147547 - 09/06/2003 11:15
Re: Flakey volume control
[Re: rob]
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member
Registered: 17/05/2002
Posts: 148
Loc: Cape Town, South Africa
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No, it is restricted to certain countries only.. or rather to credit cards issued by financial institutes in certain countries only.
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#147548 - 09/06/2003 14:10
Re: Flakey volume control
[Re: Aragon]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 29/08/2000
Posts: 14488
Loc: Canada
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International postal money order, perhaps
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#147549 - 09/06/2003 14:13
Re: Flakey volume control
[Re: mlord]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 15/08/2000
Posts: 4859
Loc: New Jersey, USA
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If you don't mind my asking, how much are we talking about? $10? $100? $1,000? It might be far easier just to arrange for some kind of trade with someone who has a paypal account they can send from.
_________________________
Paul Grzelak
200GB with 48MB RAM, Illuminated Buttons and Digital Outputs
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#147550 - 09/06/2003 14:22
Re: Flakey volume control
[Re: mlord]
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member
Registered: 17/05/2002
Posts: 148
Loc: Cape Town, South Africa
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Thanks. I will ask Rob S. when he replies to my last mail.
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#147551 - 09/06/2003 14:24
Re: Flakey volume control
[Re: pgrzelak]
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member
Registered: 17/05/2002
Posts: 148
Loc: Cape Town, South Africa
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I think they're $10 each and I'd like to try get two.
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#147552 - 09/06/2003 14:35
Re: Flakey volume control
[Re: Aragon]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31584
Loc: Seattle, WA
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I think they're $10 each and I'd like to try get two. <AOL mode> Me too! </AOL mode>
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#147553 - 10/06/2003 09:06
Re: Flakey volume control
[Re: tfabris]
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journeyman
Registered: 06/03/2002
Posts: 70
Loc: Tucson, AZ USA
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I definately need at least one. I'm sick of trying to turn something down and getting blasted out of the seat.
_________________________
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RioCar 60gb
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#147554 - 12/06/2003 12:14
Re: Flakey volume control
[Re: tfabris]
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old hand
Registered: 28/01/2002
Posts: 970
Loc: Manassas VA
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Count me in as well... mine is acting simply freakish..
_________________________
Brett
60Gb MK2a with Led's
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#147555 - 12/06/2003 12:24
Re: Flakey volume control
[Re: lopan]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31584
Loc: Seattle, WA
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I'm wondering if additional software corrections could compensate for the problems some of us are having with the volume knob.
Mine usually behaves itself just fine, except when I'm trying to turn it very slowly and carefully exactly one click louder. Then, a tiny bit of noise from the contact, and the player shoots from -20db all the way up to 0db in an instant. That can't be right, we should be able to debounce that in software.
Anyone?
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#147556 - 12/06/2003 12:28
Re: Flakey volume control
[Re: tfabris]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
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My only problem is that sometimes the physical clicks become disconnected from the logical clicks. The most common occurance of this is when I'm trying to go one click up slowly and nothing happens, so I move it another click and two occur at once, and the speed with which those two happen often throws it into acceleration mode, and the logical change will be well more than one. This happens most often in the menus and not in volume, but that's probably just because I'm attempting to be precise in the menus more often.
_________________________
Bitt Faulk
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#147557 - 12/06/2003 12:35
Re: Flakey volume control
[Re: tfabris]
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old hand
Registered: 28/01/2002
Posts: 970
Loc: Manassas VA
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maybe a patch? Something to fix that and the scanning problem in tuner mode would rock...
_________________________
Brett
60Gb MK2a with Led's
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#147558 - 12/06/2003 13:14
Re: Flakey volume control
[Re: lopan]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 29/08/2000
Posts: 14488
Loc: Canada
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The knob is handled almost completely in kernel space (eg. Hijack), so if anyone out there would like to redo the code for it, source is available to us all!
Cheers
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#147559 - 12/06/2003 15:55
Re: Flakey volume control
[Re: mlord]
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journeyman
Registered: 06/03/2002
Posts: 70
Loc: Tucson, AZ USA
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That would be awsome! As well as saving quite a few of us from replacing our knobs.
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RioCar 60gb
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#147560 - 13/06/2003 00:19
Re: Flakey volume control
[Re: mlord]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 12/01/2002
Posts: 2009
Loc: Brisbane, Australia
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The knob is handled almost completely in kernel space (eg. Hijack)
If that's the case then why does the Hijack menu respond to turning the knob so much better than the the volume control, menus etc?
