One of the things you said made me stop and think. You said I'm on a witch hunt. This is an interesting analogy, and I hope it's not true.

Ugg, metaphors. Anyhow, plain and simple, here is the reason many people here had a problem with your actions:

You have done similar things in the past to show off. No harm was done by the hosting trick, but it was made clear that it, and similar actions are not wanted here. Want to explore the powers of your new found HTML/scripting knowledge? Do it on your own equipment, and not the BBS used by hundreds of people. Point us to your work in an Off Topic post, instead of forcing people to see it by putting it at the end of threads in the general fourm.

I had a similar incident once at work. I learned about Code Red, and accidently made it look like I was trying to attack a few sites on the internet. This was red flagged in the proxy logs (the source of the problem was my proxy was set and the request ran out the private network gateway). Anyhow, I got contacted by some pretty high up people because of the red flags set off. I appologized. Why? Well even though I had no intent on causing harm, I made it appear that way, and I wasted IT resources tracking it down. I did something wrong, and I should have been a bit more careful to ensure the test machines settings were set to limit traffic to the test network. Had I kept the additude of you in this empegbot situation, I would have been out of a job.

Also, to discourage any thoughts you might have of "revenge", just keep in mind it will probably be the FBI contacting you if any computer laws are broken. And DoS and other similar simple attacks are against the law. They are very good at their job when it comes to issues on the internet, and you don't want to deal with them on the receiving end of an investigation. I've worked with them in the past being a sysadmin who had a machine used to bounce some hacks off of.

Want to explore the powers of your new found HTML/scripting knowledge? Do it on your own equipment

Or better yet, try it on some other online user community and see how long their admins tolerate it. The fact that we're even allowing you to state your case here says something, I think.

It does indeed. I was actually surprised that you pointed out he was back instead of just blocking the new username and or IP/Domain range.

Drakino is quite right... Attitude is really everything. If I bump into someone at the mall I say excuse me. There was nothing intentional or even harmful to apologize for. If I'm going to do that for a complete stranger how much more should I be willing to do it for a community of people that I have something in common with and are willing to put up with my insanely basic questions.

In short if you would ere on the side of graciousness instead of correctness this would cease to be an issue.

I was actually surprised that you pointed out he was back instead of just blocking the new username and or IP/Domain range.

Figured it would be OK to give him a chance to see what was going on, and perhaps give him an opportunity to admit wrongdoing and promise he wouldn't pull a stunt like that again. Instead, he refuses to admit he did anything wrong.

Wow, reading the above paragraph, it really does sound like a witch hunt, doesn't it? Okay, let's examine this metaphor a little further...

What were the primary characteristics of the infamous Salem witch trials?

- Salem was a small, tightly-knit community.

- An ergot fungus infection in the town's grain supply caused sickness and strange behavior in some of the members of the community.

- The lack of scientific knowledge about the ergot fungus made the community assume that demonic posession and witchcraft were the causes of the illnesses.

- Certain members of the community were singled out as the source of the witchcraft.

- These accused witches were unable to defend themselves against the accusation, because they were being accused of something that doesn't exist and therefore can't be proved or disproved.

- Some of the accused witches were executed for these nonexistent crimes.

Generally, when someone uses the "witch hunt" metaphor, they're referring to one or more of the following things:

- Someone being used as a scapegoat for a larger unrelated problem.

- Someone being unjustly accused.

- Someone being unable to defend themselves against their accusers.

- Someone being punished just because they're different.

I do see some similarities here, but I'm not sure this situation really qualifies as a witch hunt...

Racoons are generally quiet.

Hah! When I lived in Toronto, I lived near the Don Valley, which is one of few greenways in the city. It doubled as our local mountain biking trail, garbage dump, and racoon breeding ground. These aren't yer ordinary country bumpkin racoons, though -- I've seen those at my parents acreage in Texas. These were urban hoodlums that were consistently about the size of... I was going to say basketball, but that'd be a runt. They were mean, and possibly rabid, too -- it's prudent to cross the street when you see them. I can't begin to count the number of times I heard screaming racoons fighting any domestic animal stupid enough to get close (kinda like Yz33d ) -- more times than I ever heard any of the abundant neighbourhood dogs, anyway.

