I will say that I misspoke a bit -- The problem with the Sun plugin (aside from the horrible startup time) is that a lot of people wrote applets that depend on MS's VM (idiosyncrosies of the VM, etc). For instance, the retarded bug tracking system our company uses requires the MSVM... Don't ask me why. So I can never turn on Sun's. However, having a 1.4 plugin is nice (builtin Swing). In fact, if I ever do an applet on-Empeg version of jEmplode, it will likely require 1.2+ plugin.