It would appear there is some other extra debouncing in the player software though. I remember seeing something about the knob being debounced in player software before I even got my empeg. Or am I making this up?
_________________________
Christian
#40104192 120Gb (no longer in my E36 M3, won't fit the E46 M3)
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#147561 - 13/06/2003 06:12
Re: Flakey volume control
[Re: Shonky]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31584
Loc: Seattle, WA
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Good question, Shonky. I personally don't notice the knob behaving any differently in the player software than in the Hijack menu, though, can you describe the differences you notice?
I had another "experience" with the volume knob yesterday that I wanted to share and wondered if anyone else had seen the same thing.
- I was trying to turn the volume from about -30 up to -10.
- I turned the knob quickly, to reach into the teens.
- As I got closer to my goal of -10, I slowed my rate of turn.
- At -10.50, I slowed my rate of turn so that I was carefully and gently trying to get that "one last click" to get it to -10.00.
- As that last click was happening, it shot past -10, all the way up to 0db and I was blasted.
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#147562 - 13/06/2003 06:18
Re: Flakey volume control
[Re: tfabris]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31584
Loc: Seattle, WA
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Here's another question...
Recently, I started having trouble with the analog joystick on one of the Nintendo Gamecube controllers. Not wanting to buy another one, I dismantled the controller, desoldered the analog X/Y potentiometer assembly, dismantled the troubled potentiometer, cleaned it carefully with isopropyl alcohol, reassembled, and resoldered. The joystick works like it was brand new again.
Does anyone know what the innards of the empeg's rotary encoder are like? Is it possible that it would benefit from a similar procedure?
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#147563 - 13/06/2003 13:17
Re: Flakey volume control
[Re: tfabris]
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journeyman
Registered: 06/03/2002
Posts: 70
Loc: Tucson, AZ USA
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My Empeg does this all of the time. I have noticed the same behaviour in Hijack (modifying left right delay)
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RioCar 60gb
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#147564 - 13/06/2003 18:41
Re: Flakey volume control
[Re: tfabris]
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Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 08/02/2002
Posts: 3411
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Does anyone know what the innards of the empeg's rotary encoder are like? Is it possible that it would benefit from a similar procedure
I haven't looked, but I'd have to wonder whether it's worth it. Every time you de-/re- solder the encoder you are risking potential damage to the display board. I'd hate to go through the motions only to discover that my cleaning wasn't good enough and that I had to replace it anyway. For $10 it's probably worth just replacing it to start with. If it were a $40 part then it'd be a different matter. If it is possible to easily dismantle the encoder without desoldering it first (doubtful), then perhaps it's worth a shot.
_________________________
Mk2a 60GB Blue. Serial 030102962
sig.mp3: File Format not Valid.
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#147565 - 15/06/2003 15:40
Re: Flakey volume control
[Re: tfabris]
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addict
Registered: 16/08/1999
Posts: 453
Loc: NRW, Germany
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Mike has debounce software in there, and it does work reasonably well. My knob has also got worse and worse over time. The shaft has become quite sloppy in the housing and you can change its behaviour by adding a little sideways pressure to the knob/shaft (I have a mk 2, not a 2a). I have an originaly replacement pot., but I am considering fitting a mk 2a unit as the quality is supposed to be much better. The only problem there is that the original is surface mount and the mk 2a unit is thru hole. In my case software is no use at all, it is definitely a hardware problem, and I think some of you may be starting to see the same problem too.
Cheers
Derek
_________________________
(list 6284, Mk1 S/N 00299 4GB blue [sold]. Mk2 S/N 080000094 20GB blue)
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#147566 - 15/06/2003 19:55
Re: Flakey volume control
[Re: tfabris]
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addict
Registered: 24/08/2000
Posts: 658
Loc: India
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Does anyone know what the innards of the empeg's rotary encoder are like?
Not sure about the players exact makeup, but plan to soon for mine is getting very erratic as well. Most are either a metal slider contacting a graphite base or all metal contacts with some grease. From what I've noticed taking things apart over the years is a paste is formed between the contacts and your alcohol removed this. The noise comes from signal making small arcs from searching for a contact path.
Edited by jwickis (15/06/2003 21:16)
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#147567 - 15/06/2003 20:57
Re: Flakey volume control
[Re: jwickis]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31584
Loc: Seattle, WA
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Derek and Jwickis, thanks for this information. It's very enlightenting.
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