I hear them playing in my backyard most nights, kind of a loud chittering noise. I don't mind though, they sound like they are having fun. They are cute and not so mean until they reach sexual maturity, that is when they can turn mean. At least that is what I was told by people that raised orphan cubs.

Just thought I should add my opinion...

I fully support Tony's decision for a ban. While I don't know very much about Yz33d, I don't think any of his posts would have affected my opinion here. Many of the other messageboards that I follow are filled with bots, script kiddies, and plain idiots. It makes those boards very difficult to read for the members that actually try to extract valuable information from the mess. After spending a few months with this well-maintained BBS, I have fallen in love (so to speak...) with being able to read a whole thread without any posts of complete crap. In my mind, if someone annoys a good portion of the board's members, they should suffer dire consequences, no matter how they personally feel about what they did. So, Yz33d, even though I know next to nothing about you, I definately feel that you deserve a ban. The last thing I want is to see this wonderful community ruined by a bunch of script-kiddies.

He'd just write a script to [write his lines] for him.

You know, I once got away with this very thing back in grade seven. We had a daisy wheel printer, so it wasn't a dot matrix printout that might have given the game away. I didn't even have to write the program -- my brother had done the same thing a couple months before...

One of the few times a computer has been a labour saving device in my life, I think...

>Say you see a guy with a gun in a holster. Sure there exists the
>possibility that he might get bored and just decide to deliberately
>shoot you, but it isn't that likely...

Problem is that you took the gun out of the holster, started waving it around, and took a few pot-shots above everyone's head...how was Tony to know if you might start aiming lower?

"Attitude is really everything. If I bump into someone at the mall I say excuse me. There was nothing intentional or even harmful to apologize for"

I completely agree. Now imagine you bump into someone at the mall and they turn around and call you a fucking bastard. Then are you gonna feel much like apologizing? If Tony would have just asked me not to use the bot and told me why, then I would've apologized.

You could appologize to everyone BUT Tony or at least PaulH if that's the case. You bumped into everyone, not just the person that called you out on it.

"Problem is that you took the gun out of the holster, started waving it around, and took a few pot-shots above everyone's head...how was Tony to know if you might start aiming lower? "

Well I didn't mean it to be like that. I meant it to be more like "hey, look at this cool gun I got".

Certainly if I would have known that many of you would see this harmless (in my opinion) bot as bloody murder, then I never would have posted it here. The whole thing was a joke, meant to make people laugh, everything right down to the profile. And personally, I think if Tony wouldn't have overreacted (once again, in my opinion), then I sincerely think nobody would have had a problem with it. I think when one highly respected member of a community has an opinion, people tend to mindlessly agree with it without thinking for themselves.
I think if someone like _yn0t would have made the bot, then Tony Fabris and many others would have just laughed at it and then forgot about it. But the snowball starts rolling down the hill and the witch hunt commences and it gets blowed way out of proportion and now I am being prosecuted for something I didn't even commit (3,000 posts). I hear Minority Report is good.

You said you don't want to be here any more. Why are you still here defending yourself?

Argh, drop the metaphors...

Back to the specific point. You did something that most people here thought was wrong. That ended, everyone returned to the normal posts. A short time later, a similar issue arrises in the general fourm, and again the source of it is the same person. In this case, you. This was the second major incident on the BBS, people disapproved of the random posts, and Tony F. as an active admin, did something about it. The incident again crossed the line of abuse of the BBS on a technical level, so a ban was put into place to prevent it.

Had Tony C (yn0t) for some bizarre reason decided to break his normal mold and try the same thing, I am sure he would have been met with the same initial reaction you got to the web hosting incident. Had Tony C then continued on this path, while also doing an assorted amount of other minor things to irritate some of the users here; then caused another major incident, he would also be banned.

THIS WAS NOT YOUR FIRST, SECOND, OR THIRD INCIDENT HERE!!! Instead it was another one to add to the list, and another one to go without an appology. Since it was unknown at the time what the bot was going to do, and the potential existed for even worse annoyances, the ban was the right thing to do. The sooner you understand these simple facts, the sooner things might return to normal here, with or without you.

What is right and wrong changes wherever you go. Most of the time this is unspoken, and that is true here. It is a caring, useful, and productive BBS. What may seem right elsewhere for some reason might not be here. Your stunts are not welcome here, and you have been told this several times. Drop it, accept the facts, and move on.

Sorry to be so blunt. But it seems like it is the only way to talk about this situation without it getting off track.

I don't believe right and wrong changes wherever you go.

And one fact you are over looking is that if I wanted to attack the BBS then I would have done it. Just like if a police officer wanted to shoot you then he would. Or if God wanted you dead then you wouldn't be breathing right now. My point is, don't blame someone for something they didn't commit but were only capable of committing. Otherwise, you'd have to accuse your father of raping you as a child. Afterall, he had the ability to do it and probably could've gotten away with it, but he didn't do it.

Wow, this must be one of the fastest growing threads on this bbs.

What i don't understand is why we all can't just get along. I find spam to be annoying, but this one incident didn't get out of control. In my mind, i think at this rate somebody might change Yz33d's code and crash this bbs. I think some kind of resolution needs to be figured out quick, before this gets escalated to the next level.

This bbs is the greatest thing that could have happened to our empegs, please don’t let a select few wreck it for the rest of us!

That’s just my 2 cents, I’ve been reading this tread for a bit now, and just thought I should post a thought. It is late, so please allow spelling mistakes

I don't believe right and wrong changes wherever you go.

Then thats a problem you will have to live with for the rest of your life. It's the truth. Things I do at home that are acceptable may not be at work. Eating a cow in certain countries is wrong. Doing immature scripting stunts here is wrong. Doing it again is still wrong, and worse then the first time. Plain and simple.

I am blaming you for something you did do, and that is the undenyable and provable. I am not however blaming you for a mass spam attack on the BBS, as that never happened. You created a bot that annoyed users of this BBS. This annoyed people even before an admin caught word of it. What you did was wrong, plain and simple.

You are commiting the same mistakes you have in the past. You argue a point, but half assed. You search for exactly the one word you want and turn it into the subject, ignoring everything else around it, including the actual meat of the discussion. Did you not see the big capital letters in my earlier post highlighting my main point? Or are you simply choosing to ignore it, figuring that somehow everyone else will as well?

I'm done with this thread. It's wasting my time for no reason. I hope for your sake that you gain wisdom here shortly. You despratly need it, and your life would be much easier with it. Unfortunatly you seem doomed to the same self torture that so many people put themselved into for their entire lives. Sad really, but sometimes there is nothing anyone can do to change it.

Well, it's ironic that I can turn every single point you make around and apply it to you. No, I don't think making 5 posts is wrong. I don't think I'll be doomed to hell for it. So far, nothing you have said has convinced me of it. You can make all the personal insults you want, but I still stand by everything I have said.

I must admit that i don't think that y/dz33d has done anything to try and destroy the board pissed a few folk off yes but not a concerted effort to wreck anything.

Yes i did find the random posts mildly amusing but i am glad to see the back of it.

Can we just draw this to a close let him back in under his old name.


AND Y/DZ33D DON'T DO IT AGAIN

If you want to learn about scripting etc try and write a few programs for your empeg i am sure there is folk here that might help you.

I know; that's why I said what I said. It wasn't that hard to figure out anyway...

My take on it is that he should have asked for permission, or used another bbs (or mock up site) for testing. However, even with what he did do, it doesn't constitute a full permanent ban. In fact, I feel that the remarks about him in this thread are probably punishment enough.

The point is _not_ what you could have done, but what you did.
You annoyed this community again and again, have been told to stop your stupid stunts again and again, and now annoyed this community again using an automated attack. And since you have been warned to not do such stupid things again, it doesn't matter that you intended it as a joke.
The potential that this very same approach could have been used for a DoS attack only made it worse. The ban was and is a fair penalty, even if the approach couldn't be used for a DoS attack.
And you still didn't apologize to anyone.

cu,
sven

Greetings!

Agreed. I really do not think there is anything to be gained by banning him, as long as he agrees not to run the bot against the forums again. I think the issue has moved from the bot itself. In fact, there might be something useful the bot can do - in the Off Topic forum, create a random generated oracle, where people with the time and desire can post questions and have them answered in a humorous random way.

As to the metaphors and attitudes, I think it is a little out of hand at the moment.

I do not think any damage was done, nor did anything really get out of hand. yz33d did irritate a lot of people, but was it because of the bot, or because of his opinions / attitude?

I also think that it is not possible to ban him technically without injuring other users. The IP block that he is coming from is registered as a large broadband ISP (BellSouth). Blocking the small range that was already set up will not be enough, because it does not cover their entire DHCP range. Also, blocking that range may impact other BBS users in that region. Plus, at best, it is a hollow threat. Someone who really wanted to would re-route the traffic or come in from another ISP. Given that this is a privately run board located in a publicly accessible area, there is no truely effective way to block a user that specifically wants to get back in. I don't have that much experience with BBS software, so please correct me if I am wrong.

I agree with thinfourth2 in that the incident should be closed. I know yz33d does not see any problem with what he did - I hope he understands that it annoyed a lot of people and will not repeat it for that reason, if for no other.

Oh, he didn't do anything wrong. It was just a bot. Before that it was just an abuse of the file attachment function. Not to mention a whole bunch of other things.

The thing you're not seeing is that he's worsening in his behavior. Sure, we tolerated some bad statements. Then we all let him have his opinion on mental illness. Then we forgave him without any reprecussions for the file attachment function. Then he goes and lets loose a bot on the board? Come on, doesn't anyone who is defending him see a pattern?

He keeps saying that it's due to his newly gained knowledge that he tries these things. I would never do such a thing, and neither would anyone here. I'm just learning JS and Perl and a whole lot of new stuff, but I wouldn't use it in a way that would hurt the board at all.

"Now imagine you bump into someone at the mall and they turn around and call you a * *. Then are you gonna feel much like apologizing?"

I would, but that's just me.

I've read enough of your posts to know you won't change your mind on this, but I wish you'd understand that this isn't about politics or ideaology. This is about real people who really care about this bbs. It may be in a way you don't understand, it may be over something you can't believe. I'm sorry for that, but please try and understand that whether you ment to or not, your actions have caused others on this board to become angry, and whether or not you realize it, most of them here are pretty tolerant when it comes to other opinions. I have never in my life been able to disagree with others so fundamentaly and then go on to discuss other things with no love lost. Yet some of the members here do have a problem with the things you've done. If you have any respect for what this board stands for, consider that real people have been effected by your actions, not because your ideas or feelings tell you, but because the people themselves are telling you.

The sad thing here is that I am guessing that you could be forgiven, if it was what you wanted. You seek to be right, but (as I find with my wife all the time) rightness in the end doesn't matter if people got hurt. You keep saying that people disagree with your political views, but that isn't their problem with your words. Their problem is the WAY you argue. Now again you make your points with hostility instead of taking others into account.

I'm sorry for just adding one more post, but like others I suppose I can't read all of this and not react.

Hey, if you go on a which hunt what do you use as a witch call? Make the sound of broomsticks, perhaps

pca

Greetings!

You misunderstand. I do not agree with his actions at all, and this is not the place to experiment with new skills. It is not up to me to decide if he should be banned from the board based on his previous actions. There is no question - the owners / administrators of the board will decide if his actions warrant banning. I just do not think it would be effective, that's all.

Normally, I would agree with you, but what I was trying to get across is that his actions are getting worse with more potential for harm, and it's probably safer to get him out of here. But like you said, that's not our call.

Maybe one of those "Chant" CDs, Mike Oldfield's "Tubular Bells" or perhaps Carl Orff's "Carmina Burana - O Fortuna"